BRY

@elr Hmmm, a dislike for that? I could see a disagree maybe, but a dislike? So come on dude, post your opinion! Why the dislike? Step up and join the conversation, all perspectives represented make the conversation stronger.

@Horton Yes, "There always stories about stretching the rules at some sites." Some are probably true. But what I have experienced and choose to believe (perhaps head in the sand) is that most are on the up and up, people trying to do it right. I do not believe the sport is rife with cheating, though I am sure a few do. Knowing my friends I believe they don't and they would shut down any crap they see, we are all officials. So matching my scores against theirs is valid for me and works for me. On that note if there actually is significant cheating going on, enough to essentially invalidate the ranking list, going to an "honor" system is better? There is a lot to do to cheat a C or better tourney. Self reporting is better? My experience in competition, sports and otherwise: -There are those who will always cheat, even if they don't need to. It's what they do. Their justifications are awesome. Their personality type (flaw). -There are those who will cheat, even if they don't need to, if they think they can get away with it. -There are those who will cheat if they think they can get away with it and when they see others doing it, not cheating but "part of the game". -There are those who will not cheat. There is a likelihood to get busted by an honorable person at a class C or above. Several people involved at minimum to pull it off. So risk/reward for cheaters. The Dentist great example, actually a pretty good skier but just had to cheat and took risk. For many others risk too high to cheat (humiliated, banned ect) for reward (it's just amateur skiing). Self reporting pretty much eliminates risk so many more will "inflate" their scores. Enough to my belief that the list itself becomes meaningless. Back to the OP, I like the ranking list. I believe it helps greatly to keep us going and is not a detriment.

@klindy I believe class C and above are homogenized enough that scores at different tournaments are equivalent. So we compete on who has more buoy's on the ranking list. Easy, don't have to be in same physical location. Works across Divisions for us, all 55K.

I am one who likes the ranking list. Actually I have friends all over the country and it allows us to compete with one another. I find it inspiring and humbling at the same time. I do not see it as a downside to AWSA at all, but a strength. Concur with those pro comments above.

Have to qualify that a bit in that insurance is important as far as coverage for tournaments. The very first club I was in, a long time ago on water far away, pretty much disbanded as we didn't have/couldn't get liability insurance. Public water but couldn't get access without insurance.

The Pro who lives on our lake, an MC guy, has said the 3-blade is better for jump and 4-blade better for slalom. Either will work fine either way but for best ride that's his thoughts. Quite sure there would be Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act issues if MC denied a warranty claim based on 3rd party products alone or who did the service. If can be shown you did all the required work by the required time with conforming products you are all good. Example if oil used conforms to the specifications listed by MC then can't deny warranty for using it.

#4 Some of those Connelly wood skis were art. I had a Hook that was awesome but it got "hooked" out of my boat, sad day. #3 Some of those older HO's were bad ass, very cool graphics. #2 Fisher #1 was first carbon ski that elevated to the level of the Connelly woodies. Loved that ski. #1 SansRival SR2 has to be seen to believe though. The perfection of the carbon under the clear coat. No waver, no bubble, no squish, all perfectly aligned. And that clear coat, perfect. Truely No Rival to that. Seemed it needed different settings for every 2 degrees of water temp though....

I like my In-Tow spectra handle, bent with the cross bar. Definitely lighter than the Masterline's. I have had Masterline handles and they are great too, but I like the feel of the In-Tow better. With all the layers in a poly handle not sure any more stretch there than the spectra. My elbows like the spectra bent best. If anyone wants to see good pictures of the In-Tow handle with cross bar look at the current Water Skier magazine (Jan/Feb 2017). Page 26 Lori Krueger, page 31 Dane Mechler, page 46 & 47 Seth Stisher. There's this Freddie Winter guy that uses In-tow too. Brenda used to be a 3-eventer, though I don't think she skies anymore. She has been making ropes and handles a long time, herself, to order. For a lot of big names and a lot more no-names. She understands what she is selling, is passionate about it (passionate about ropes & handles is a little weird, but cool, good for us). Anyone who implies otherwise is being unfair and doing a disservice to the water ski community.

From the 2017 Nationals - WBP's Discussion with AWSA/p1 thread: 6. Need the ability to host additional tournaments throughout Nationals. These events would be sanctioned as the following ski year only if that event was complete at Nationals. Straw pole (non‐binding; for informational use only) Strongly opposed ‐ 0 Yes ‐ 17 Undecided ‐ 0 Seems idea already presented to AWSA BOD and though informal, non-binding, seems strong support as no undecided/opposing votes. I think having a tournament in concert with Nat's does not violate the intention of the rule not allowing other sanctions at same time. Such a tournament does not detract from Nationals or Nationals participation, it most likely enhances both. I understand the intent of the rule is to prevent tournaments elsewhere, hundreds or thousands of miles away, from detracting from Nationals. Say a tournament in Bakersfield when Nationals are in Texas would be a no.

I don't get this "States" vs Regional's. To what end? Replace as qualifier for Nat's or what? What's is that going to fix/make better? No matter how you slice the pie, it's gonna be the same pie (pool of skiers). May add or lose a few but either way needle not moving mucking with the near top end. If you split up CA are they then really "State" tourny's? What about FL and likely TX also? If not split and a pre-req for Nat's FL and TX tough big time tournaments. Then what to do with NH, DE, ND, SD and the like? Skiers in those states, some very good. But do they have enough to even put on a tournament (without outside help)? 1 or 2 skiers in a few divisions with many divisions empty. Not equivalent to a CA, FL, TX state win. Could combine some of the small states but then, ahh, that's a Regional's.... All sorts of fun things can and should be done with State tournaments. Make them more fun and more compelling. But to replace Regional's, not seeing it.

@Buoyhead69 Sounds like about 450 sets or less on that ski. With your speed, line and size that D3 is in it's prime and good for a while (assuming bought new). Get well over 1000 sets then look at it for getting soft. With D3 probably good for double that. 67" should be great for you, particularly as you get more 34 going. Fins can be a rabbit hole unless you have a reason to adjust. Same with changing skis. I'm a Radar guy but your Quest is a great ski. No better ski, just different skis. Only reason to change is if you want your ski doing different. Best test for settings and skis: Are you always comfortable on the ski, trust it, particularly as the pass gets away from you? Does it seem to help you out of trouble when you F up? Does it feel better and instill confidence as you go faster/shorter? If yes to these questions don't change a thing, go ski the crap out of it. If no, analyze further. What specifically would you like the ski to do different? Get @SkiJay's book and do the setting change to address that. If the ski is doing something that you are changing technique to prevent, particularly stalls to OTF's, then definitely look at settings/ski's. The ski should work to accommodate your skiing, your skiing should not work to accommodate the ski. Ran through 2 sets of Vapor Binding's in about 450 sets? Wow, that seems off. I'd send an e-mail to @eddie_roberts_jr and see how this can be mitigated. I don't use Radar boots but from what I have seen the last way longer than that. For where your skiing is, if you feel good in the Radar's stick with them. Just figure out how to stop killing them. Take that $1,600+ for new ski and get some top level coaching in spring, somewhere warm. Best money on skiing you will ever spend.

@espnman A couple things seem odd. 33.7 mph from 3025rpm does not sound right. Most older boats with 1:1 ran a 13x13 and 32 was ~3200, 34 was ~3400 and so forth. Boats with reduction gears ran bigger props and higher RPM. What boat/prop do you have? Sure your getting 33.7 from 3025? PP Classic is rpm based, has no idea about speed. The "MPH" in PPC are just labels assigned to a group of settings. Key are SSD, Baseline RPM, Wind Adjust, Crew Weight, Skier Weight, Kx and Px (switch). PPC also needs magnets. Not just for timing but to trigger SSD but seemed to chase time as well as RPM (seemed to give hot segments after slow segments). Setting baselines out of course, no magnets so no SSD, seems you are setting for a "out of course situation". Go "in course" with magnets and SSD comes into play and different result (speed). Checking out of course may be root of speed issue, just a theory, been a long time since I have run PPC. Used to be quite good at it. As far as your skiing perhaps the month off so rusty plus water temp change was enough for this issue to bite you. You just managed it in summer. So, dumping everything else, what times are you getting in course for 1 ball, 3 ball, and end time? ABT is best but those three can illuminate whats going on. When I was in WA State in spring we would take boats from the Western side to the Eastern side chasing heat. Left 50ish water for 80ish water. Temp and mineral content difference between the lakes necessitated we reset baselines. Drop boat in and go reset. Same before tournaments then, checked and set every boat every speed baselines, in course with ABT.

I am in an unusual location where there is lots of easy year round tournament lakes, a couple public, but no good open water lakes. Used to ski open water a couple times a year where I used to live. Would start with my opener first set then start one line shorter after that. Would go short as I could while still maintaining form and control, skied aggressively and with tempo. Just enjoying the feeling of it, the turn, the hookup, the blast across the wake. Fun to just go, ride the ski and not worry about buoys for a little bit. First set open water always a bit odd, almost hard, without a buoy to dictate where to turn.

@bf` Is that MD or NC? Looks very nice. Wide, room for side-by-side slalom? Would make for some cool head-to-heads.

I've never had issues with pre-curved and really prefer them. Much less bunching in palm. Regarding 41-tails if you are in-between sizes without skiing them the they are perfect, get the smaller size. Ski a set or two and they will fit perfect. Should be very hard to get on new, un-skied. I use liners with mine but have to take 1st couple sets on new ones without, can't get the liners in till skied. Then real tight with liners a set or two. After that absolutely perfect till the neoprene falls off around the kevlar palm.

@SkiJay One of the all time best BOS quotes there: "If you're slow getting stacked and have bad handle control, you should probably not be obsessing over your ZO letter yet." Needs to get popped on a T-shirt somewhere.

@Ralph Lee Very nice, great you help out at the tournaments you go to. You just didn't pop up on the USA Water Ski site, no Ralph Lee's at all but perhaps an error. So... which tournaments have you been participating in that use "an un surveyed or unofficial course, and using unqualified judges" and are being certified as C? Inquiring minds want to know... BTW, neat chart on page 115 of the rule book lists all the requirements for the differing tournament classes. Shows course must be at least measured (typically surveyed now as easier with modern equipment) for C and what level and how many officials.

"If the line is measured, the time is good and the boat is straight, its a record. It seems really lazy," "I've tried to read the rule book," "Seems like every single person on Facebook can afford the technology" "I have not followed the different classes of tournaments." Some classic quotes there. T-shirt in the making? Or just a little trolling to see what can be caught? @Ralph Lee Join AWSA and come out to a tournament. You will most likely have some fun, meet some great people and catch a clue about AWSA's tournaments.

I was for a while and saw some, but left when it was obvious the weather had set in. This time of year usually clear blue sky's with puffy clouds till ~2, crap rolls in, inch or two of rain, clears by 5-5:30 and gorgeous till dark. I get most my sets in around 6 (don't ski Okee but close by). Today it is solid, still socked in, raining with lightening here and there. A front pushing through.

@dave2ball Nobody has promoted "officialls from only one region". The proposal, from above: -The final decision and selection of officials ultimately belongs to SCPB -The SCPB selects the Officials from lists provided by each region I don't see how adding "slalom only" drivers can add to the workload of 3 event drivers. It can only reduce the 3 event driver workload. Every pull a slalom only driver pulls is one less pull 3 event drivers pull, i.e. less workload. "and the slalom only drivers may get priority on the premier slalom events." COOL! AWESOME! Get the premier drivers pulling the premier events! 3-event or Slalom only, put the best driver in the seat! Some of the best slalom drivers are 3-event too! But only 3-event is a small pool and leaves some premier drivers out. Arvin (Bakersfield) would be great for a Nats... but... but... some club there has to put in a bid. Some club there needs to want to. There are lots of places that would be great for a Nats, but some club there needs to step up and do it. Crazy big commitment. I have immense respect for any club that puts forth a bid. I have no disrespect or ill will for any club that feels it is not for them. SCBP steps up time and time again with serious bids, bailed the whole thing out once (or no Nats), so Kudo's and respect to them.

@Bill22 Top 8 not set yet. From what I can tell Neveu, Asher, Degasperi and some guy called Smith (sounds like an alias) have yet to ski Rd1.

12 BD into 41 1st round, 9 Open men (so far, top 4? still waiting to go) and 2 Open ladies into 41. Skiers lighting it up like the lightening!

@Wolfeie You indicated "the cost makes it not worth hosting the event". Did you lose money on the event or just not make enough? How much do you feel your site would need to make for it to be worthwhile for you and your site? Is money the only issue? It's a huge load of work to pull off. My understanding (based on posts here and elsewhere by people who seem to be SMRR people) is SMRR made about $20K-$25K, around $33+ per skier in their pocket all said and done. Not meaning to be aggressive or call you out with this but truly, what would it take for a Bako lake, or set of lakes, to be interested? If there needs to be change the what is the target for the change to hit? Props out to Broadside for putting on the show this year. Props to West Palm for putting in a serious bid for next year. Anyone else at all? Anyone? @Wolfeie You all could always put in a bid, with your "officials per diem" as a hard stipulation. Who knows, you might win!

I like most of it. Would be interesting to know the rationale for 54 weeks, two weeks before the previous Nats, to set the level. Last chance tourny's and Nat's excluded for that year's levels. I would think 51 weeks would be better. Get all the skiers changing divisions moved and include last chance's and Nat's. Seems that would be a better basis as it allows scores from the full previous year and includes only current skiers in each division for the current year. Would be interesting to hear the rationale both ways on the "LOC control of officials." SCPB wants it and AWSA clearly (2 yes, 14 no) want it. My guess is SCPB wants to have the "best" officials available used and AWSA wants the political method (my bias showing, could be wrong). Plenty of politics to go around either way. Clear arguments for/against from each proponent would be great. BTW I am not an SCPB member.

At approximately 360 passes at -28 your not close to wearing a ski out unless it is defective or abused. I had a Fisher Orange for 4.5 years that went soft. In a span of about 2-3 weeks I couldn't get off the ball and it either wouldn't turn or suddenly over turn. Flexed it relative to a buddies Orange he got at the same time and mine had definitely gone Gumby. Lived in WA at the time so 5 month season, only skied weekends (few other days here and there) but figure over 500 passes per season. So over 2000 passes on that ski, 220 lb skier, then -22 to -35. I had a 2014 Vapor 2yrs, now in Florida so year round. Conservatively over 2000 passes on that ski. It was still fine when I sold it after getting a 2016. All -28 to mid -38 with a rare -39 in there. After roughly estimating my number of passes seems I should be better. Hmmm..... Say mid May to mid Sept season, 4 months, 180 passes is 11.25 passes a week. Round up that's two 6 pass sets per week. #1 thing for you, ski more. Get a third set in per week and you number of passes goes up 50%. Get in shape for 8 pass sets and gain 33% more passes. As Jean-Luc would say, "Make it so". #2 go for a week somewhere for coaching. For $1500-$2000 (price of new ski) a week in Orlando with 3-4 days coaching with rest day for other fun seems doable. #3 thing for you, go full in. Ski more, get coaching, and get a 2017 Vapor or 2017 ARC with Reflex, MOB or Radar front boot with RTP or half-boot rear (R-style, HRT or similar. No full boot rear). Best bet, go to Orlando, buy a Vapor from perfski and go to Rini's where he will set it up for free!!!!! Caution, one glance at Disney and that $2K is gone by lunch.... It's only $, do it while you can.