GregHind

Hi phil. It's 8.0.2 now and there are changes with at least how long a setup you need for speed to settle correctly. Greg

@tp_skier4 very nice. What boat and engine?

@sixball shame it doesn't have the right ECM for Zero Off!

Wow big crash. Nice to see you had an attentive boat driver too.

This Saturday morning. The first day of summer!

@6balls my last post was on my iphone so I couldn't post a picture http://mastercraft.com/teamtalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=48944&stc=1&d=1246580319

@6balls I have a matrix sorrento with 225ho etec outboard. It has stargazer with z box. Imagine a prostar 197 outboard if you are wondering what it looks like.

So, what is the best RTP on the market?

Your kidding me! I just switched from an RTP to double boots last weekend. Since I could do it easily on land with the draft hinge boot, I figured I could get my back foot in the boot on the run (I always start dry off the dock) ran 5 @ 36 with my back foot half in the boot then did a deep start with both feet in. Last time I had to use double boots on a proper slalom ski, I was at Horton Lakes in California. Blew 5 starts in a row! Jack Horton was telling me to look up at the ski pole... 2 foot starts are for fence palings. I much, much prefer to drag my back leg on the start. Yes, I'll get to my question. Who makes the best RTP which will fit a 2008 Prophecy and where is the best place to get one?

Thanks all. I'd still love to know what a 550hp supercharged LSA would go like :) Would the LSA be lighter than the 343 (better wash too?!) Realistically though $24k is a stupid UPGRADE price on an engine, but it would make a nice boat!

I looked into buying a 2006 Prostar 197 with the biggest engine you could get back then. Reports from barefooters weren't all that kind. I can't remember the exact horsepower rating but the common statement was something like to make sure I got the 400hp engine and I MIGHT be happy with it. I'm pretty sure it was rated at exactly 400hp..? I wouldn't want to be buying an old model hull like the 197 these days. I really liked the look of it when it was new but now I'd be worried that the new model will date it too quickly. It would be nice to get an established hull (not first year) like the CC200. In moving to a boat that compromises barefooting and interior space, I'd not want to compromise the slalom wake too. It would have to be a TXI or 200 if it was an inboard for me I think. I like a boat that can do everything pretty well. I don't want two boats, I ski at home during the week but take the boat away of a weekend. I'm thinking maybe losing a bit of barefoot function and interior space but gaining the best setup for slalom. How quick is the ZR450 in a CC200 and what is it like for slalom compared to say the 343. Is it harder to ski behind, harder pull etc? Ed, what is the top end of your 409? Greg

I read about CC using the Supercharged LSA 550HP engine in the G25. This engine weighs only 467lb and is zero off compatible. What does the stock ex343 engine weigh? Is there a SC LSA out there in a Nautique 200? Would it be any good for slalom. I like to barefoot, often with a boat full of people, at high speed and with 2 or more barefooters. I'm not that fussy about the barefoot wake - anything pulling 45+mph with 8 people in the boat and 2 or more footers out the back is going to be pretty turbulent. So the LSA would make great speed for barefoot in this boat I would think. I'd also want no compromises compared to the stock engine when using it as a lightly loaded slalom tug. No point having a CC200 if it isn't as good as all the others. How does the 450hp go in this boat? What is it like for slalom with that engine? Thanks Greg

Nice. And interesting to watch your weather forecasts. Very different format to what we have here.

Malibu flightcraft barefooter or one of the many outboard barefoot boats you can see on the boat reviews on http://barefootcentral.info would be the best choice for ocean compatible slalom boat. The wakes are tiny. Tracking is pretty good. Ability to trim the engine to lift the nose right up if it gets rough.

Hi Phil Since you already have 8.0.0 the upgrade cost for you should be quite low. The upgrade is available from PP directly. As you are skiing now, if you did the upgrade you could give some feedback to this forum over the American winter. This upgrade should help short setups. I'm sure it does lots of over little things too. 8.0.0 is basically version 1 of the z box software. I'll be upgrading too. Greg

Hi Ed, I have a lot of respect for what you say, I've dealt with you in the past and you are a capable and particular person. And a longtime skier. You have the old software and it would be worth updating to the latest GPS no magnet software. I think it would help a lot with your short setups. Hopefully you may no longer need the workaround but either way it should settle in much quicker. I suspect you can get this software for less without the GPS no magnet upgrade but I'd do both. No magnet is nice!

Ed, I think the wiring harness may help you. I'd be interested to see if it makes any difference. Malibu boats are normally better with factory PP wiring than most smaller manufacturers but I think it still may help. I've looked into the 300rpm base issue you mentioned and it shouldn't be necessary. The factory programmer has not heard of this workaround being necessary. I'm guessing you have the earlier Z box software. Version 8.0.0?? Would you please let me know? Version 8.0.2 is apparently a major help with short setups. Might be worth you upgrading prior to next season. I'm not surprised to see Z box need a couple of software updates to get right. Zero Off took quite while to get their system to a point that skiers liked it. Greg

Some troubleshooting tips in addition to Ed's document. I have no experience with Stargazer in short setups. Heaps of room here. I've done a lot of custom systems with PP (inboards, outboards, IO and jet boats) and have a lot of troubleshooting experience. The factory programmers are very capable. If it was generally the best thing to have a lower baseline, the programming would have been modified by now to do it, and would have come that way in the first place. The suggestion may have merit in short setups but generally baselines should be set as per the factory recommendations. Ed's boat would be drive by wire, most people needing troubleshooting help would be running mechanical systems. You need a good earth. Very few ski boats with mechanical throttle engines are wired properly. I've solved many useless perfect pass installations with a wiring loom. I prefer to err on the side of overkill so I run a pair of 6 sq mm conductor size cables direct to the battery. The positive wire has a 10 amp fuse near the battery. An ignition switched relay near the master module takes the 6mm positive wire in and provides switched power for the master module. Very much the same principal as driving lights on a car - you can google that or ask any auto electrician to do it for you. 6 sq mm of conductor size would be overkill and 4mm would be fine too. I use 6mm. Note 4mm CABLE size is much smaller and I would avoid that. I would use at least 4 sq mm conductor size. Don't count the plastic insulation in conductor size as it doesn't conduct. Servo motor operation should be tested. Use the servo test mode. Ensure no slop is present during any tests. When the servo changes direction, the engine throttle should too. No slop, nothing bending, just exactly doing what the servo does. Some linkages bend as the servo changes direction. Very hard for PP to control speed when the engine isn't even being told the right thing to do! Test the servo motor operation with the engine switched off at 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and full throttle. It should be perfectly smooth. I've seen servo cables jump and catch at different settings. Check and fix it. You may need a return spring. If PP can't get the throttle to return all the way to idle, you need a return spring. Use one as long as you can make fit. Make it only just strong enough to do the job. RPM modes like classic can compensate better for a poor throttle setup as RPM mode gives PP sample data more than 200 times per second. Stargazer takes into account GPS and I think is a little slower than pure RPM mode to make compensations for a poor throttle setup. Z box is much, much more fussy about this. If your system isn't perfect with Stargazer alone, then it could be a bad candidate for Z box. For example, a boat was "fine" with Stargazer but with Z box it was giving nasty hits around some buoys. Horrible to ski behind with Z box. Turned out that the blob of glue that holds the string onto the knob on the servo motor was too big and was catching on the string at certain points in the servo motor rotation. Stargazer was so fast it was able to mostly correct for this (nobody had ever noticed it) but Z box mode couldn't. Fixing this took seconds and improved the pull considerably. This was quickly found with the servo motor tests described above. Another example, I had a chance to visit a customer 3000 miles away and drove his boat. His stargazer was awful. I turned it off and drove by hand and told him it was not nearly right. Hunting, couldn't lock in before the gates, poor times, poor pull, you name it. I built him the wiring loom described above and sent it to him. He told me it transformed the pull of the boat. When I'm troubleshooting a mechanical PP I do this: 1. Check the servo motor operation as described 2. Check the voltages and or just go ahead and install the loom Greg

X2 to your arms. Your problem starts with your bent elbows. Fix that first. You have to break at the waist to be ale to hold your elbows like that. You can push the handle down towards your waist but don't pull it in towards your waist.

Sounds like a diet problem to me. I'm 35 and was feeling as you described earlier this year. Was so sore I didn't feel like skiing! Massively increased my protein intake and it was fixed within a week! You should be starting to get ski fit after about 4 weeks at that level but you would need a lot of protein for muscle growth and repair. I have 4 eggs on toast for breakfast, 2 tins of tuna for lunch and a good servo of protein for dinner too. Include lots of vegetables etc. Try it for two weeks, you'll know by then. I'm suggesting to add protein in addition to what you already eat rather than take away anything you currently eat. And if you are going to watch your weight, do it on scales that measure % body fat. Changes in % body fat is much more important than actual weight. You may put on a few pounds for a while but it will be muscle.

Skijay is that how Nate seriously skis or was he just showing off? I mean it was awesome but is it really how he would tacke harder passes? He stopped pulling before the first wake! awesome and I wish I could get away with that. Watching my recent videos that is what I thought I was doing wrong to stop me running -28! Than you invited posts from hacks so I'll comment. Please critique my comments tho as I'm interested to learn. In your favorite 35 pass video you really seemed to be on time for 1 ball. All the others, to me, you seemed very late at 1. In all passes you seem to start wide, drift in then sometimes drift in again. You start to seriously pull only about 2 meters before the white water beside the wash. Nate seems to do all his work before the wake, you seem to be starting to get hooked up there. I have to say - awesome skiing. I'd like to finish 28 off this season so you are miles ahead of me. If you are ever in Australia look me up! Im assuming your gates are intentional so I'd love to hear your thoughts on my thoughts.

Some more details please. What is the total length of your lake and where is your receiving location. For example on a 3500 ft lake you need about 2000ft of reliable distance if your receiver is at the centre. Let's say your tower is in the middle. To get a wifi network working there, a 7dbi OMNI directional (360 degree coverage) antenna on top of the judges tower and on the boat would work fine. Use a decent access point for example ubiquiti gear is excellent. If your tower is at one end then you can use a directional antenna. A 24dbi could shoot straight down the lake and the boat would still run a 7 dbi antenna. Note these are not eBay claimed numbers. You can't beat physics and a real omni will be about 2ft tall. Your boat would always be within the beam pattern of the directional antenna at the end and the OMNI means the boat can be anywhere on the lake and still get coverage. Then you just use any wifi gear you like - a lot of Ethernet based camera gear these days for security etc. Can you be more specific?

Greg Hind from Tasmania (Australia). PB 3 @ 28 off 36mph yet I'm a World Water Ski Record Holder (2010) and Pending Water Ski World Record Holder (2012) ;) Horton, I love the site top job. I'm currently skiing on a 2008 Connelly Prophecy and had one of the first F1's prior to that. Just getting serious about getting back into it after nearly 10 years of well, not being serious! P.s I went skiing with Jack Horton back in 2008 at his lakes in the desert. Considering his were the first ever man made ski lakes, they are so amazingly well thought out. I love the custom boat lift that pretty much nukes the boat out of the water! Roller blades turned into bindings. All sorts of interesting ideas. I've fitted PP to a few jet boats and the owners have been happy. Don't know how well Z box would work with the boat pictured here tho!!!

I would never buy a new PP Classic System. Stargazer has that mode built in. If you want it, use Classic mode but you also have all the other new stargazer modes available if you want them. If you buy a new 3 event stargazer system they are prepared to install the no magnet software even without needing to buy the Z box component. I'm almost certain that you could run Stargazer in classic mode, using GPS positioning instead of magnets. PP can be dialed in to work on nearly any boat, its even pretty good on jet boats! On an old boat you may need to install a new ground wire, in ignition switched new relay with a nice big positive wire and a return spring to really dial it in. If people telling you of problems with mechanical stargazer haven't done that, well thats the root cause of nearly every problem I've ever heard of with PP. Most boats have really, really bad 12 volt wiring. PP is a pretty tolerant system but honestly I've seen some shockers. Fixing the wiring has transformed the pull of the boat. I recently posted on here info on how to do relays etc for PP