andjules

What's interesting to me is that when Joel first came on the scene several years back, he was wearing a helmet for slalom. On the surface, that may seem like a slow attitude swing from overcautious to undercautious, but I suspect there's a lot more nuance to it in terms of self-knowledge and cost/benefit.

TE WakeNSki outside of Bangkok Boca Laguna on Lake Chapala, south of Guadalajara Haven't been but want to try EntreDosAguas north of Acapulco For me, in the dead of winter, I'm just trying to get some time on the water, meaning (a) I'm probably not in good enough ski shape to take more than 1-2 sets (am I ever!?), and (b) coaching will probably be lost on me, because my consistency will be off (hard to work on a moving target).

We've talked about SP skis before, by Savvas Panteli. Jodi Fisher was skiing on one a year or two ago, and now Jodi is also in the game with his own ski ("Wrapped") which I believe Panteli is also manufacturing. https://www.spwaterskis.com/ https://www.wrappedusa.com/

+1 on the J Craft, a refresh of the 70s/80s flat-bottomed, low-wake, no-spray outboard that dominated the Canadian market.

@KRoundy but that is what they're testing: is there a non-US market for a (after US tariffs) much cheaper boat? We'll see. well-distributed dealer support that's not always true, especially outside the US brand-name engines That's an important difference between cars and ski boats: the engine is not really exclusive to the boat, which means you're not nearly as married to your dealer/boat-brand. The spec/pricing sheet above shows it's just another Indmar. There have to be plenty of boat manufacturers out there with less-than-full production lines. Perhaps that's exactly what's going on here; but again, importantly, for a non-US, tariffed market (giving it a 25% cost advantage — over US-based competitors, in tariffed countries — right out of the gate)

@Than_Bogan I suppose my personal experience is different (but not wildly unusual): I got busy with career (and then parenting) and dropped out of course-skiing by my mid/late 20s. My fitness level dropped. As my son got older and I hit my late-30s, I got more opportunity to get back on the water and see what I could do. I was pleased-as-punch to cut the line @ 34mph.

@sunperch @Horton can you help me understand a little better? I think when most of us men hit our late 30s/early 40s, we're pretty excited to drop to 34mph (with a few exceptions, and generally speaking, the exceptions = very, very hyper-fit/hyper-competitive athletes). At the lower speed, we usually get to shorter line lengths (than we could at 36mph) and most of us find that challenge more fun. And I'm comfortable admitting that I'm no longer the athlete I was at 16, and the lower speed = a marginal-and-welcome drop in intensity. So I'm genuinely curious why this wouldn't be a welcome change for most? Wouldn't an older skier prefer, for example, working on -35 @ 32mph vs working on -32 @ 34?

Classic

@bigtex2011 the Bassett marketing influenced me vividly!

Let me get this straight: you don't have much time or money "In 50 years no one has been injured from hitting the rebar but I do not like it." "I am looking for the fast and dirty solution." Pool noodles over the rebar, secure with cable ties.

@BrennanKMN in my mind, the last non-tournament-focused, family-friendly, affordable DD boat was the Moomba Outback. At least up here in Canada, you could leave the dealership a good 20-25% less than one of the big 3. It worked for a while, but by 2010ish the market for family-friendly DD seemed to be dead.

I think the front half of the boat is gorgeous! Nice design nods to classic 1940s-50s runabouts. That said, not sure how I feel about the rear cockpit layout. Great to see the effort.

I'd be really excited if this thread worked out, but for it to be really useful we'd have to be very careful. 1. @Horton understands how careful and consistent (and in some ways, generalizing) you have to be for comparisons to be useful. I think his reviews should be your first stop (both for reviews and how-to-properly-approach-reviews) because he's the same guy, with the same methodology, trying a whole range of skis over several years and really the only independent guy in the industry writing and publishing those results. 2. I'll caution you that a single summary for "D3 (any of them)" is getting the thread off in the wrong direction, and inviting others to make broad and unuseful generalizations. I've certainly heard knowledgeable skiers speak about meaningful differences between the EVO and NRG. 3. I worry that we all have strong biases and only a very, very few folks on this forum are careful and consistent in forming/evaluating/supporting their opinions objectively (in other words, you can expect a lot of "I've been skiing on lots of Connelly's since 1980 and I think…"). I do like that you've setup some categories that help commenters think objectively, but as @Than_Bogan points out, even different fin and binding settings may make generalizing about a particular ski almost useless.

Calabria had a very good reputation back then for fit-and-finish. I'd also be surprised if it had wood stringers or floors (and if it does, I would expect it was done properly). That said, they built up a wakeboard following but not too much of a skier following. The Calabria would be a niche, unusual ski boat to own at this point, with all the headaches that might go with that. Personally, I wouldn't pay a premium. On the other hand, looking at three 15-25 year old boats (and assuming they all have composite stringers and floors and engines run well), I'd think hard about (i) which one looks like it spent the most time out in the weather (vs stored indoors), and (ii) which one has the most life left in the upholstery. The mechanical stuff is relatively maintainable and replaceable; but a tired and waterlogged or sun-dried hull/cockpit/interior is a pain to restore.

+1 I'd love to know too; occasionally in town for family events

@vtmecheng I re-read your original post. For background, I'm a former Sunsetter LXI owner and lover. However, depending on the used market in your neighbourhood, I second @ToddF's point: most people don't talk about the Moomba Outback, but it's a great family oriented boat that skis just fine through 35 off+. It's above average in terms of rough water, avoiding water over the bow, high freeboard, etc. And typically cheap enough that you can get into a 5-years newer boat for a price comparable to an older SN/MC/Malibu. The Supra was a great slalom boat for it's era (I believe the Legacy is just a light update of the classic TS6M); if I recall it's very flat-bottomed at the back + low-nose angle (not great in rough water).

@Orlando76 I think most of us (except maybe @Stevie Boy) are overlooking the nuance you're trying to get at about back-to-back passes of extremely-different intensity. That would be interesting to watch, and I think — to a limited extent — there is an intensity level that is appropriate to each pass. My warm-up pass is -22 @ 34mph. When I haven't skied in 2 weeks, I occasionally screw it up by skiing it as if it's -32; more often I screw it up (like I did on my last set) by skiing it as if was -15@32mph (ie. if you get the intensity wrong, it's better to ski too intensely vs too lazily)

Taking @Chef23's comments a little further: when you watch these pros ski -15 @ 28-32mph, you'll notice they often come off their lean around the middle of the wakes, or perhaps just a touch later (@ the 2nd wake). When someone is learning/struggling with -15 @ 28-32mph, they're likely going to require a somewhat longer pull (past the 2nd wake), and — arguably — that's ok for them at that point in their development; it is an appropriate strategy to deal with their lesser ability to hold angle and generate speed. As they get better, they'll transition earlier.

Zero off and re-powers aside, the folks at skidim.com are great for sourcing older parts at reasonable costs.

That said, in my experience, a mid/late 90s Boomerang or an early 80s Mastercraft are great in that speed range (and waaaay less than $20k), but they're tiny boats with tiny interiors.

+ 1 to the idea that your Prostar 190 probably isn't that much worse than whatever has the absolute smallest wake (different story if it was a 205 or X-14, etc.). And it takes a lot of work to sell your current and buy a new one. With the right attitude/approach/communication, the Prostar might actually be an opportunity to help him become a better skier. IIRC, @Bruce_Butterfield has some experience/techniques/philosophy with getting kids through this stage in their development.

Many of us watched the discussions in the World's-Malaysia thread, as well as some of the politics rose to the surface on Facebook in the wake of questionable conditions and multiple injuries — in front of non-existent spectators — at the recent Worlds in Putrajaya. Yesterday, the IWWF tried to make a big deal about some changes, with a new "athlete centric" emphasis. Note that point 3 calls for a 'safe field of play' and admits that "some sites with inappropriate conditions were chosen because the organizer could afford to pay the sanctioning fee". Point 4 calls for more events with prize money (money going back to the athletes). Time will tell if it's lip service or real, but I don't think it's overstating it to say that the loud and passionate discussions on this forum, which included criticism of the IWWF's bidding process/price tag, probably played a small part in these announcements. Thoughts?

It's very fun. Not spacious, not beautifully appointed, not great in rough water. But very fun, both to ski and to drive. Like @LOTW said, at the right price. Fine wake, and particularly good if you have intermediate/younger skiers in your crew that ski at slower speed, e.g. 26-30mph.

@ $34 CAD the price is certainly right. If I had enough water-time to experiment, I'd buy a couple of those, read up on the whisper fin and CG ideas, get out a dremel and start DIY-ing.