sunvalleylaw

@fu_man, yep, that is an '88 Seaswirl that my wife and I purchased in '93 when I lived at a lake, and had lived at my parents' house on Puget Sound, and was skiing a lot. Couldn't afford a comp boat, and this one worked well in the salt water. It had the Johnson 120, which we considered better than a Merc for the salt. It pulled pretty well down at sea level, but I can really tell the difference up here at altitude. I re-propped and it was better, but my son pretty much has to max it out to get it up to any sort of speed for me. I think, but don't know, given the speedo not really working, that I am skiing between 32 and 34 behind it, but I can slow it down when I leverage. I have loved the boat, and it remains a nice family ski boat, but I am going to have to change my "situation" if I want to really train. That, or keep that as the family boat and find a way to train on one of the local comp lakes behind someone else's boat. I grew up behind a similarly sized Glastron (think "live and let die" movie) modified v/tri-hull. That thing planed out immediately and pulled well, but drew so little water that I could pull the rear end around some when i tried the course that was out in the bay. Skiing behind my buddie's S/N 196 in the first vid really opened up my eyes. Looking and saving for a mid 90's SNOB or similar now. It has all the candy with ZO and all that. It was a bit intimidating at first, but then I got to feel how good position would allow be to generate speed so much more easily. Even 32 felt faster than what I feel behind my boat, especially as I began to pull.

@ShaneH, yeah, I completely agree. i just thought I would try this to see if I could see anything to work on. It is easier to see at full hidef res, but perspective is still off. If you do see something in the other vid, @ShaneH or @fu_man (or anyone), or I look any better (this was a pretty brutal reality check), let me know! I am not going to post any more vid until I can find or replace my other camera, or get some better vid from someone else. Thanks for taking the time with this stuff. I sure appreciate it.

@ShaneH, I say that to the kids I coach in the alpine ski freeride team all the time. Hard to find the middle if you don't know where the ends are. As I try to re-boot my water skiing, I really, really need to remember it.

Here is one more. I wish I could upload a higher quality version. Youtube is not allowing me to upload more than 15 frames a second. But anyway, the light is better. I think this is somewhat representative of where I am right now, though sometimes I have runs that just seem to come together better and feel stronger. Not quite there yet this season or on this new to me ski. I don't feel like I am swinging the ski out from my body as well as I know I can do. Also, for perspective, check out how the GoPro lens takes a pic from a few feet away from the boat. Not really built for this kind of vid. http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w92/sunvalleylaw/GOPR0252.jpg

Ok, thanks. good advice. There is a clinic coming up sometime in August near here. I may give it a try if we are in town.

Thanks guys. @ShaneH, thanks for taking the time to look and comment! That makes a lot of sense. I believe you are right, that I did not pull out far enough, though I think the fisheye lens makes it look even worse than it is. It is definitely there though. On a couple of the free runs, you can see me pull out a little better. Since i have not been in a course for so long, I am going to have to orient myself again to what the optimal position is. Also, I never leaned a one handed gate, so I may have to look at that once I get more comfortable. I also notice as I watch this vid, and another bunch that I got free skiing yesterday, that it does not look like I commit as @fu_man says and hold a strong consistent edge and angle on the turn in. Re: that pass, I got all but one of the balls on that pass, but as I had not been in the course in so long, I didn't really even try to make the gate per se as I was unsure of my timing. I just tried to be early to one ball and go from there. I had to wait for it as I had turned in early and missed the gate entirely. The other thing I noticed in this vid is it looks as though I am letting up on the edge before the wake, rather than progressively developing lean and pressure into and across the wake, as I used to try and do. I don't want to start trying for a big pull fest out there that is excessive, but it looks like I need to do better than I was doing in that vid. Yesterday, I tried some pulling drills to try to experiment with leveraged position, and found that I have work to do, especially on my offside. (left forward guy). Going back to some linked "turn ins" and some pulling drills like I used to do back when I was skiing more is in the plans.

I also am on a keyboard much of the day. I guess I didn't put two and two together. I get issues nordic skiing too, but on the other side (outside) of the elbow from poling. I need to get a new line and handle anyway. Might as well check this one out. I like that it is longer.

@Horton Thanks for the review. As I return to trying to ski harder, the inside of my right elbow is starting to bug me. Sounds like a handle like this might help. Previously, I have always liked a relatively long, straight handle.

Ok, I faced my fears. Vid posted here, with hopefully a closer view to come. http://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/5807/newb-video-a-quest-for-a-better-leveraged-position EDIT: Ok, here are the vids directly. GoPro doesn't work that great from the boat, but here is some ugly re-beginner for you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rduaQyZNd7M&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rduaQyZNd7M&feature=youtu.be My first vid. Man, @Than said not to get discouraged about looking at your vid, but . . . Since I got invited to the comp lake for the first time, I gave the course a try for the first time in over 10 years, and did some free skiing at 28 off at 34. I see myself breaking at the hips some as I tired, and I can see that my arms are not anywhere near as close to my body as I want. The course run (first pass) was 15 off at 30. The free runs were 28 off, first at 32, then 34. The wind was blowing pretty good, and pass direction was "slackier" than the other for me. Well, it is what it is. I can improve from here. Right off, I can see I need to spend a lot of time with @Than's article on the leveraged position. I realize that you can't see that much giving the camera (GoPro from the boat, fish eye lens). But if you have any comments, please feel free. I will try to get some better vid up later, when I can find my darned other camera again. Meanwhile I may post another vid of some freeskiing from today, with better light at least. That is my host Chaz you see driving his really nice '09 Nautiqe 196. Makes me want to try to find an older SNOB to replace my old outboard! The lake is at Black Butte Ranch, one of two lakes there, near Shoshone, ID. Apparently both LaPoint brothers, and Jennifer Leachman, have graced the water there. Though it was a windy day, it was a treat for me to get a couple pulls here. Hopefully more to come.

Here is where I skied last night. First time at a man made lake! It is only my GoPro, as I can't find my other camera right now, but at least you can see the lake! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rduaQyZNd7M&feature=youtu.be Black Butte Ranch, near Shoshone, ID.

@gregy , after thinking about the stuff in Than's article, and seeing some vid, some pulling (position) drills, and linked turn ins from both side of the wake like you did is what I think I need.

Nice!

black butte, Idaho. Excited! thunderstorm right now but it will move thru .

Thanks guys. @ToddL, I crack 190 during winter, alpine ski season, and get down into the mid 180s in the summer the last couple years. I am going to try to drop that range to 185 in the winter and 180 and under during the summer, or even a bit lower. We'll see how that goes. But @Marco was having success on a 67" at 190. Well, I have the 68". I will ski it for now and keep my eye open for a 67" with inserts for D3 bindings. There is a 67" on ski-it-again right now, but drilled for HO. Once I find a 67", I can try both and keep the one I like best. Any of you guys have a 67" RCX in your ski closet gathering dust?

These pics don't suck . . .

@skijay, thanks! That makes sense. I guess though, that I learned over all these years to enjoy that fast, hooky feeling. More stuff to unlearn, as if I want to progress in the course, I will need to learn to like the other, more stable and forgiving feel that is wider. I always thought the salt water thing was due to buoyancy, but had never considered temp. When I first skied on a lake after getting more into my skiing way back when, I hated that slow feel with all that fat, soft water hitting me from the ski riding deeper. I liked the less water, but more pressure hitting my spray leg, like someone hat turned the pressure washer on me. More stuff to unlearn. Not about a hooky, quick turn and a hard pull now. Gotta learn to let the sustainable angle develop. Since I live intermountain and have for years, I am more used to fresh now, though usually I am on fairly cool water. I will have to pay closer attention to the differences between the high, cooler lakes, and the lower reservoir and ski lake, and see what I think. It might relate to my ski length question too, in my other thread, as I am used to the greater buoyancy.

Hi! long time skier here, but new to learning about the course, modern equipment, etc. Can someone explain the differences I am hearing about regarding water temp and what it does to how a ski rides and behaves? What about salt water? I grew up skiing on salt water, and know from experience that cold salt water feels much different from the fresh I have been on. (I tend to like it). I don't notice as much on the fresh water yet with regard to temp, but am curious. Thanks!

I have skied for years on a 66" Duvall 900s. Mostly freeskiing, but would run a course if I could. Last 10 years have been occasional free skiing. Never seriously. Getting back into it now. I purchased a used 68" D3 Nomad RCX. From the charts I can find, (see here: http://www.hotwater.cc/index.php?id=146009) it looks like the right length for me at lower speeds, but if and when I get up to 34, it looks like I am on the bubble or the ski is a bit long. I am 185 or so pounds, and if anything, will drop a little weight in summer with cycling. I grew up on salt, and cold water in the PNW, and am used to my ski feeling like it is riding high and fast on the water. As far as where I am in skiing, I have always freeskied at a fast speed, as close to 36 as the boat would take me (old outboard). I would slow the boat during my pull though. Now that I hope to get into the course, (and will be behind a comp boat), I suppose I will be dropping my speed and working the -15 off up to speed, and etc. What do you guys think about length for me?

Wow, I haven't skied with my rear foot out since I used to have to drag a leg to get the ski planing behind small boats a long time ago. Sounds like an interesting drill.

Bump and Update. The ski is feeling a bit better, as I get used to skiing more again. When I am using better form, it is starting to perform. It still feels a bit long as compared to my brother's white top one which is the same size, but I think he raised the tip of the fin a bit. I am going to ski some more, focusing on the stuff in @Than's article, then consider adjusting the fin. I also may see my brother soon, and may bring my ski to compare settings. QUESTION: I am about 185 or a little less now, so wonder if a 67" might ultimately be my ski. What do you guys think?

I really liked my brother's 68" White '06 Nomad. I am still getting to know and set up my '08 68" RCX. It feels long to me where as the white one seemed to naturally turn for me without excess effort, with a smooth finish. My brother made a fin adjustment on his white one that I guess worked out. I may need to try to dial that in on mine, unless there is some other big difference I need to account for. But as for the question, I was a redline guy, then a Duvall (another D. Kidder influenced or designed product), then now the D3. So for me, the Denny Kidder skis seem to work. I just want to make sure I am on the right length for me, and get it dialed in.

1. Though I want to ski more, I am at best a weekend warrior. When I lived on the water, I skied 3 or 4 times a week. Here, I will get that in only if I find a way onto the local ski lake. Here is a link to an article after it was built. I am not sure if they have memberships any more. It is for sale. http://www.mtexpress.com/1999/07-21-99/mgmlake.htm 2. Any day I ski is a good day. Better day if the conditions are good. 3. I don't consider any "bad" but maybe half the time, the conditions are not what I would have skied when I skied a lot. Now, I have to take what the water gives me when I get to a lake, or choose not to ski that day.

@RB and at @Gravelski, not looking to start any wars here, but a Husky started the thread. ;-) some of my best buds are cougs. It's ok!

When I do find my little vid camera, (it got lost somewhere in the house, I think), I will go ahead and try to get a vid of me posted for review and amusement. It is what it is. If the good people here take time to look at what I am doing and give me some hints, that is just really cool! You guys can probably already tell that I am not afraid to join a discussion, though my knowledge is much less than most here. How else does one learn but by doing, and by hashing it out amongst one another, than doing some more? (if I do muddy up a discussion too much, feel free to tell me to shut it and go work on my leveraged position, or whatever. ;-)) Thanks @Horton, @Than, and all for making the 15 off'r club feel welcome! I like that "clueless on a higher level". In my mountain bike group, where I chase some other big dawgs, we talk at the end about how we are all in pain on the climb. It is just the level of speed you maintain, so "pain on a different level".