Brent's Slack

[Horton]

Brent tell us again about your slack issue.

[Old MS Accout]

Brent,

your slack at 35 will is probably starting at 1 ball after hook up. This will happen due to to much speed to the ball, or not enough angle which will cause you to pull long and cause you to turn quicker then you would like.

Control your speed into 1 ball with angle. Do not overpull or get to fast. Only bring the speed you need to run the pass. If you set your rythem at 1 ball, you will be all set to run it. If you take a slack shot and have to recover, you are done by 3 ball.     

[Horton]

angle off the wake could be the big one . . .

[RS]

I have a tendancy to jump on the gates but when I remember to turn late for angle and relax a bit I do much better.    I'm just brainstorming but I'm thinking that if I tried to get the most angle possible with the least amount of speed that would be a mental mantra that may help me.   Some of my best 32's were started with me telling myself to take it easy although I turn in late for angle.   Any thoughts from the guru's?

 

 

[RS]

Control your speed into 1 ball with angle...

I'm going to go out and mess with this right now.    

 

[Old MS Accout]

Good luck.

Control the speed into 1 ball with angle, but the angle has to happen prior to the wake and the controled speed must happen after the wakes. (carry out) 

[Horton]

I think part of the deal is to take the angle but to not lean away extra - -  just ride the line. Yea I know it is hard.

[RS]

Ok...just got back.  Not great conditions (cross wind) but I focused on letting the ski come around and then just holding that angle into the first wake and not trying to over or under do it.    Ran some very nice passes but found myself pulling a little long into my onside at the end.   I didn't realize that was the problem until I got in the boat and was thinking about it.   It felt like I wasn't letting the ski carry out since I was early and wide enough so I think I jammed the turns a bit.    That's the story of my skiing, I work on fixing one thing and I screw up something else.  Just a vicious circle.   I need to take up lawn darts!

 

  

[RS]

Brent, If you watch the right hand gate ball pass behind you doesn't that make you counter the wrong way?  :P  J/K.

What helped me more than anything was to lead in the direction of travel with my hip.  I lose my hips when I get tired and let my butt get back.   If I think about getting my hip forward again I get balanced again with effortless speed.   But that's Butt specific to my problem.

 

 

 

[Old MS Accout]

Just keep taking repititions at it and it will come around.

I liked the 6 AM. It felt a bit squirly, but I could ride it. I am testing a 9800 right now and I am having big issues.   

[skidawg]

what issues, have you called chad, that will save you alot of headaches.

[SM]

I'm often in the boat and Brent is definitely coming in flat at the one ball. IMHO it is the result of either pulling too hard too soon, or letting up on his pull too soon.  Brent should post a video to get a broader range of opinions. If he brings his camera tomorrow, I'll shoot it for him.

 

 

 

 

[Roger]

I see some things to work on for sure.

Your pull out to the glide and width look ok to me for LLF (I am LLF also).

Your turn in is entirely on the tail, the water is breaking behind the front binding. This is costing you angle through the gates and giving you extra speed.

Your edge change is a little slow, but that will probably improve with a proper gate anyway.

 

Now for my suggestions. I had nearly the same gate as you when one of my skiing buddies (Harold Hintringer, who runs 39 @ 36mph) asked me to change. Here is his advice to me:

 

1) When you reach the glide, stand directly over the front binding, not leaned back. Look at a shot of Chris Parrish for how this should look.

2) When you initiate your turn in to the gates, do it from that same position and initiate with your hips (not by rocking your shoulders back).

3) Once you complete the turn and attian your lean, hold that position to the 2nd wake, don't try to pull harder, don't let up, just maintain.

 

I couldn't believe how much this helped me. I'm wide and slow for 1 ball, even at -38. The real icing on the cake though was last weekend when I took my first lesson ever from Chet Raley. He found my real problem right away and is really helping me. One thing he said to me though is that my gate is one of the better looking two handed gates he has seen. If you know who Chet Raley is, you know he's seen a lot of gates...

 

Don't know if this will work as well for you, but give it a try and see what happens.

 

[RS]

You should post your full 32 off pass too.

   

[JCH]

I am suffering from the same problem. I can ski a sweet 32 off (34 mph) pass, but when the line shortens to 35, one of two things happen: I wait too long and I get wide at the buoy and when the ski comes around the buoy the rope fall on the water, or I am narrow and too fast right on top of the ball. Either way ends with too much slack rope.

One of my questions is, how do you compensate for the turn in for the gates going from 32 to 35. I ski out to the buoy line and try to make a gradual turn in for the gates. At 32 I turn in at the windshield of the boat, and at 35 when the nose of the boat goes through the entry gates. During my last attempt, I was concentrating on trying to get closer to my 32 gate turn in point and changing edge as soon as I crossed the second wake.

Am I on the right track? Any advise is appreciated as I do not have any skiers with me that ski a shorter line to get coaching from. I have struggled with this for the past 3 years.

 Thanks

Jerry

[Roger]

"Harold is great, he got me through my first 28off's 6 years ago. Doesn't he run 41off sometimes?"

 

His PB is 3@41. I believe it's 2@41 in a tournament.

 

Keep the video camera rolling if possible, it will help you and anyone trying to help you...

 

Roger

 

[35 in the bag]

 

Roger wrote>>>>>>>> Your turn in is entirely on the tail, the water is breaking behind the front binding. This is costing you angle through the gates and giving you extra speed.<<<<<<<<<<

Not withstanding the tail comment which it totally agree with.........................

I've seen this type of comment regarding angle and speed many times before and the logic of it continues to elude me.  My understanding of the "physics" dictates that angle (defined for this purpose as; skier path; not necessarily the skis' relative relalationship to the water) is proportional to cross coarse speed.  The faster you go cross coarse at the wakes, the more "angle" you have. So I ponder...... how does one have extra speed and less angle.  This is assuming a snap shot at .....say... the  gates.

We must be talking "too much speed" at "the ball" then.

I think what may actually be happening is that the skier is losing pull intensity (and potential speed/angle)as he nears the wakes... therfore not on a path for a wide(er) preturn. So he skis flatter into the preturn just to get width so he can make it around the ball. Of coarse this causes less preturn deceleration just prior to the ball, potentially a later turn initiation and potentially higher speed at the ball, which, if all combined with a large radius turn (more time skiing approximately toward the boat) result in a whole lap full of rope.

Now, conversely. Reasonably increase the speed/angle at the shapshot location of the gate balls, set a reasonable preturn edge casting the skier wider relative to the boat and coarse, and allowing the intuitive decelleration in the late preturn, then excecute a more upright, tight radius turn at one ball with little or no slack line. At 35 & 38 off this is all very do-able.

The pull part of this equation is the easiest to fix.  The real challenge is the edge change with a meaningful (not flat ski) preturn. It's real hard to break the bad habits until you begin to experience that you will get out to the ball with plenty of width.....Too much if you over do it.

Now for the next problem......what do you do when you are wide and early at two ball.....almost never having experienced that before?   Probably over turn it and dump or get pulled forward out of pull possition........this is how you count 2 & 1/2.

This combination......without overdoing it.....has helped me develope 1 ball (at virtually every length I ski) as my most consistent/effective bouy on the coarse......ha, ha,.... most of he time.  

John

[Roger]

John,

I don't really disagree with anything you said there, it's probably more perception than anything.

 The usual reasoning here is that if you make the turn in on the tail, the rest of the ski "falls" into the water late causing the skier to over pressure the ski (this is handled easier by a RFF than us lefties). Then sometime about the first wake, the skier winds up being pulled up and angled towards the one ball instead of being cast out wide. The perception, if not the reality, for the skier is narrow and fast at the one ball. A controlled turn in using the normal part of the ski (water breaking in front of the front binding) allows the skier to maintain a consistant pull and angle through the 2nd wake. I don't pretend to have all the answers, but I know when I get this right, the edge change is nearly automatic and I "feel" slow and wide at the 1 ball.

 I totally agree with your comments on the new found width at 2 ball...

 

[tsixam]

Tsixam´s take on the gate.

 

Pull out so you are wide, and have a lot of speed, preferably the same speed as the boat. If you have a lot of speed, the forces acting on your body will not be as high as if you are skiing too slowly and you will have a better chance to keep your ski on edge behind the boat. When you start your turn toward the gate, make sure you initiate it with your knees. That will help you to keep your center over the ski and not get behind. Set your angle, aim close to the right hand ball and just hold on to what you have created. Don´t try to increase your lean, the boat will always win a tug of war. When you change your edge make sure you can feel your elbows on your vest and keep them there as long as possible. When you release don´t give the boat more rope than necessary and try to counter rotate or at least try to not fall in with your right shoulder. Keep your knees slightly bent all the time. When you know you going to make the turn, spot ball 2 and keep your eyes on it until you know you going to make it, then spot ball 3.

 

Tsixam