Rich

some things never change 1973 to 2012

I have been skiing since age 4, always passionate about the sport. Would bum rides on lakes behind anyone who would pull me from age 7-12. I looked for fast boats and faster older women. I lived on the Lagoon in San Mateo and got my Mom to pull me most every day after school. Became quite proficent on the "Maja 3.5" 1st saw a slalom course at age 10 at Bee Winans Ski school in Novato, however my parents wouldn't cough up the money untill a few years later when I became an addict at age 14 at Mike Suyderhouds Ski school in 1972 at Lake Shasta. Was able to run 30, 32 34 36 and 15 @ 36 my 1st time in the course. Suyderhoud says "You need to go to Berkeley and ski with Al Frosini" which we did after vacation. 2 weeks after my experience at Suyderhouds I skied in and won my 1st tournament at Lake Berryessa put on by Dave Holder. Quite an experience and for you old timers, many National skiers got thier 1st taste at this tourney, Stacy Spiker, Steve Larson, Randy Shelly, Bill & Lindy Mahanah. Back in those days everyone started at LL, I ran 30,32,34,36. And they put me back on the beach as the line didn't have loops. All the skiers skied, once this was all completed (no one made 36 LL) they measured the lines to shorten, put me back out on the water at 36 15 and a ran that and 3 at 22. My 1st sanctioned tornament, a the Sept tourney at Berkeley where the competion in Boys was pretty fierce, Some guy named Bob Lapoint, Mike Mcginley, Rich Slingerland, I ran 4 at 28off, Bob was the winnner with 2 a 35. Was a member of Diablo water ski club and was able to ski with some pretty good skiers, Leroy Burnett, the father of the fiberglas ski, Rich Pato, Doug & Don Morrison, Rich Slingerland. I was lucky to be around some pretty talented skiers. Skied competitively untill age 20, bcame a surfer, Started an Insurance Agency, www.richardstorelee.com Had a family, and started sking again at age 33. Founded a private site along with some fellow DWSC members called twin cities. Sanctioned tourneys there for about 10 years. Pretty much a self contained group, we had all our own officals inside. All 3 of my kids at one time were National qualified skiers, and I have continued to slug away at slalom and after all these years it sure has been alot of fun. And by the way I do think Horton has some pretty funny moments, and SKIMOM was that hot untouchable GF back in her open women days, I think I like it better as it is. Keep skiing, keep training and one day I'll outlast 'em all! LOL!!!

Im running close to you, 6820 2.449 707 bindings 28 7/8 moved the front back and that seemed to help

no payment from sponsored boat co if tied or broken behind a different boat, would you leave the money on the table and break the record or wait to ski behind your sponsor. I think I'd wait for the payday

interesting comments about water sking. In just about any other sport I have done it would be OK to practice on an adjacent court or field. Not only would it be OK, its kind of expected. In no other sport I have done was I expected to work also. Water sking is different, thats for sure. You train for hours to ski for a couple of minutes, and work at the competition.

the dynamic work out lasts 25-30 minutes

do a dynamic work out 2x per week. Box jumps, plyo drills, intervel work, Power cleans once every 10 days, medium weight 10-12 reps 3 sets no cardio other than intervel training. No bodybuilding stylye workouts. I personally do Bikram (HOT) Yoga 5-6 times per week 105 degree room 26 postures 90 minutes I'm 55 yeras young 5'7" 162 LBS 8-10 percent body fat.

agree with Killer, as wide as the buoy line is good, at 15, 5 feet wide is OK, 15 feet wide is too much. You want to learn an early edge change (at 15 it starts at the 2st wake), ski early, not too wide, ski easy, resist don't pull. Take the natural line that 15 gives you, which will keep you behind the boat, if skied easy 15 is a cakewalk at 34 or 36. see this

at 34 you would actually want to shallow the blade.

Thats interesting. I have always found that hanging onto the handle as long as possible works best, as it helps to maintain outbound direction. The handle will literally get pulled away, I stay off the handle as short a time as possible. The ski comes under the line upon the release, and skiing into the handle just happens naturally.

Watch the best skiers in the world, Nate Smith & Terry Winter. They both do it. Nate is a bit more efficient as he gets in the position a bit quicker on his good side lean and is able to change edges a little earlier going into his off side than Terry. This is extreme shortline however the fundamentals stay the same. I believ that Nate's 2 handed gate actually allows him to get into acceleration phase earlier than Terry, so he is able to start on a line that is about 3-5 feet earlier than Terry. You can stop and start this 1/4 speed video and really break it down.

LOL True

I may rattle some cages here, I don't think the best design engineers have worked on the product because of a lack of money. I may be wrong. My point is with 20 million to spend and hire the best engineers I believe a superior ski would be designed if they could make 25 mil. Real simulators designed, The whole sport lacks money. If BIG money enticed the best athletes into water sking instead of other sports the bar would be much higher. However that being said, I like it just the way it is, backyard, its more about passion, not money.

1st Goodes were I think were designed by Bob Lapoint & Dave. Tunnel bottom, pretty crude looking compared to the 9100. I watched Bob ski on it in the 95 Nationals At Okeehelee. He fell at 35. The next year Dave came out with the 9100. The 9100 is still a great ski, I still have mine, and I know I could pull it out and run to with in 2 bouys of my PB. Someone from outside of water skiing may collaborate with a well managed ski company and create something really different that works. Its interesting that top skiers become ski designers. In no other sport does a top athlete usally become a coach (Not untill they retire from competition) or a race car driver become an engine builder. Great Athletes are gifted individuals with physical gifts & drive that allow them to become great. I would think that the next great break through may come from an engineer type who is thinking way outside the box who is gifted with a mind for design and aided by someone with very deep pockets and has a passion to build a ski. It will be interesting if we ever see that combo in this sport. How are the best snow skis built? By whom? How about surfboards? Wind surfing? Who engineers the best cars? I think our sport is really just in the garage state that those others were in many years ago untill BIG money found them. Then engineers created the "toys" that Great athletes could use. Can you imagine if an engineering team with 20 million could design? Skied on by an individual with the athletic talent of Michael Jordan? Big money! Thinking about it, I kind of like it like it is. On the BIG MONEY model pros would taking down 43 and we'd be where? Haha!

she was on a new 65 inch standard Nano. New size. not sure of the other details as far as twist, flex from what I have been told by a reliable source

Go inside the Ball, thats ok! Shadow the course, thats OK! That is how I learn each progressive line length! Pulling LONG is BAD! Doing what Seth is doing takes nothing more than a good understanding of what Slalomcourse sking is really all about. One of the untold "secrets" is the amount of distance traveled increases as the line gets shorter! In my opinion, the difference between a good 15-22 off skier isn't that much from a 38 off skier. You have to be very fit, great strength to weight ratio, great core strength. You have to learn by watching the best, break it down, understand it. Do it in your mind, and it will come quicker than you think. Most people learn incorrectly to begin with. Most get stuck at either 32 @ 36 or 35@34 and have BIG trouble progresing after that. Most skiers I have worked with learn incorrectly from the beginning, can hack out 22 28 and are inconsistent at that. If you learn correctly this sport isn't that difficult. Once you "really" understand the fundamentals they don't change much as the line gets shorter. The distance traveled becomes greater as the line gets shorter. The angle will naturally get greater as the line gets shorter. The amount of resistance the skier needs has to become greater as the line gets shorter. The fundamentals stay the same. YOU don't need to turn any harder as the line gets shorter, it will happen because the line is shorter. That subtle change needs to be understood. YOU don't need to PULL ever, just resist! That is exactly how you learn 15, doing what Seth does. If you do you will progress much faster. It also depends on what your goals are, If you just want to ski for the fun of it, drink beers, don't worry about your fitness level, ect... pull long, turn hard, and hack it out. Its still fun, its just a matter of perspective and where you want to go and how fast you want to get there. A wise man builds his house on a strong foundation, Some prefer to build on sand.

15 or 38 are the same with a change in distance traveled YOU just don't realize it yet. This makes the pull from the boat greater as the line gets shorter. YOU DO the same things, with more resistance. Don't add anything, I'll explain. At 15 off you have more rope so you travel less distance on the same course! Sounds weird but is true! When you you figure that out you will be on your way! However I'll let you ponder that and share with you why Seth does it so easy. On his pull out he leads with his outside arm and shoulder, brings the ski on edge and rides it to a few feet before the apex(he gets a little lazy and bends his outside arm, as this is 15 its ok, however keep the outside arm straight like a steel pole, that is your accelerator) He pulls in or up on the handle to bring his body over the ski, right arm/elbow locked to his side and hits the apex. Glide... Keeping pressure on the line by keeping elbow close to the body. When its time to go (the left hand gate ball will be lining up with 1 ball as you look in) Allow the left arm to go straight (Seth releases however it doesn't really assist him, you could just reach with left arm (only straighten and resis the urge to move your upper body in) and the ski will come under the line, on edge and the acceleration will begin soon. To really get the acceleration going push both hands down, but feel the pull in the right arm which should be rigid like STEEL, ankles bent, knees slightly bent. The accelorator is the right arm, as your hips come up and right arm goes straight, keeping shoulders open to the boat. Seth is starting his transition at the 1st wake at 15. He is coming off his leaning edge and starting to counter away with his right shoulder, pulling in on the handle, locking his right elbow to his side. Because its 15 and he his traveling less distance/less angle than short line slalom he has created lots of space before the 1st ball. He glides arms in, getting himself over the ski as he approaches the appex. At the apex he releases his right hand and allows the ski to carry out and around the ball. The ski will naturally arc out and back at this point. He has set it all up correctly, which allows him to stay over/with the ski and ski back to the handle, once the hand comes back on the handle he is able to push his hands down, putting the acceleration phase into motion. The moment his 2nd hand comes back on the handle his left arm becomes straight/rigid and acceleration begins. He accelerates into the 1st wake left arm straight/ shoulders level/ ankles knees slightlty bent. He starts the tranistion at the 1st wake and repeats. (Note as the line gets shorter the distance traveled becomes greater and he will have to hold the acceleration/lean a bit longer, the resistance will have to become greater also, however YOU don't add anything.)

Hey Jim, I'm convienced that skiing back to the handle is a function of outbound direction. As the line gets shorter this becomes harder to do. If you maintain outbound direction skiing back to the handle is natural. If you are pulling in its because you have got twisted in the direction of the boat, If you are stepping on the back foot its usally because you lost outbound direction. If you hold outbound direction its easy to ride the ski around the ball and stay with the ski carrying as much speed as possible. After studying so many skiers from amatuer to pro the big difference I see is that the skiers that can run 38 & beyond consistently have great leverage positioning, followed by great handle control which leads to great outbound direction, which leads to a smooth turn carrying speed. My experience is this takes great strength to weight ratio, great core strength and proper timing. When executed properly it makes you feel like you are going slow, yet in reality you are going faster, covereing more distanse due to the rounder path in front of the ball. If you ever feel fast it because you are starting to travel in the same direction as the boat, which means you are covering less distance and are actually going slower. If you ever want to ski together I go to twin cities every Wed. to ski 12 to 5. Off I-5

skiing back to the handle is about how you approach the ball. If you are losing angle going into the ball because you didn't get in a good leverage position to start with, (Leading arm completely straight/down and as close to the body as possible) to allow you to get the ski up on edge) then as you hit the area between the 2nd wake and end of white water spray having a combo of handle seperation and shoulders/upperbody getting twisted toward the boat you will start to go in the direction of the boat instead of outbound and carving a big turn in front of the ball. You must maintain the leading arm straight, like a steel pole, Arm/elbow closest to the boat must stay locked onto your side with no seperation. If you have seperation you will lose angle and start to go in the direction the boat is traveling. If you have done that correctly skiing back to handle is a natural progression of skiing outbound to the appex , reach and ski coming back inbound under the line, or skiing back to the handle. If the elements of leverage/ angle handle control are missing you can't ski back to the handle at that point it is game over (if you are tyring to ski back to the handle). Skiing back to the handle will occur naturally if you hold direction off the 2nd wake to the point of letting go. It all starts with the proper leverage position at the point you put the 2nd hand back on the handle, maintaining angle/direction off the 2nd wake. Creating a round turn in front of the ball maintaing outward angle If that part isn't correct you can't ski back to the handle. Skiing back to the handle is simply a funtion of how you set up the turn. That is my 2 cents. Most problems occur a step or 2 before,most skiers realize what has happened and they are trying to fix something that needs to be corrected earlier in the sequence of events. The good news is there are only a few steps to Slalom and its easy to back up a step to correct a recurring problem.

Hold onto the handle longer, make sure you counter rotate with both hands on the handle as you move out toward the ball. The most common reason most skiers have a large radius is because they lose angle off the 2nd wake and ski towards the ball.

Remember Mike Graser? That was a great jumper of that era. Always cut really late, NO FEAR! Also John Steinbuch. I see John in my yoga classes.

Ask yourself why the water breaks between your feet in the pre turn. As you approach the ball the water should break right in front of your front foot, as you come around the corner the ski will shoot forward and the water should break right behind the front foot. The water does just the opposite on your ski. That is because you don't get over the front foot in the preturn, you have to pull your upper body over the front foot with your inside arm. The water moves forward as you finish, you have more load and the ski slows down, you are loosing time at that point.

You are a big strong man. On your pull out start from a taller position. Push your hands down and look at the right rear corner of the back of the boat. Bend you front ankle and knee as you slowly start to lean away and out. (you go too easy, then too hard) as you get to the apex pull your hands in bending your inside arm at 90 degrees. Coast over the front foot in a tall position. When its time to go, reach out, but only with your arms, not the body. (I would loose the 1 hand gate as a rt foor forward skier) Keep it simple. ( As a rt ft forward skier the gate in is your good side lean, you are already in an open position just because of htat fact) The initial lean out is the easiest place to start good handle control because you will be carrying alot less speed and angle than you will in the course. As you turn in push your hands down your body pin your elbows to your sides at the same time, stay open to the boat, as you relax your front ankle & knee. (you are using signifigantly more effort & strength than is necessary) as you approach the 1st wake let the ski accelerate under you or shoot it out so you can transition onto the turning edge off the 2nd wake. at that time make sure your inside elbow stays on your hip. As you get past the white water the inside elbow should be at a 90 degree bend, you will be countering with your outside shoulder resisting the pull of the boat trying to twist you towards it. Stay on the handle as long as possible, only allow the ski to go around the ball, you will reach as the line is pulled from you. Based upon the video you don't ever feel the line getting pulled away because you lose angle off the 2nd wake, and experience down course speed instead of experincing cross course speed while maintaining outward angle. (You actually go faster when you maintain outbound angle, however it feels slower and looks slower) Try to keep your body more over your feet all the time, as you lose angle off the 2nd wake and ski towards the ball instead of in front of it or maintaing outward direction, you fall over at each turn, lean way back, get stiff legged to take that huge load. Go back to the start, learn handle control there. 1st, keep handle control through the 1st wake and see if you can maintain outbound direction into 1 ball instead of skiing right at it. I hope this all helps. Based upon your strength if you could just put things in the right place as I have discribed you'll kill it! Good Luck!

yeap --- elbows tight, always. hands down --- always. The 2nd photo above is just off the 2nd wake at 38' in 8-10 feet, just outside the white water the handle will be on the inside hip, my elbow at a 90 degree bend. This will bring my body over my front foot, the water should break right in front my front foot. Take photos & video. Watch the pros and evaluate what your handle control really is, not how it feels, but what is really happening based upon facts you can see in photos & video. If you use photos you can evaluate and make adjustments.

If you are pushing the handle down off the 2nd wake you will not 1 maintain angle off the 2nd wake 2 be able to get over your front foot at the apex Handel contro starts when you ski into the handle at the completion of the turn. At that point you push the handle down your body. I try to keep the handle as close to my body as possible, as little seperation as possible between the handle & your body, hip, leg. As you come off the 2nd wake I pin my inside elbow to my body & crunch the inside oblique. Hold that untill you are past the white water as to counter your upper body away from the boat