Z7ST

[Gloersen]

 

 

style='font-size:14.0pt;color:red'>Z7ST

 

 

 

Doubt this

thread will generate the response of the Strada, but

the Z7ST rocks!

 

 

 

Good ski, suspect

it will be well-received.

 

 

 

Likes to be

skied aggressively :) but doesn’t punish going into turn.

 

 

 

Carries out

well; can be very w&e but without good handle control,

one will beeline to the ball.

 

 

 

Then, stay

in the reach = IS GOOD!

 

 

 

16 sets, all

-28’s/34, different fin & binding settings for 8 of those sets, hit openers

in all but 4, good for my level & indicates to me the inherent

predictability of the ski. Plus water is still cold <64, limitations of

suit, etc. Getting it dialed in real well is pending warmer weather.

 

 

 

Started

with:

 

Reflex 30â€Â

(measured from back of hinge mounting bracket) Wiley 17.675â€Â

 

DFT 0.74/D 2.506/L

6.905/W 7

 

 

 

Now:

 

29.875/17.375

 

DFT 0.73/D

2.498/ L 6.875/ W 8

 

 

 

Getting

closer.

 

 

 

Counting

on this ski to get it done this season, so far; very encouraging.

style='font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>

 

 

 

Interested

to see what others arrive at for setup.

 

 

[sixball]

Did you ski the Z7 before trying the Z7st?  How do you compare them?

[Gloersen]

Last D3 I rode was in "06 on the original Nomad. This ski is MUCH BETTER!

Coming off Elite (couldn't tame it), feels similar in some ways, but perhaps decels better in the pre-turn.

[Roger]

One of my ski partners tried the Z7 and the Z7ST back to back. The Z7 was more work to get it to carry out from 35 and in. He says the ST is faster than his 9800 Goode and just ordered the ST. Has run 3@39 on it already.

I skied 3 sets on the Z7 and liked it (all 28s). Another guy tried it and bought it. A new 67" ST is coming in on Tuesday which I will try. Even the Z7 seemed faster than my Fischer which seems idential in speed to the Goode I came off of. I'll report back on the ST when I get a set or two on it.

• CommentAuthorGloersen, all your settings and changes would mean more if you reported the length of the ski...

[Gloersen]

Roger:

 

at 180 on a 67".

Eager to hear your report & settings.

[Roger]

The ski will arrive on Tuesday. We will flex test it and mount my RS-1 bindings on it and I will ski on it Wednesday night. We flex tested three other Z7, Z7-STs that came in and they were all within 1 pound of each other and 1 pound of the numbers that came with them. I guess the zero tolorance manufacturing stuff in their ad is for real. I'm about 187 right now on a 68" Fischer. The ST coming in is also a 67.

 

[jdarwin]

I find it interesting that Gloersen's fin numbers ended up very close to mine (regular Z7).  I have a feeling the Z7 and the Z7ST are more similar than they are different - especially if your Z7 was purchased late in the season (as mine was).

[Old MS Accout]

I will have a 65 Z7ST at the door today.

Does anyone have front boot placement for the 65?

[jdarwin]

29"

[Old MS Accout]

I will try that.  

[jdarwin]

Mark - bindings stock.  DFT .73 flat (stock) / 6.870 / 2.497 / 7 deg wing.  She'll love you for it!

[Gloersen]

Usually find setup best for me is a little longer on both length & DFT from stock on prior skis, but wanted to free up the Z7STa bit, looking at another post by jdarwin on Z7 (generation1), thought I'd try back & shorter; it is better.

 

Better speed control through gates and seems to carry out better with fin back & shorter. Still turns great.

 

Found diminishing returns at DFT 0.73/ L 6.870/ D 2.495, good angle but hard to get wide (slide?); probably too little FSA.

 

Just need good weather & course time now.

[jdarwin]

Gloersen - I think the 6.870 length is money.  DFT at around .740 - 760 depending on taste.  I run my fin around 2.50 until the water warms over 75 then go to 2.497.  The shallower fin in cold(er) water makes the ski slide too much at the apex and doesn't carry width as well off the 2nd wake.  Played with some numbers today (water 64) and found that running my "summer" numbers didn't work as well.  Look forward to hearing more about the ST but I'm still not convinced it's worth jumping off my current Z7 - it's working too well.

[Gloersen]

 

 

class=apple-style-span>jdarwin

style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS";color:black'> - I will try

increasing DFT for grins to .750, should "free it up" quite a bit.

 

 

 

At 6.870 suspect

will need to go forward with Reflex front.

 

 

 

It will be interesting to see how the

offside turns with that little tip & that far forward.

 

 

 

Are you on a 67"?

 

If Reflex front, at 30"?

 

From where on the Reflex do you

measure?

 

Using the wing at 7?

 

Thanks.

 

 

[jdarwin]

I'm on a 68" - 30.5" Reflex.  My entire binding setup is on one plate - one of teammalibu's creations.  I used to measure from just underneath the clip on the heel when my bindings were on separate plates.  I think this is the standard measuring technique used.  Fortunately, I have another D3 skier on site who uses Leverage bindings at stock location so I can "eye-ball" pretty close side by side. 

I think you will find the 6.870 is what will free the ski up off the 2nd wake.  D3's track very well but that also means they tend to track back toward the buoy if you don't release the ski off the 2nd wake.  The 6.870 will make this an easier transistion.  Wing: 7 deg.  Keep the ST feedback coming.

[Donski]

Picked up a 09? 65" Z7 last year in early Oct. got two sets in on it before my season ended. Before last weekends first ride of the year i re-set the fin to stock #s and and check the the binding placement. To my surprise a medium D3 Levage boot in the center hole is not 29" or stock. To get the stock measurment the front boot has to be all the way forward, screw in last or back hole.

 1st pass with all stock # , out wide and early to one ball ski turns so fast and quick i hit one ball dead on on my way back towrords the wakes, splash. 2nd pass same results, 3rd pass same results at two ball 4th pass fell at one ball. Back to the dock ready to take up golf.

Moved Both binding back one hole, center location befor my second set. Ran 8 pass through the course with my usual eary season bad habits.

Question: is the binding placement that sensetive on this ski? Should i set the bindings back to 29 inches and change the fin settings to lift the front of the ski a bit so it not quit so agressive in the turn?

     

[jdarwin]

Donski - I've always viewed "stock" settings (both binding and fin) as a recommended starting point - that's all they are.  I've run bindings forward and back on different D3's with varying results.  I ran my Z7 one-hole-forward when I first got the ski and it felt great.  Moved the bindings back one hole as I became more familiar with its tendencies.  Therefore, I would leave the bindings where it is most comfortable and you have the greatest success - no matter where that is in relation to "stock".  The fin adjustment is not intended to compensate for bad binding location. Tweak the fin for desired results but leave the bindings where you have them.

[Roger]

We had trouble matching D3's flex numbers for the two numbers closest to the tail (5 or 6 pounds under what they sent). The two numbers closest to the tips were within 1 pound. We inquired with D3 and they use different measurements for the two tail numbers and also use a 50lbs preload vs. the 30lbs the instructions with our flex tester says to use. Their quality control is amazing as all the Z7 skies we have flexed so far are nearly exactly the numbers on the card that comes with the ski (taking into account the above info). I will try the new ski this afternoon.

 

[Gloersen]

Tried 6.870/2.50/.750, FB 30". It was decent

FB 29.875" 2nd set; better onside.

Tried 6.878 4th set = too much offside, ski getting behind & lost out bound direction off 2nd wake.

The 6.870/2.50/.750 are good numbers to build upon.

The ski is freed up well past 2nd wake, turns surprisingly well on the offside, keeps the ski out front.

Will try back with fin a bit to slow the gates down a tad and have a little more tip into 1B.

jdarwin: good info.

[Roger]

Two sets last night with stock fin settings, wing at 8. Ran 4 of 6 28s first set. 2nd set, ran 4 28s, 4.5@32, ran 32 pretty nice. This Winter, I've only run 28s until last week. Ran 3 32s on my Fischer. This ski is fast. I think the carry out is better than the Z7, but it's hard to really gage carry out at 28 (though 32 seemed fine). When I get into 35 and 38 I'll know more about that. I'm pretty satisfied with the stock settings though I may reduce DFT slightly to increase tip on my onside. Two more sets tonight and then a 3rd record on Saturday...

[jdarwin]

Gloersen - I'm starting to move my fin back more toward .740 - I think you're on the right track.

Wow Roger, you guys are starting fast out of the gate w/ a tournament this weekend!  I've only skied 6-8 sets this year and just started running 32's.  As for ski set up, I try to get it comfortable at 28 and 32 but the set up is for 35 and 38.  I've found if the ski feels great at 28, it will not at 35/38.  I didn't notice a difference in the RCX/Z7 until 38.  Both skis generated enough speed/width off the 2nd wake at 28 and 32.  At 35 the difference was minimal but at 38, I could tell a significant difference in how the Z7 behaved off the 2nd wake.  Look forward to more review.

[Roger]

I agree with pretty much everything you said. I only spoke of carry out in my previous post as Gloersen was talking about changing the carry out at 28 and I just don't think you can tell much about carry out at 28 or even 32. I have two more practice sets this afternoon lined up and then the tournament on Saturday at Palm Bay. I'm not prepared for sure, but as I'm one of the drivers, I get an entry anyway. So, it will be three more practice sets I suppose /vanillaforum/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-cool.gif

 

[jlittle]

So how are ya'll measuring your DFT?  Stem or head?  Or slot caliper/other?

Length I would assume is tips.

[jlittle]

I think I found it on page one... head or flat from what JD said.  Correct?  Not many use stem I just wanted to verify.

[Roger]

I use stem, but the instructions that come with the ski have measurements for both stem and flat.

[jdarwin]

I measure flat/head but D3 gives you the stock DFW for both.

[Gloersen]

 

 

DFT measured

flat/head with a homemade slot caliper. Zeroed at back of

fin, then to tail; very reproducible.

 

 

 

2 more sets

today, okay they were just 28’s again, but 6.870 seems a very workable length,

leaving D at 2.5, still might go back a bit more as 1/3/5 (heelside)

are just a tad too abrupt. Toeside turns are very

good on this ski (imho).

 

 

 

I’ll have to

try running some -38’s on Saturday to test the true “carryout†ability; that is

the ability of my compadres to carry me out on a

stretcher after I try, that will be the only carryout I’ll get at purple.

 

 

 

Despite the various

levels of proficiencies qualifying one to describe a ski’s inherent

characteristics; I can say that (for me) compared to the ’05 X-5, ‘06 Nomad,

Monza (’07 & ’08), the A1, & the Elite, the Z7ST is a ride that has given

me the greatest “confidence†when skiing balls to the wall (if that can be done

at -28).

 

 

 

style='mso-spacerun:yes'> 

Still have 8 days to send it back to D3 (not).

 

I expect to be

class=GramE>seeing  some

blues at

tournaments this year on this ski.

 

 

[jdarwin]

Good for you.  One of the reasons I have stuck w/ D3's for the past several years is that the ski feels comfortable and predictable no matter the conditions or the site.  It feels the same every time - every place.  I never could say that about Goode's or the Elite.  Most of that has to do w/ me and my quirks - the D3 doesn't make me pay a heavy price for not being perfect.  Finding a ski that you can be consistent on is the key (Butterfield told me this for years and I finally listened!).  Some skis may give me another buoy or so on occasion, but the Z7 will get me to my average on a more consistent basis and therefore allow me to improve.

[Roger]

Had mixed sets last night. First set was kinda all over the place, never shortened from 28 and missed a couple of those. Second set went much better with 4 28s, a missed 32 (poor gate and too much effort applied to fix), and then a really nice smooth 32 to finish up. I'll stay on the ski for tomorrow's tournament as is and then on Sunday I'll probably make a small fin adjustment to bring the onside turn into line a bit (the tip is a little high on that side, so will reduce DFT slightly). Right now, it's more about me not having skied much this Winter (yes, even at Okeeheelee we had a brutal Winter) and still more in tune with my Fischer. However, each set gets a little better and this ski looks like it might be the one for me.

If by some chance I manage to run 32 tomorrow, I'll be in brand new territory as I've not even tried a 35 this year /vanillaforum/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif  I'm capable of running it, but not usually the first few tries of the year (PB is 4@38 practice and 2@38 tournament on the Fischer).

 

[Roger]

CommentAuthorGloersen 

"I’ll have to try running some -38’s on Saturday to test the true “carryout†ability; that is the ability of my compadres to carry me out on a stretcher after I try, that will be the only carryout I’ll get at purple.

 

 

Despite the various levels of proficiencies qualifying one to describe a ski’s inherent characteristics; I can say that (for me) compared to the ’05 X-5, ‘06 Nomad, Monza (’07 & ’08), the A1, & the Elite, the Z7ST is a ride that has given me the greatest “confidence†when skiing balls to the wall (if that can be done at -28)."

 

 

Gloersen, I did not mean to dis your description of how the ski is working out for you. Certainly there is carry out at any line length and changes to the settings will effect how much/little is there.

 

 

 

However, a ski can have adequate carry out through 35 and suck at 38 (with each pass becoming progressively more difficult to get the width needed). My friend who just got the ST had also tried last year's Z7 and through 35 it was great, but at 38 and 39 he said he had to work really hard to get the width needed. When he got the ST to try, all the work went away. He skied the Z7 and the ZST back to back and came away with the same conclusion; the ST has much better carry at and short line lengths.  

 

[Gloersen]

Roger:

 

No dis ever taken from these blogs; always appreciate any info gathered to help shorten the line and to offer any informative opinion.

 

Good luck in Palm Bay, maybe you'll be right behind Chet in the RO!

 

Z7ST is GOOD!

[Roger]

I wish Chet was coming as I will be pulling MM and Chet has run 8 consecutive 39s in tournaments with me driving (he keeps a log). I think he's doing his ski school thing tomorrow while Wim is skiing with us in Palm Bay. I will be pulling my ski partner John Shealy and also Bruce Dodd in MM. They ran 3@39 and 3.5@39 respectively at the last tournament in Palm Bay in 09. We have the 200 all three rounds, so should be very enjoyable at both ends of the rope.

 

John and I have come up with some meanings for the ST in Z7ST: “ST†(second try, super terrific, supersonic transport, speed turner, sensational turning, super tuned).  Feel free to add to the list...

[bmiller3536]

So what exactly did the change on the ski in order to get it to carry out easier and wider?

 

 

[Roger]

D3's website has all the changes listed: http://store.d3skis.com/product-p/d3z7.htm

But this seems to be the change in question:

 

Modified concave as it transitions to the outside edge- Improving the glide-out and stabilizing the edge-change, delivering course width without additional skier effort.

[MrJones]

It is kind of funny they went with ST for the name "again." I know this shows my age, but in about '92 Kidder made a ski called the Velocity. Well, it didn't work too well and they quickly came out with the Velocity ST. (Second try) My room mate in college rode one.

[chris carter]

Brie and I are skiing the ST and are running longer and further back and the ski seems better balanced, ie less tip up or more wetted surface. 7.93 and .724. just trying at yellow, green, and some blue line, nothing more yet. ski finishes nicely. caryout does not seem to be compromised with the added tip, but the Z7 would not handle that much tip, it would carve too quickly. I am actually also running a Z7 with one of Horton's carbon fin and a mini wing. seems to be a good combo for carry out and turning. the ST's we are skiing have stock fins and wings.

[Gloersen]

Assuming typo & you meant 6.93.

 

Sticking with 6.870 here and adjusting DFT to onside.

 

The shorter fin from stock seems to help me keep the ski out front through the pre-turn as well as gain width behind the boat.

 

The more sets I put on it, the better the offside continues to be.

[Gloersen]

 

 

ST: how about "

class=apple-style-span>

style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:red'>Slicing

Tomahawk

"

 

 

 

Fell at 2b, back foot came out

& instead of getting on platform, put on in water.

 

On next pass attempt felt some

kind of clicking on the start, ignored it, then had a

big 1B and the front Reflex felt like it just came right off at maximum load.

 

Somehow the tip of the ski (I

assume) gashed the forehead.

 

 

 

A shame to have had to waste the

great water conditions today.

 

 

 

Plus opening set felt great, .74

has helped the onside a lot (back from .745)

 

style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>Currently

.74/6.870/2.5/8; quite decent.

 

 

[RichardDoane]

how many stiches ?

[lakeaustinskier]

Wow! That is easily one of the most impressive injuries I've ever seen. I assume that all the blood is the result of the location on the scalp and that it didn't hurt much (its all relative I suppose).

I fell across the wake last year and somehow caught my ear on the wake, bent the ear back and separated my ear halfway from my scalp (behind my ear where it connects to the scalp). Same thing - lots of blood but considering the amount of blood it didn't hurt that much.

 

How many stiches? What does the doc say about scarring?

[davemac]

"its just a flesh wound"...glad you were able to manage a smile through it all.  Hope the ER wait wasn't too long. 

On the bright side, at least you weren't in salt water, the sharks would have come calling.

[robscholl-OF]

No worry about a scar, chicks dig scars.......OF

[Bill Gladding]

Too bad because he was rocking his -28/34 on the new ski.  Good thing there wasn't any duck tape around he is so hard core he would have put a piece on and kept going!

[Roger]

Made first fin adjustment today. Now running 6.910, 2.50, .729. The real change was the .729; this has really helped the onside initiate better on it's own (which the offside was already doing). I believe I will stay on this setting for the next 4 to 6 sets and see how I settle in on the ski. I like the depth and the DFT at this point. I may go longer once I get enough sets under my belt to be sure the ski needs something vs. me just being rusty due to the brutal (even in Okeeheelee) Winter.

 

[Gloersen]

 

 

Scalp

wounds tend to be quite vascular, but consequently don’t too often get

infected; hopefully this one won’t pus out.

 

Not

too painful after initial impact, anticipating some bad habits got knocked out

of the head.

 

Closed

with about 10 subcutaneous monofilament sutures to re-approximate frontalis to

galea, then a running subcuticular

nylon. 

 

If

scars are chick magnets; this will be Neodymium.

 

Just

need some bolts installed on both sides of the neck.

 

 

 

Mechanism:

 

I’m

90% certain the fall was a user error equipment mishap.

 

I

distinctly recall a clicking sensation either on the drop at the end of the lake

(after prior 2B spill) or with the start rounding the island.

 

Never

have had a partial release that would dupe me into not realizing the release

clasp was loose or not firmly seated. It is difficult for that to be

conceivable; the Reflex mechanism is either all intact or unlatched.

 

However,

I use a bit of Velcro between the shell & the plate, otherwise, even when

properly seated & clamped, the heel will move a tad from side to side as

evidenced by the wear on the shell when rubbing against the release bracket

bolts on either side.

 

When

examining the Reflex, the clamp can release, but still be right up against the

bar and with the Velcro it stayed on the ski when I replaced foot in rear

binding in the water. I think that is what happened on a fall around 2B on the

prior attempt.

 

Reproducing

this on land demonstrates what that “clicking†sensation I felt was before the

fall.

 

So

basically started, pulled-out, traversed the gates, then had a strong 1B all

with the Reflex clamp not attached! As soon as the ski loaded off 1B I could

feel my hardshell slide off the ski’s left side (the

edge side), it seemed like that occurred before the 1^st wake. Then

everything exploded. There is a little damage to the top laminate/ upper side

on the left edge of the ski where the cuff bolt of the hardshell

hit the ski as it slid off the left edge when loading.

 

Now

have to mend with epoxy & clamps, brand new ski, kind of sucks.

 

 

 

Remedy:

 

style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:

Verdana;mso-bidi-font-family:Verdana'>1.)

style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>

style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>When a foot comes

out, even if rear, get back on boat platform to check Reflex clamp intact.

 

style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:

Verdana;mso-bidi-font-family:Verdana'>2.)

style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>

style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Modify rear Wiley

so foot stays in a bit better

 

style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:

Verdana;mso-bidi-font-family:Verdana'>3.)

style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>

style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Karate Helmet

 

style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:

Verdana;mso-bidi-font-family:Verdana'>4.)

style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>

style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Superglue to seal wound;

ski Wednesday?

 

 

 

Thankful not an eye.

style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Roger]

Ran some nice 32s last night, going to stick with these settings until I'm running 35, then tune again if needed.

[Gloersen]

You're on RS1's? FB less than 30"?

The ski seems to work well at various fin dimensions, but I found stock providing too much tip pressure.

Wondering if Reflex setup provides more tip pressure than RS1's.

[Gern Blanston]

GLoersen - you may wish to try clear fingernail polish as an alternative to superglue.  I've used that many times.  The nice thing about it is it comes off with nail polish remover when the wound has sufficiently healed.

[Roger]

I'm on RS-1s, yes. FB measured at 30" (stock for 67" ST according to the sheet that came with the ski).

[Roger]

Ran a really nice 28 today, then a really nice 32. Shortened to 35 for only the 2nd time on this ski and was running the pass when the rope broke coming off 4 ball. Oh well, 35 will fall on the ski soon now as my strength and form are beginning to return and my confidence in this ski continues to grow with each set.