BRY

@Livetoski Misinformation man, spreading misinformation. Slalom AJ is easy. Level 8 or higher skiers get an Assistant Judge rating by sending in an application. Show enough interest to at least put name, address and contact info on a form and mail it. If sending in an application is too difficult or complex for someone then yea, being a judge is difficult for them. For W5 that is 5 balls at 55/34 long line. Not Level 8? Then do this: Dock Start Once, just once Explain to a supervising Judge the course once, just once. Watch a scorer score once, just once Judge with a regular or higher 6 or more skiers in a row, twice Fill out a form and mail it in. I see that as the bare minimum to ensure a judge knows whats going on. If your a skier its brain dead easy. Then judge at 4 tournaments over 2 years, the 4 spread out however works best for you over the 2 years. It's not that hard. It's not.

Okeeheelee Weather As of: 1/14/2018 12:16:26PM Air Temp: 62.8 Water Temp: 64.6

Chet's is closest as actually in Boca, far west side. But for the area with courses, North to South: Palm Beach Water Sports - About 35 minutes from Boca (direct off I-95.) Literally right next to PBI. Pay per ride. Public site. Okeeheelee Park - About 45 minutes from Boca. Need own boat and permit ($80-$175yr) or hookup. Closed site. Lake Ida Park - About 20 minutes from Boca. Public, but i've been told there's a course on it. Never gone there myself, looks really busy from the freeway. Need own boat. Palm Beach Training Center (Chet's) - About 20 minutes from "downtown" Boca, 30 minutes to beach. Pay per ride. Closed site. Ski Rixen - About 15 minutes from Boca. Cable Park, pay per ride, not sure anyone ski's here all wakeboard? Closed site. LTS Wakeboard School - About 12 minutes from Boca. On Crystal Lake fore mentioned by @jetpilotg4. Really a wakeboard place but say they ski... Pay per ride. Public site. Gold Coast Water Ski Club - About 20 minutes from Boca. In Mills Pond Park (Public) but locked ramp, club access only. Need to join club, own boat helpful or hookup. Closed site. McGinnis WaterSki About 30 minutes from Boca. Pay per ride. Closed site. Greater Miami Ski Club/ - About 1 hour from Boca. Club access only so need membership (own boat very helpful) or hookup. Closed site. What I mean by closed site is no general boating going on around (or in) the course(s), they are ski only. There are a few private residential lakes around also but don't know of any right in Boca. Need to know an owner for those. These are the sites I know of with courses in SE FL around the PBI, FLL, MIA airport trifecta. A major airport very close to all these sites. The next ski sites North or East are about an hour or more from Okeeheelee so quite a ways from Boca. Anyone know of any other courses in the area please add to the list! @Horton, why the question? Coming for a visit or thinking of moving? I think Okeeheelee, Chet's or Miami are the sites you are really looking for.

Going OTF into, during or right after the turn can be ski set up (wing, fin, bindings) and/or you. Going OTF off the second wake is you. If you are in a strong (stacked) position handle in then nothing can get you forward there, you will just power through it. Might feel like crap if ski wrong, but you will power through it. I will bet the handle is a bit out and your bending your shoulders a bit forward before the white water so the boat ends up owning you into an OTF. Video, it's humbling, but video. Everyone's got a phone and anyone can sit and video you. Better yet video and post it here... And +1 to put it at 10 and see, put it at 9 and see... But check your stack at the beginning of the white water.

I get better turns off side with a cleaner finish. I miss more on the off side though when on the edge. I think that is due to being my being able to get away with really stupid s$!#t on my onside, just get the handle in, ski in front and hang on. I'm lefty so three onside 1,3,5 and three offside 2,4,6. 6-ball on offside it definitely counts. I want to ski Adam's course where I can head for gates after 5. Think it's more to do with onside pull (hips face toward boat) into offside so better pull, direction off wake, and edge change into offside. Onside turn has offside pull (hips away from boat) into it so pull position not as good. Offside just set up better which is more critical the shorter you go.

@cragginshred -28 most certainly is a tournament line length! Actually any line length is but -28 definitely is. Literally about mid-pack for M3-M5 national ranking, 84 buoys. Not a Nationals tourny contending score, but a nice score none the less. Better than about half the tourny skiers out there (real ones, not internet), qualifies for West Regionals. Nice skiing. It's ski year 2018, just started, go to a couple local C's! just do it, do it, do it till you're satisfied, what it really is.....

Really need video for this. But bet you are too slow and on back foot at the moment you turn to go. 1. If ski is hunting for an edge that means you are not on edge. From the moment you start your move out from wakes be on one edge or the other till exit gates. Do not go flat, if flat you slide back on the boat and in towards the wakes, very bad. 100% front foot on left side of foot. Possible you fin tuned the turn-in out of it... It was begging you to give it an edge. 2. Increase your speed till you feel fast. Not out of control, but enough to be a touch uncomfortable. 100% front foot on left side of foot. If you are truly wide enough the speed is your friend. 3. 100% front foot on left side of foot.

The exact wording from AWSA: a) Class C and F tournaments may use 2018, 2017, 2016, or 2015 Approved towboat(s) (current and three years prior). Class C & F tournaments may use 2008 to 2014 AWSA Approved Tournament boats equipped with Zero Off with the approval of their Regional AWSA Towboat Committee member (or Chair(s) of the AWSA Towboat Committee. b) In all instances where a boat older than the current model year is used, the manufacturer must also have a boat on the approved list for 2018. The local organizing committee (LOC) may apply to its Regional AWSA Towboat Committee member (or Chair(s) of the AWSA Towboat Committee) for use of an OLDER model year towboat. Consideration will be given to the condition of the boat, speed control system and version of speed control software in the boat. Older boats must follow current Towboat Policy Insurance Requirements. Primary change here is Class C and F tournaments may use 2018, 2017, 2016, or 2015 Approved towboat(s) (current and three years prior). No additional approval required for 2015 and newer. @lpskier is correct, you could always ask the committee for approval for the use of an older boat.

91 was they year everything changed, the compression molded wakeboard was introduced. It was almost all skiing and real DD ski boats before then. As wakeboarding took off the wakeboard v-drive lake destroyer was developed and water has never been the same. Mastercraft and Nautique were the "big two" with Malibu's and Centurion ebbing in and out, Centurion no ski boat for a while there. Brendell had some good ski boats, Brendella and MB back in the day. Gekko died but recently tried resurgence of their ski boat but looks like only wakeboard again, at least on their site. As @DW said about 7-10:1 wake:tourney ski boat ratio in recent history.

Dude, listen to your kid: April 2: "he says it feels more comfortable with his LFF" April 9: "When I straight up asked him him on the dock - which foot forward do you want... LFF"

Sweet! If you haven't already measure the front binding to be sure it's in the stock position. Easiest to do with the rear boot off.

@APB Goode no heritage and not authentic? Dude, the 9100, the 9700, the MidRides, the Nano and years of heavy support for tournament skiing. I love Radar and am a Radar skier but the only "heritage" ski they have had so far is the Vapor. I am not a Goode lover or hater but recognize and respect what they have done and do for the sport. Eating our own is not good for the sport in any way. We need to be fair to those that support us. "an already stale competitive environment" Over 600 AWSA Nationals competitors and thousands at local AWSA competitions, with their time and money, seem to disagree. I encourage you to join AWSA and come ski a tournament or two. Join the party and you might find you like it, perhaps you may bring ways for us to improve. It is certainly better that the beach/dock/keyboard.

http://www.intleague.com Over 20 states, 100's of events. From the INT site: Rick Stocks, founder of the INT League, first started hosting amateur events on Greenlake in Seattle, Washington, in the early 1980′s with the Lake Sammamish Water Ski Club. As President of the Club, he found that even though the club hosted AWSA sanctioned “C” events, most of the members did not compete in the events themselves. This was due to the fact that the caliber of competition was intimidating. No one wants to always lose. Rick’s idea was to make the competition fun and based on ability levels so that all members and their families could compete and where new people could be introduced to the sport of waterskiing. Greenlake, in the middle of Seattle, was the perfect place. The Lake Sammamish Water Ski Club is still hosting events on Greenlake with the INT League and with a limit of 150 competitors, the word is out – “preregister or you won’t get in.” Stocks Family has been doing this since 1993, 24 years experience and refinement of ability based. I was involved with one of the first INT tournaments, we rented Koppert Lake with direct involvement with Rick and Larry Fischer. We did a few after that as well so I am very familiar with INT and ability based. If you want ability based you owe it to yourself to go to a couple. With 24 years experience they have it down!

@bishop8950 Yep, been to several Nat's. Interesting response as we agree, "Yes, this qualifies as something that should hit the CJ radar."

As a tower judge usually not but do if supplied. As a boat judge I don't think I have ever not had paper in the boat, and use it. As a scorer I do and have always written it down along with entering into the computer. Having the boat judge and scorer paper work rarely needed but a godsend when you do. Its not that hard 'cause if I can handle it then..... @bishop8950 Why have CJ on speed dial? They are supposed to be on site the entire time. Instances like you described are exactly what the CJ is for, CJ should have been involved as soon as there was a contention between officials.

+1 Waterskiers are the wealthiest cheapest SOB's i've ever met. Luv ya all but yep.

I don't see why someone with a high score of 107 and an average of 106.17 is not too good and can win but someone with a high score of 108.5 and an average of 106.5 it too good to win.

@jcmccavit To really know with your boat exactly, which may vary from others, you gotta put it in the water. Float it with your six people, full tank, 1000lbs gear as you will run it. Mark the waterline in a few spots (dry board pens or duct tape pieces work, it's temporary), pull it out, level to waterline marks and measure. Measure fins, prop and rudder. Done it for sailboats that have been "accessorized" extensively. That's stopped or at idle, running will be less, getting on plane will be more (hard to figure that one). BTW, is this a real or theoretical question? 1000 lbs gear? 166 lbs per person of gear? In a 196 with six bodies? Why? In a tournament lake?

@ajgear At her level sure she could ski on a Vapor or a VTX or most of the shortline buoy skis. IMHO she will have better success and therefore more fun with more of a mid-range ski like the Lyric, Senate, CX and the like. My wife runs the course up through 30mph and loves her older Lyric. She is going to demo soon the new Lyric (2016 Vapor based shape), a Senate Lithium and something else. Will be interesting to see how a Senate Lithium works out for her. When I got the Lyric from Perfski they but a Radar adjustable fin block on it for her. Set it at stock Senate, made a couple minor tweaks that worked for her and have left it since.

I received this as a PM regarding this thread: "Couldn't agree with you more. We always hear about how ballers are business owners, top execs, etc. Not a SINGLE ONE OF THEM would accept this if it was their business that had secured the rights to an event only to be undercut by a competitor that was contributing zero $$ to the event. Somehow I doubt Monster Energy would be happy if Red Bull ran a concurrent event, at the same site on the same dates, as a Monster NASCAR event. Or that the NASCAR organization would be short-sighted enough to let Red Bull do that. But then again, as the ballers' thinking goes, I guess business principles are suspended in the magical world of the water ski industry." Apparently the sender did not feel comfortable posting a dissenting opinion on this thread, and I understand why. But to the sender, thank you. I appreciate your message and it was compelling enough I felt it should be posted and you should be heard. Thanks.

@Bruce_Butterfield In reply but won't re-post yours for brevity: 1. A title sponsor didn't demand change. It is SMRR/AWSA unilaterally made the change. It is not what Goode signed up and paid for. You are correct, if not in the best interest of the organization they should part ways. Apparently not kicking Goode to the curb and honoring (note, word honor there) the intent (perhaps letter) of the agreement previously consummated was deemed in the best interest as that was what was done. Arguably a good deal, please elaborate, how?. 20 hrs (5hrs a day) lake time allocated to maximum 50 skiers during Nationals for BOS with 20 hrs lake time (5hrs a day) allocated to all skiers 600+ for practice/site familiarization. How is that good for numbers? Way more skiers get water time opening up that BOS resource for practice. Respect you but I really think you missed the call on this one. 2. "Many sporting events have a "Title Sponsor" and numerous lesser tier sponsors." Sure, but how many direct competitors? Why be a title sponsor if your direct competitors get the same access to the event population for less? It is common marketing and promotion 101 in all markets to pay for exclusivity as it is beneficial to both event holder and sponsor short and long term. 3. If the BOS tourny had been run with no sponsor or a new sponsor that does not confilct with an existing, contracted, with terms previously agreed to for consideration sponsor then I believe it would be fine. Just my WAG though. BTW, seems Horton indicated the BOS Cash format is not viable without a sponsor? 4. What? Grow the sport, long term viability? What does that mean, please explain. Most of the posters on this thread (a pile on thread it seems) appear to me to just type terms like that jingoistically but don't think a couple steps further to execution or ramification. You typically go further. Please do because I don't see how this Radar BOS 50 max skier deal living or dying affects long term viability of AWSA skiing at all. The concept of tournament(s) parallel to Nat's is another issue, not at the fore as not addressed at all by Goode or AWSA/SMRR. Just a Radar BOS 50 max skier added ex post facto to Goode's deal.

@skidawg Big money? No, I don't have any idea of the actual investment (money, non-monetary support) to be title sponsor. In fact, I would bet you probably have a better idea than I (if you don't actually know the investment). But a rational analysis would indicate, relative to Nat's budget, it is significant. Straw arguments are useful here: -If it is $50 then SMRR/AWSA could tell Goode to pound sand and go with Radar. How pissed could Goode be, only out $50. -If it is $50,000 then Goode kinda some punch, by far the biggest income line item. And they should be pissed after spending (donating in this case) $50K. SMRR/AWSA not necessarily kiss their ass but give them anything reasonable they ask. $50K sponsor money plus entry fee's, that could buy a bitchn' Nat's or line SMRR's pockets. The reality is likely somewhere in between. Goode put in enough that SMRR/AWSA (and probably has some contract, stupid if they don't) so can't blow them off, yet not enough to just blow Radar off (@surdej said couple weeks negotiating?). But Goode apparently put in enough or had a contract (if contractually then SMRR/AWSA agreed so must have been the best deal for SMRR/AWSA at the time) that gave them the punch to kill the Radar thing. I agree with you "it would be awesome if there was Goode nats, Obrien big dawg, radar BOS cash prize & Connelly US Open all in the same venue during the same week". That would be a killer event to go to. Some issues: -Where you going to hold it? Need lots O'Lakes -How long? All the BOS Cash lovers seem to be the same people wanting a weekend Nationals. Nat's, BD, BOS, USO all in one weekend or even 4 days? To do so leave lots of people on shore (more likely at home) that otherwise ski. Uh, that's less participation. I further disagree it would increase participation. It would just be all the same people skiing. Big Dawg (what, 40 elites?), BOS Cash (50 max, anybody), US Open (only the uber elites [very cool by the way]) and Nat's at 600+. Men 4 and Men 5 alone at Nat's is more numbers than the other three combined. It just does not move the needle. My mantra: Fixing participation is not done at the top, it's done at the bottom. In reality any guy into -32 and any gal into -22 is at the top end. Of all the people riding skis out there, how many can run -22/-32? Not many, the perspective of AWSA private lake skiers gets a bit skewed on this I think. You say "All the ski companies are set up to sell at nationals every year, having an accompanying event by another sponsor will only bring more participation to the table." I don't believe it would bring any significant increase in participation. But I could be wrong. So hey, let's give it a try. But to try it, do not sell title rights to one company without telling them there will be an accompanying event at the time. Be up front and that is all part of the negotiation. To slide it in later is deceptive and total BS business practice.

@wish yes, we have a participation problem. But I am not so sure at Nat's. Kinda stable at a bit over 600 for a while. I don't want to bag on the BOS Cash thing, I don't, but with an objective look a BOS Cash Tourney is essentially insignificant as far as bringing in new participants to Nats. As a series of events it is a great series, for those that can afford the entry fee, travel expense, days off, 50 and maxed at 50 skiers at a time. I applaud Horton for doing something, I really do. I can't say I am doing the same. But how many new Nat's skiers does it really draw? I have said before and say again, anything done to or around Nat's is just stirring the same pot, mucking with the same pool, making some of the pool happy, some upset and most are indifferent. Love or hate Goode, $h!+ing on a company stepping up and doing what is asked to be the title sponsor of a big event is dangerous. Why do the work and be the title sponsor when you can slide in later, essentially on the cheap. What kind of precedent does that set for other companies thinking of sponsoring skiing. Perhaps BMX (or zip line basket weaving, or downhill unicycle slalom) will treat them better and away the $ go... Only so many companies interested in niche sports. Crapping on companies in the sport is death. I don't know Dave, don't ski on his skis but he and that company have been a consistent supporter of tournament skiing. $h!+ on him and he will probably still stick around, he's a skier and has an irrational passion for it. Like a lot of us, we can feel we are wronged (justly or unjustly) and still ski because we are skiers. It's what we are. The dilettantes (commitment level not skill level) come and go. If we want to grow participation numbers we need to get the 28mph to -22 skier, I believe exponentially more numbers of those out there than ski Nat's. And some of those will be skiers, addicts to Red Ball Fever, hooked for life. That is where growth is and saving the sport. How to find and hook them, don't know, but lets not kill off our few, very few, industry companies in the process.

Wow! Goode puts up big money to sponsor an event and get $h!+ for it. If they are the title sponsor I fully understand not wanting a competing company sponsoring an event at the same site at the same time!. There are threads and threads talking about how to get sponsors and vendors for events, giving them ROI. Here we have a sponsor who stepped up and paid for exclusive sponsor rights, and after doing so get their sponsorship diluted and undercut later. If I was putting up the cash I would be pissed. I would demand them out of there or give me my money back. I have no particular love or hate for Goode, I actually ski on Radar and think the Radar guys are great. Had a 2014 Vapor, on a 2016 now and if the demo of a 2018 at Nats is positive I will buy one without demoing anything else. I think sponsoring this Tourney and essentially buying half a lake from SMRR was a great guerrilla marketing move by Radar. I applaud Horton for trying to put this together. I was very surprised there was a ski company sponsor. As Horton said in another thread numerically this tourney was "a drop in the bucket." 600+ skiers go to Nats, 50 skiers total in this BOS deal. A good number of participants if not most already skiing in Nats. So growing attendance maybe by 20-25 skiers at best at a cost of the practice lake time cut in half (that's huge negative impact to the other ~575+ skiers) and undercutting the big dollar title sponsor. It's only 50, total, only 50.... My vision of a tournament parallel to nats would be a non sponsored $50 entry Class C, every skier has to be an official or do something that moves them forward to being an official (dock start, judge). A new one each day so a winner each day, maybe mix up format with ability based or handicap to determine winners. Miami puts on bitchin' 3-event C's for $50 entry. But then I have done nothing to make that happen and kudo's to Horton for actually doing something. Short sighted and killing the sport is not giving sponsors what they pay for. (Nice posting with you guys, I expect to be eviscerated and banned).

@ajgear What level skier is she? Intermediate/Advanced is too vague. Is it intermediate shortline -28 to -35? Is it intermediate open water non-course 28-30mph, turnin' hard with big spray? Either all good as long as she is having fun but significantly different skis would be appropriate.