Mortyski

@Hipsup the double wing set up works on all fins. What I am trying to do is since the double wing is used to support big skiers on small skis get the much improved turn ability of the Whisper Fin on a large ski. In my case a 71 inch lithium senate. I’m not sure what the ventral wing will do and it is a lot smaller than a normal wing so it will likely not support the weight as much. I had @SkiJay set up my Radar fin with the double wings and I really liked it. Since he is such a guru and the Whisper Fin is now on the market with very positive reviews I want to try it on my 71 inch ski so I can have support and turn ability too. I don’t think the main goal of the ventral fin was support but I don’t know. I’ve never tried a ventral fin and I also don’t know how to set it up. The double wing set up as recommended by @Skijay has the front wing at zero degrees as it’s there for support not braking and the back wing is set less aggressively since there is some unwanted drag from the front wing.

@mike_mapple ...is that blister procedure a joke or is it real...we met your mom and dad at Shalom Park near Edmonton Alberta, we'll never forget how genuine and humble they both were.

@LZywicki1 that truly is an awesome shirt....I want one!

@skialex I agree everything stays in place until that yard sale...but the yard sale is coming if you ski aggressively. This is the only sport I know that typically ends a session with a dramatic failure.

the boat is one generation old as we have a SN 200 now but the lake is the same

@Owurt If you like the watch don't wear it skiing, I believe it's just a matter of time before it gets ripped off your wrist. Also don't put it on the pylon, years ago I ripped the pylon out of the boat, lost the pylon, my watch (a present from my girlfriend now wife), and the rope and handle...I was in the water wondering what just happened so I foolishly let go of the rope. Everyone I have ever know who skis with a watch has lost it. Put it in the glove box and get a heart rate band that has a memory. How will the Apple watch measure speed? Can you maybe put it in a chest strap inside your wetsuit. I think it would have to be a pretty incredible fall to lose something inside the wetsuit, under the life jacket against your chest. Your milage may vary but I have a few buddies doing the Timex torture test on a few watches.

I’m with @oldmanskier too @MarcusBrown I had the distinct pleasure being beat on by Mike Suyderhoud at Lake Shasta for about six or seven years. He was an awesome but tough coach. I would love to hear from him again.

@igkya Hi I have not tried this new set up....I don't have a Whisper Fin yet but plan to assuming I can get my ski back from Montana where we have property and ski. I live in the Calgary area on a lake just east of Calgary and used to ski every day possible on the slalom course we set up in the lake, however that lake is now overcrowded and sadly polluted. I have been working internationally for the last nine years and skied extremely infrequently, last summer for example I did not have a single set. I've probably had 6 sets on the lithium senate and maybe 25 sets in the last nine years but I have skied enough in the past before that to know what a ski should feel like. I ski at 34 mph 28 to 35 off on the lithium senate.... I can't risk an injury so I don't really even try hard anymore and as my three sons say I "drop my purse" a lot. I'm not willing to make the commitment again required for shorter lines at my age. I'm hoping that the Whisper Fin can get the 71 inch to turn quickly and bring me back to the sport again.

@jhughes I haven’t had the Whisper Fin in a course....the lake in front of my place has trucks beside the ice fishing tents...I suspect the water is as smooth as glass (with snow on it). @UWSkier great to hear. I’m really excited about the Whisper Fin. Conventional wisdom has been move the fin forward and the ski turns better...the Whisper Fin is very far forward so maybe I can take the mooring lights off my 71 inch and rip through the course like the good old days...I’m 65 so the good old days were a long long time ago and I need all the help I can get now!

@klindy you're welcome...always glad to help out the "big guy" club

Hello Ballers, I'm stuck in the house like most people, so I started dreaming about water skiing like most people on this forum. As identified on a different thread I own a 71 inch Lithium Senate that I will not trade for a "Sanitized 69 Lithium Senate (COVID-19 free) and my wife’s Apple Pie, you will need to get ice cream, and I will even throw in her ancient family recipe for Hungarian Stuffed Cabbage." I reached out to @SkiJay on his Whisper fin website and got amazing customer service from the man himself. My 31 year old son skis on a Whisper Fin that he loves so my question to Jay was how to configure the Whisper Fin for more "fully grown" people. Jay had already given me the secret to a two-wing configuration that skied great for big guys, but with my son's enthusiasm for the Whisper Fin I wanted to see if that fin would work for me too at 250 lbs on a 71-inch ski. I used to be a decent skier, but time and weight caught up to me. Mike Ferrero once called me the second-best big skier he had ever coached, leaving the number one position for Mike Hazelwood. I'll take that compliment, but those passes I showed Mr. Ferrero at Shalom Park are long gone now, and Mr. Ferrero likely only coached two big skiers LOL. I have attached a photo from Jay himself. This is what he recommended, and he gave me his permission to share this information online. Great customer service I appreciate it Jay. The key points are as identified in my Q&A with Jay are: Both wings in the diagram are standard sized wings, and that usually adds enough additional support. If the skier has one large wing (available from Goode), mount it at the back and run it flat or at a very low angle like 5° or less. Jay is happy to drill the holes for a customer upon request, but it's a simple process. Once the fin is mounted with the front and rear index marks equal, place one side of the wing on the fin so the leading edge is located according to the diagram, mark the front hole with a pencil then drill it with a 3/16" bit. Mount the wing on the fin using the front hole, then mark the rear hole so the wing is parallel with the base of the ski. Remove the wing and drill the rear hole with a 1/4" bit (to allow for some adjustment). Screw the wing on parallel to the ski's base and you're done. The diagram shows the back wing mounted at about 9°. This is excessive below 35 off. Normally, a double wing setup adds enough drag that both wings should be run as close to 0° as possible. Most big skiers don't need the braking effect of a steep wing anyway. Only use more than 0° of rear wing angle if you are generating lots of width and are too fast into every turn. The bindings should be mounted as far forward as possible, unless the tip isn't supportive enough when fully engaged (very rarely the case). The way Jay explained it to me is: When a skier is heavier than the weight range recommended for a ski, the narrow tail gets overloaded and runs too deep in the water. Remember how we put the brakes on when approaching the dock too fast: we dig the ski's tail deeper into the water to slow down. The goal of running a double wing setup is to give the tail of the ski more surface area and lift, allowing the ski to run flatter through the water. This lower tip attitude increases the ski's overall surface area and support, reduces drag for easier acceleration, and allows the ski to track and turn more within its designed performance envelope. I'm not taking any credit for the details here; I'm an engineer and loved tweaking fins and bindings in the past but now I'm only smart enough to know who to ask...thanks again Jay I'm looking forward to giving this a go, when the snow melts and the lakes aren't frozen or locked out over the virus. Stay healthy everyone! Mortyski

@ballsohard with two wings the ski glided better and did not stall or lose elevation at the turn apex. The two wings did not seem to hinder the turn ability of the ski. You don’t need a lot of angle on the back wing so keep it quite neutral. I’ve asked @SkiJay a lot of questions about big guys on Whisper fins. He has been kind enough to give me details and permission to share the information. Stay tuned

@MarcusBrown great interview with one of my all time heroes. Thanks for sharing it with us.

Here's a picture of how to mount a ventral on the WhisperFin. The red circle is the critical part. If you mounted a second wing with its leading edge in the same place, you'd not affect the performance properties of the WhisperFin.

Oops anyone know who makes the sawed off wing*

Ok all you big boys @SkiJay was very kind to respond to my question about Whisper Fin and double wings. He sent me this photo indicating great success with this set up. I’m looking forward to trying it this summer if I can get to Montana to get my ski. Anyone one who makes the sawed off front wing?

@A_B and @JayG80 and @UWSkier

@SkiJay has anyone used the double wings on your Whisper Fin? Seems to me if you did you would have to drill some extra holes for the horizon front fin

I’m in Canada. Skiing is in the USA so I don’t know how the border crossing will go

Thanks @JayG80 That double wing set up sounds familiar I can’t remember the exact dimensions though

@JayG80 I have the Fin Whispering book too (autographed) ....my son skis at Predator Bay and Jay is there from time to time so we get a chance to talk to him. He suggested a two fin set up for me. My prized 71 inch Lithium Senate is in Montana and I'm in Calgary so it's difficult to get a photo for you at this time. The second fin seems to support my fully grown size. I've seen @A_B ski and he can rip so I suspect he wants the 71 inch version for some slower deep line passes, which is why I asked him if he had played with the aftermarket fins that people are talking about. I'm sure the second fin doesn't impact the turning that much but supports the weight better. I have not tried the Whisper Fin but my son has.

Some of the ski hills in the Beijing area are open again. I've heard from a close friend that Wanlong is open now as are two others but I don't know which hills. The point is Beijing is returning to work. The ski hills near Beijing were closed late January and now reopening Mid March.

@DaveD Thanks for the comment....the USA and Canada can use a little humour right about now. I actually do spend a lot of time in international work but sadly the negotiations are not over donuts or stuffed cabbage. @A_B have you thought about the Senate Pro or played with the Whisper Fin or the Denali fins yet?

A_B that’s a tempting offer but I’m too big for the 69! My wife wants the recipe. I think I’ll put a HRT on it this summer and replace the mooring lights.

@A_B As you can tell I’m not interested in selling. Jay the whisper fin guru gave me a two fin set up. My ski is in Montana so I can’t take a photo of it for you