MrBrown

You guys are tough!!! It hurts just reading about it! OUCH!!!

I agree with Wish and I'm glad that Chef23 brought up the gates. Remember,.... "What you start with in the course is what you will end with in the course." The reason I previously asked about Robbie's GATE PULL OUT and TURN IN POINT is because if he is turning in for his gates too late, the excess load on the ski and on his body will force Robbie to crush a bit to be able to hold the excess cross course angle. So if even if Robbie is attempting to STAND TALL, he won't be able to. As he is turning in, the excess load will force Robbie to bend his knees and drop into a lower more leveraged position, in an attempt to maintain proper cross course angle in an attempt to make the gates. As Robbie is approaching the wakes, the excess load is too great and is standing Robbie up prematurely. So his work zone is from the buoy to the first wake, instead of the ideal, through the wakes. If Robbie were to pull out wider on the boat for his turn in for his gates, and then would turn in at the same point, this may only give Robbie more Load/Width/Speed cross course which would be undesirable. 3 point pull out for the gates (off Schnitz’s website ) 1) Initiate pullout when the right 55 green buoy, is at the nose of the boat 2) (this step is a little advanced) Quit pulling out when the 3 ball crosses over the left hand gate buoy. Maintain width just inside 2,4,6 3) Turn in for the gates when the 1 ball is just past the left hand gate buoy, (point the ski just inside the right hand gate buoy and go) At first, to demonstrate this to Robbie, I would first jump in the boat with Robbie and attempt to show Robbie this perspective from the sitting in the boat and repeat it a few times so Robbie knows what points to look for while skiing. This will save a lot of wasted passes on the ski. By turning in earlier with these points, the load on the ski and on the body is much, much, less which will allow Robbie to stand tall, and to maintain a stacked position through the course. With this narrower path through the course, it will be even more important for Robbie to keep both hands on the handle longer, to maintain better handle control, which will provide better width and a tight line. Here are two photos of Dave Miller and Todd Johnson at 39off, at the Big Dawg Finals 2010.(courtesy Schnitz!) - Notice the turn in points for their gates. -notice how far back the water is being displacebefore the completion of the turn in for their gates, revealing where they actually started edge-changing for the turn in for the gate.

Very talented skier. With just a little work, he will pick up a whole pass and a lot more. He is standing nice and tall right before the turn in for the gates which is nice! As he is turning in for the gates and at the end of every turn, he is dropping his hips away from the boat and rolling the ski too far up on edge. This is causing him to have separation (elbows are not locked to the vest) and to start leading with the shoulders. He is also loading too soon out of the turn. (pulling on the rope too soon) This is why he is getting pulled up by the boat to soon through the wakes. His work zone is right off the buoy to the first wake, instead of through the wakes. (I think concentrating about having more weight on his front foot would make matters worse. He needs to get stacked better and the proper weight distribution will take care of itself. ) He is noticeably more separated out of 1, 3, 5 and is dropping his hips and butt away more. (weak side pull) - This is causing him to overturn the ski slightly. - This is causing him to load to hard out of the buoy, and to be flat cross course, and to be leading with the shoulders more through the wakes. - This is causing a dangerous wake crossing. - This is also putting excess strain on his back! He needs to work on executing the proper body position on Dry Land First!!! (Dry Land Training Videos Part 1.2.3, especially if his back is already bothering him!!!) -stand tall (knees slightly bent) -vest to the elbows (low anchor point) -chest out -shoulders back -hips up -arms straight -handle in the pocket/power By having this correct body position, this will help to prevent the dropping the hips away at the end of the turn and will help to prevent the overturning that is going on. - He will then have a smoother hook up with the boat out of the turn, and will then start to have a progressive pull cross course. -He will then move his work zone/pulling phase from "the buoy to the first wake" that is happening now, to "through the wakes". - He should just attempt to keep on "turning the ski all the way to the second wake" while maintaining this correct body position, and then the work zone will naturally then be between the wakes. Also, what are his points (if any) for.......... -his pullout for the gates -his turn in for the gates -before each turn buoy while in the course? Once again, he is a very talented and strong skier. With just a little work, he could be knocking out some big scores!! Great job!!! Im impressed!

Schnitz always has great ways of explaining techniques and principles. Schnitz said instead of thinking about "locking the elbows to the vest" think about "locking the vest to the elbows" or "bringing the vest to the elbows". This is a great point. This "bring the vest to the elbows" can only be accomplished by standing tall, with your hips forward, shoulders back, as you bring your "vest to your elbows" (elbows to the vest), with your arms straight. I have seen some skiers have a problem with the "elbows to the vest" technique when trying it for the first time. Many times, they will bend their arms and pull in on the handle in an attempt to "lock their elbows to the vest". This is incorrect! Having the arms absolutely straight at all times is CRITICAL. Even a slight bend can cause a skier to start to "lead with the shoulders" which will flatten the ski out cross course, causing a skier to be fast and narrow into the next buoy, causing a poor edge change and poor turn. The "handle in the pocket/power triangle" is a RESULT of having a "low anchor point" as T$ stated. A "low anchor point" is a RESULT of how well a skier has his "elbows locked to the vest" with his arms totally straight, when he hooks up for the pulling phase out of the turn. If the skier does not have his "elbows locked the vest" and does not have a "low anchor point", then the skier will experience........... - slight separation, causing him to be leading with his shoulders slightly (this is a "high anchor point" as T$ mentioned) - causing poor body position out of the buoy - poor acceleration, - loss of cross course speed - loss of cross course angle One other point that needs to be mentioned along with "locking the elbows to the vest", is how to "engage your core" before you pick up the pull of the boat. Many top skiers engage their cores automatically and consciously while other skiers have no clue. Water skiing is a "core intensive sport", and a skier needs to know how to "engage his core" and how to strengthen his core to ski better and stronger, and to prevent career threatening injuries. In the Dry Land Training Video (part 1), you will hear it mentioned about engaging the core muscles as the skier is "locking the elbows to the vest". You engage the core through a slight exhale of the breathe, as you flex your abs. You flex your abs just as though someone is about to punch you in the stomach. With your abs flexed, you still should be able to talk lightly. If you can't talk, this means that you only have pressure in the abdomen and don't really have the core engaged. Throughout the course, you should only have light breathing as you are engaging the core. Any deep breaths in and out will disengage the core. The very most important time to really flex the abs and engage the core (like you’re going to get punched in the stomach) is right before you pick up the pull of the boat out of the turn. Your core muscles a have to be engaged before the secondary muscle groups (arms and legs) can be engaged. The faster you can engage your core muscles, the faster you can engage your secondary muscle groups. The stronger your core muscles, the stronger your secondary muscle groups will be, and the stronger you will be in the course. When the core is engaged and the secondary muscle groups are engaged, when you pick up the pull of the boat it is as though you are made out of steel and you are locked into a strong pulling position. There is no lost energy by the body bending and giving into the pull of the boat in any way. All this energy then catapults you cross course almost effortlessly while you are maintaining a great skiing position. You could also wear a weight lifting belt as a reminder to stand tall and to engage your core. This will also help to give you some support until your core is stronger. Just be ready for "sore abs" when first attempting this technique!

Good points! Jumpers actually cheat at keeping their elbows to the vest!!! Its called a sling! Otherwise they would be recieving more of the pull of the boat through the upper body, and leading more with their shoulders, instead of through their center of mass. This would possibly cause a dangerous Out the Front crash. The slalom ski actually turns easier and quicker with less knee bend than with more knee bend. I used to think that the opposite was true. I also used to also think you need to bend your knees in rough water, which isn't true either. You really don't gain any huge benefits by excessive knee bend,... and the drawbacks are huge! -slower acceleration out of the buoy because of more ski riding in the water, forcing you to ski a wider/faster path -easier to overturn the ski -easier to have trailing hips -easier to have the elbows seperated from the vest -easier to recieve the pull of the boat through the shoulders and to "lead with the shoulders" -easy to put unnecessary strain on the back -the legs fatigue quickly, causing a possible "buckling effect" -better chance of an "Out the Front" The strength levels that Asher, Jamie, and Brown have to be able to ski with bent knees isn't duplicatable for most skiers. Especially for those who only ski 6 months out of the year. I think that "slightly bent" is what Rossi and Parrish recommend and I would have to agree!

Yes Splasheye, great point! But as you increasingly bend your knees, the harder it becomes to keep your hips up and elbows to the vest. You won't see Parish or Rossi bend there knees too much, just slightly. Rossi states that if you have to bend your knees at the end of the turn, then you have turned into too much angle. The taller you stand, the more the hips naturally come forward, allowing your upper body and shoulders to fall away from the boat (that is if your elbows are locked to the vest with your handle low)...........and the more knee bend that you have, more the hips and butt start to trail and the more your shoulders begin to move forward. This position will cause you to "lead with the shoulders" and to get the pull through the shoulders. (if you don't have your elbows locked to the vest) If you have your knees bent too far and try to lock your elbows to the vest (or lock your vest to the elbows) and you also attempt to get your hips up to the handle, as a result, your putting a lot of uncomfortable torque on the body and ankles as your driving your knees forward to get into this position. This will naturally pull your heels up off of the back of the foot bed and displace more weight on the balls of your feet. This weight shift can place more pressure on the front of the ski, forcing more of the front of the ski in the water. This extra friction of more ski riding in the water will slow your acceleration out of the buoy and cross course. Because your acceleration is slower out of the buoy, you then are forced to ski a wider/faster path to get to the next buoy in time. More friction = more drag = more load = more work

This is just another case of some "Old Skool" teachings becoming "New Skool" teachings once again!!! ( I think knees slightly bent! If you bend your knees too much then your butt start to trail, and your elbows can easily get seperated from your vest.)

A video is worth a thousand words (or a thousand ski sets)............ www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzMBIVkQDMU ....and two videos are worth two thousand words (and maybe 5 trips to a ski school)! lol www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kR_CWB7ovo&feature=related