Taelan28

#1 Im awesome. I ran 28 off behind an inboard for the first time. and I did it with barely any skiing this week. #2 I need to stop double tapping where I hit the brakes to stop myself on the way out, and then hit it again in my turn. Its really obvious in the video. I need to make it all one smooth motion. #3 I have a tendency to get out stand up straight, lean, then turn. Proper technique is to lean on the way out and stretch... all in one fluid motion of course. #4 Rolling waves suck. Sure the water is glassy but the leftover rollers, no matter how harmless they may appear, are hindering. I cant turn as hard, I cant get out as wide and I cant pull as hard. Using an inboard helps this but its still an issue. #5 skiing when the water is flat is EASY! My god Everything came together right away. Getting wider, stretching and turning all in one motion made it darn easy. If there were buoys I would have been running ahead of them. AND I did it in the dark. #6 Before I'd need two or three continuous days of skiing to get in my groove (outboards and wakes do not help), now I can warm up in a kilometer of skiing. Sweet. #7 Rain at 70mph hurts. A bee sting to the nose at that speed hurts like hell! I thought I had metal shrapnell lodged in my nose. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51vccPFermQ&feature=youtu.be Finally, forget 6 buoys, or even 12 buoy madness. This manmade lake is 2km long and was used for rowing competitions in 1988. Today its used for boat races. No rollers here.

First of all my definition of physically demanding is an activity that requires speed strength endurance agility a wide variety of movement and some more endurance. I dont believe skiing is physically demanding. When I finish a set I feel a little winded and stressed but I dont feel like skiing demands too much from my body. Slalom skiing is turning side to side and maintaining a pull. A lot of balance and agility is required to right onesself on a sloppy turn or any other mistake, but there is no opponent like in football or hockey actively trying to take you down. Quickness is required to move the body front a reach to a pull. However there is not a wide variety of movements that other sports require, tennis, basketball (any sport that has an opponent), and gymnastics. The muscles are flexing and maintaining their position but they are not contracting. One does not become stronger by holding up 200 lbs on his shoulders but by actually squatting 50 lbs. I believe 11 grade physics said carrying 200lbs from pt A to point B required any word, but lifting it two meters up did. Running the course takes 16.08 seconds. Thats way to short to be physically demanding. Even the most out of shape person can do something intense for 16.08 seconds, but not everybody can run 10 miles, or climb a mountain with a backpack full of gear. Not everyone can swim a half mile either. Sure you say you're breathing heavy when you're done and so do I even though Im in shape, but I also breathe heavy running up a flight of stairs, or sprinting a few hundred feet. Are those physically demanding? no. Finally, I've seen a very, very, out of pudgy man nearly run 35 off. This dude wasnt big and squishy, he was big and jiggly. Props to him for skiing far better than I can and in all likelyhood a stronger grip, but a guy that looks like that skiing that well tells me slalom skiing is more technically demanding than physically demanding... like golf. Overall skiing is not physically demanding because no true strength is required as the muscles are flexing but not contracting. The motions made are repeditive and similar rather than dynamic spontaneous. The time taken to run a course is tiny and slalom skiing seems to be more technically demanding. This being said I'd like to point out that I believe most olympic sports are not physically demanding. Shotput, track and field, rowing, weight lifting and almost every individual sport where there isnt a direct opponent. What makes the athletes of these sports so strong, quick and athletic is the training. Usain Bolt didnt run as fast as he does just by sprinting 100 meters all day. It was the parachute runs, running 200m, quickness drills, and doing everything it back to back with less rest and some weight training that allowed him to do it. Running 100m within and of itself is not hard, as is rowing a boat, lifting a weight, or throwing a ball, but doing these things at athletic levels is accomplished through physically demanding trainign. Like wise skiing itself from left to right is possible to most abled bodied people, but the course at any length is hard as hell just as a 10s 100m spring is, running a mile in under 7 minutes, hiking up a mountain with gear, is. Athletes get to their high marks through strenuous training. Skiers run the short like be improving their technique, doing some physically demanding training and, of course, running the course many many times. Thoughts, comments, disagreements. PS. I found this posted in the comments section of a youtube video

Eric you say things that make such perfect sense in so many of your posts. Whenever I see your name I get excited and I prepare myself for reading something intelligent. Debt free is the way to ski.

Every part after opening it up. Showing it off to the co-workers when it arrives. Showing it off to the ski club member when you bring it there.

It will be the off season. It takes a week to get dull and two weeks to be really out of shape. It also takes 6 weeks to get in shape and the off season is November to April. Take a rest. You're also only 15. You're body is going through growth spurts, you will never be so naturally lean and slender. Unless you really really work at it there wont be any pudge to lose before the next season. You'll bounce into shape in 4 weeks.

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I like my ski lakes like i like my women: low maintenance. ~~~best piece of advice my dad ever gave me.

@Razorskier1 YES! on the inboard being easier when done correctly.

@tbrenchley I dont believe Slalom skiing is very physically demanding because IT IS 16.08 seconds. There are only two positions in which one is exercing force. Once again, muscles are not contracting. Come to think of it I'll give you the agility argument because when one botches a turn I gotta find a way to rebalance and get back on track. I don't say Slalom skiing is not physically demanding. It is, but not as much compared to other sports and the physicality required is well within a lot of peoples abilities. Whats important to note is that what I find to be physically demanding is very subjective, there's no way to measure it.

Yes I know this but I dont understand the real reason why. I suppose it doesnt matter at all since its a black and white issue: Dont pull out to the buoy.

@tbrenchley Sarcasm isnt necessary. If what Im saying pertaining to skiing is incorrect then please tell me where Im wrong. I really get the feeling that challenging opinions are not welcome here. People here are much more interested in discrediting someONE they dont agree with instead of debating someTHING they dont agree with. I stopped posting here for a while because everytime I checked this site I got a bad feeling, like its a waste of time. I come back with some more discussion questions and I state my findings as a means for those here to see whats going on and I get insulted. btw, its 55k.

@skibug I get slack when I exert an increased pulling force on the rope on the way out to the buoy. I get slack when I try to accelerate out to the buoy. Why I dont know, its just is. You are moving up the course faster than the boat ANY TIME you are moving away from the centerline.

"Why does pulling long pose a serious slalom problem?" Hell if I know, it just does. I see it and feel it with myself and other skiers. I cant answer the question with specifics but the fix is to not pull past the center line. The force is greatest at the center line because you're pulling in the exact opposite direction the boat is going. S: Why do we need to stop pulling there? T: To avoid slack. S: Why does pulling past the centerline cause slack? T: I dont know, but it does, so don't do it. S: I cant get to the ball, without pulling past the centerline, How do I fix this? T: Pull harder. No seth it doesnt really help with what you were trying to say. Maybe because the knowledge I seek is the correct path of the skie throughout the course not "Why does pulling long pose a serious slalom problem?" Looking at the video again and thinking about the correct path of the ski from an overhead view I can see that the handle gets pulled past the ski/the ski disengages from the handle's path on a tangent as a means to stay straighter and make it to the next buoy. I dont know if I can coach you so much as I can give you more consistent feedback for you to measure how well you presented something.

ToddL is right, the handle gets pulled over the ski. The ski path essentially stays smooth and the same no matter the rope length. Seth Im sorry but when you said "Does that make any sense?" They lied. Understanding and knowing are two different things. Jay ski bring up the a very important word in teaching REPLICATION! They learned it when they can replicate it. "Does that make any sense?" Should instead be "ok what did I say?" or "ok explain to me what I just said" If they cant explain it there's about a 5% chance its their fault and a 95% chance your delivery is not clean.... ok maybe 10/90. Im also aware in my first post that I could be wrong about them understanding as you are with them for several hours and have already gone over some things. However my teacher's sense tells me that you talking for 5 minutes about tangents, force, rope length, and the handle crossing the ski without any feedback tells me it skimmed over their heads. You want to have constant feed back from students. There's a slight myth that we all learn different. I disagree, we all learn the same. If we are learning something then 90% of it must be review and the other 10% must be new material. Its the only way the brain stays focused and doesnt doze off. This isnt unique to kindergarten kids either. I see it in adults as well. I've also seen so called "good students who are serious about studying" learn the same lazy way two, they just sit there more quietly nodding waiting for answers instead of causing trouble. Acceleration: A positive change in speed or direction. Deceleration: A negative change in speed or direction. T:If the boat is going 34mph and you are not pulling how fast are you going? S:34mph. T:are you accelerating? S:no T: Why not? S: Uhh. T: Whats acceleration S: A positive change in speed or direction. T: Why arent you accelerating when you're not pulling the rope? S: My direction isnt changing so Im not accelerating. T: When you pull the rope in any direction what are you doing? S: Im accelerating. T: Why? S: Because my diretion is changing. T: Which direction are you going? S: uh this direction. T: Up the course faster than the boat or slower than the boat? S: Up faster. T: Good, if pulling on the rope and moving up the course accelerates then when do you decelerate? S: When I stop pulling. T: When do you stop pulling? S: When I turn. T: When do you stop moving up the course as fast as the boat? S: When I turn. T: Here's the arc of a 200ft rope going width the buoys. When you pull will you accelerate much relative to up or down the course? S: No. T: Why? S: Because the arc of a 200ft rope does not go very far up. T: What about deceleration at the turn how much is there? S: Not much. T: Why? S: Because the boat and skier are not getting much further apart relative to the up and down the course. T: So that means the force of you pulling on a 200ft rope is almost constant after the turn. Why is that? S: Because there wasnt much acceleration relative to the boat going up and down the course in the first place, so the pull will be nearly constant no matter where I am. T: Here's the arc of a 11 meter rope. The path of the skier going through the course is the same as the 200ft rope. What's there a lot more of if you pull? S: Acceleration. T: Why? S: Because I pull Ill go further up the course faster than the boat, so Im accerating. T: ok so when you turn what happens? S: I distance myself from the boat. T: And that is? S: Deceleration. T: Ok great, Now the force of the boat pulling on you. Is it? S: Not really? T: Why? S: The boat can only pull you in the direction of the rope and the rope is at 80 degrees, its not really pulling me up course. T: You're moving down course slower, you are? S: Decelerating. T: Great, but how the hell are you going to get to the other buoy if youre decelerating? At 200 ft you're not slowing down after the turn, but at 39ft off you're slowing down because the boat isnt pulling you after the turn. Whats going to happen if you're going to get that buoy? S: Accelerate. Its not super clean, and the students answers probably are too accurate as to where the teacher wants to lead him/her. If a student gets the answer wrong immediately refer to the principle which will help them get the answer. I havent taught skiing before and I dont intend to. This was meant as a test of my knowledge as well as an example of how I would teach what I know. @ShaneH The students who speak the most and interact with the teacher the most are the ones that learn the most. Students should only be quiet as to not interfere with obsorbing more knowledge. A teacher needs constant feedback from students to mold the lesson correctly. Likewise a teacher should constantly be asking the student for feedback and to...and to... and to... REPLICATE what has just been told or demonstrated.

@jfw423 I've had it go both ways. Early in the season course skiing was helping me enjoy free skiing a lot more. Now its the other way where i used free skiing as a means to improve course skiing. I warm up with a set, develope some rythm to pull harder and harder as well as get wider and wider. Running the course cold is just not possible for me, well maybe is. One topic thats been slightly touched on is resources. If I miss ball two or irreparably screw up on ball one (its happened) Im out $6 on my first pass, and if I screwed up my first pass that bad I'll betcha I'll waste another $6 on the next pass, so I can end up skiing for 5 minutes, making maybe 12/24 balls, and I dont feel a workout. I dump enough money into skiing I dont need to feel like Im throwing it away. Oppositely if I had a boat in my name and a girlfriend I'd be up and down that course all day after my free skiing warm up... heck if I had a boat I wouldnt be suprised if I never free skied. I think the choices some of us make are very much related to the resources we have, time, money, access, and physical ability. Statements for both true and false have good arguements, everyone frames their answer differently. Bad habits in free skiing Im JUST seeing being developed and the short line will not forgive me. I do screw up often and free skiing and its great to be able to reset myself within a few seconds instead of wait until the end of the pass. All non prideful comments so far have been exceedingly valid.

Seth i need to go to work now but i cannot wait to respond. I will say that i have a solid grasp of what goes on from turn to the center of the wake but i dont fully understand the physics of the rope and a decelerating skier. Ill meditate on it more.

@crashman YES!

I just realized the perfect analogy. Olymic weight lifting. Highly repeditive motions and a lot of stress. The legs to the lifting (physically demanding) yet the arms sustain the same amount of weight (more physically punishing than demanding).

#1 Im no longer numb to the feeling of the inboard and outboard. The difference was noticable before, but now its night and day. Any thing less than 14 meters on an outboard is impossible. #2 Outboard boats cause a lot of imbalance and Im at odds to properly balance on the pull, which causes me to pull way past the mid point creating a lot of slack even when I have a great pull. #3 rolling wake waves arent nearly as big of an issue behind an inboard boat. Because the pull is much more stable I can deal with one inbalance instead of two. #4 Skiing behind in outboard I ski like a beast only some of the time. Behind an inboard I ski like a beast all the time. Its less physically punishing, more physically demanding, and I ski awesome even when I was up to 5am drinking the night before. #5 Getting through the gates sucks. I compromised two passes ($12) just to try to get through the gates. Someone on my salary is making foolish investments in leisure. #6 Running a pass behind an inboard is harder, less physically punishing, more physically demanding and more predictable, thus eventually it will be easier :D #7 Free skiing up to this point has been a means to improve technique through high repetition, an the ability to reset right away after a mistake. I would not be as good as I (think I) am now without it. However, the path of my ski on the course goes way out to the buoy then waits. To do that i needed to pull way past the centerline thus I have slack. Proper ski path has the ski constanly going out to the buoy. I cannot teach myself this manuever free skiing. I need a ball to go around and A LOT more practice. #8 Free skiing once is a great and proper warm up before running the course.

Yes @webbdawg99 it would seem that way and I may very well be fudging on my meanings. Its not physically demanding in the sense that it requires the body to do a lot, and its not physically demanding like other sports such as hockey, football, basketball, tennis, raquetball, volleyball, rowing or rock climbing. Those sports require a vast range of movements, strength, speed, agility and endurance. Slalom skiing is a sport, its not golf! Yes you need strength, and some decent cardio (Im suprised how hard I breathe after a 2 km run!). Slalom skiing is like an olympic sport in the sense that its highly repeditive (sprinting, shotput, rowing, swimming, even cycling, and any track and field event.) and for the most part the physical requirements are some above average cardio, super strong grip and an ability to pull hard and withstand the force. As I said before the skier muscles are not contracting and lifting weight so much as they're supporting weight, thus I dont believe skiing is physically demanding. If you disagree with that statement then try to improve your benchpress or squats but just holding the weight up. The training that goes into being a better skier is more physcially demanding than sking. The stretching, agility, lifting and cardio are all done so the body can withstand greater force on the course. Slalom skiing seems to be physically punishing more than it is physically demanding. I exercise a lot and have some strong bicepts. Due likely to some less than perfect technique my body gets jerked by the slack and I have a sore arm the next day. My arm is not getting strong, it is being punished but some unecessarily quick forces. The same goes for the lower back on the pull. I may not pull correctly and crunch my lower back in a way that is not meant to. Strength and training are a means of minimizing injury as much as they are to improve performance. To put what i mean in the most simple terms. Physically demanding requires strength, speed, stamina, agility and a range of motions. Physically punishing is putting the body through excessive stresses that cannot be replicated in a training environment. More simply you cannot train you face to get punched and take punches better. Like wise I cannot train my arm to deal with the forces of the boat pulling slack. Once again Slalom skiing is not very physically demanding because the muscles are not contracting or lifting anything so much as they're supporting excessive weight. The range of motion in slalom skiing is also very limited: stretch left, turn, pull, stretch right, turn, pull. The body's motions dont do much else. Where this fits with Andy Mapples age and him not being able to perform at the level he could, because of the training he needs to do to withstand the forces of slalom skiing. Like I said training for skiing is more physically demanding than skiing itself and at the age of 49, he and everyone else I am aware of has not been able to perform at the level they could have when they were 39. The man himself said in an interview his mind was writing checks his body couldnt cash.

If you can run 38 off at 34 mph that may likely be a record too.

I just talked to a ski athlete at my club. He says the record in korea is 14 meters at 36 mph. Part of me doesnt want to believe that as this guy can run 35 off at 34 mph but why would he lie? if you want to set a national record come to seoul the weekend of the 22-23 entree fees are about $20.

Standing by my commenta again... Slalom is stressful on the body in terms of the forced being applied but for the most part the muscles arent contracting at all. A physically demanding sport is rock climbing where it test strength and endurance. Cycling and running are physically demanding too. A 49 year old body is deteriorating and i would put money on someone equally in shape and 10 years younger every time. This debate is also silly. Where are the measurable numbers to show that this guy is better than he was 10 years ago. You guys are voting yes on emotions im voting no based on comparisons to athletes in other sports.

Come on guys. This dude retired almost 10 years ago. You really think he's going to stay anywhere near the same almost a decade after retirement? Sure Slalom in many ways isnt too physically demanding, but the pressure being ladled on that old body at that age? If he were 40 I'd say sure as Im a firm believer in men/athletes being productive until 40, but the man is 49. Julio Franco played baseball until he was 49, and baseball is a really physically forgiving sport. Nobody at 49 is going to do anything like they did at 39. You think if this guy was still productive and competitive for the last 10 years he'd compete?

There's a competition next month in Korea. My boat driver says I should do it and he wouldnt tell that to anyone. When Im on my game free skiing Im an animal, but this hasnt translated well into buoys--because I dont practice buoys. Running an UGLY 14m this week gives me confidence though, and running 13m isnt out of the question if I tighten things up. First, I need to drop extra cash and pay for the inboard boat. That outboard has reached its limits at 14 meters and 13 meters today is too much of a drag on it. It causes too much slack and the pull is not consistent. I'll do one warm up of free skiing then 8 passes of buoys. Second, do I need to worry about running longer rope lengths or can I just holler at them FOURTEEN METERS! and have it be done? Third and most important. I need to go through the opening gates. Any suggestions on that? It looks really difficult threading those things at 34mph. I noticed when the boat passes the gates thats when the skier cuts. Any other reference points? I just want to run a pass at 28 off. Thanks guys.