Binding position question

[colo_skier]

Just wondering what peoples opinion is about moving the bindings more towards the front of the ski than the suggested numbers?  It seems to be a solution suggested for some of us just trying 15 off at 34 and having issues staying on the front of the ski on the off side turn. Is this what we should be doing or would working the fin be more benefical to getting us to be in the right position on the ski? Thanks for any opinions. I did a search and didn't find anything quite addressing this particular issue.

[Than_Bogan]

I'll be fairly surprised if a binding or fin adjustment leads to better skiing at this stage.  Those kind of tweaks usually should be regarded as something of a last resort when you aren't able to improve your technique much more and want to tune your ski to what you're doing.

Us old foagies who can't learn anything new, along with top level tournament skiers trying to eek out just a touch more performance, may get some real benefit out of a binding or fin adjustment.

But for a fundamental technique issue, you'll be much better off if you don't try to compensate for your current technique, but instead focus on improving it.

(Some would argue this last statement is true for almost everyone except the very top pros with near perfect technique, but I feel once someone's technique is not improving a LOT more, tuning the ski to existing technique is valuable.)

EDIT:  All of the above assume you are at the factory settings for your ski.  If not, moving everything to factory may be helpful.

[lakeaustinskier]

This issue strikes a personal note with me - I've been there.  Use factory settings and work on form.  I used to have an old ski partner who was always messing with his settings and equipment etc. but what he really needed was to concentrate on his body mechanics.  I made a decision 4 years ago to seek out good coaching (HUGE) and concentrate on my form and I've really improved my skiing (4 @32 TB and 4 @ 35 practice).  My old ski partner is still messing with different skis and different settings and he hasn't really improved. 

[HO 410]

I don't think you can change the ski to address balance and expect that it won't be a problem when you cut the rope. When you increase speed, cut the rope, or both, what would just stand you up at 32mph -15', can turn into a major crash at 34mph -22'. 

[h2odawg79]

Body position is the 1st priority. 2nd is Technique.

WTS, the best Rule of thumb for adjustments is; #1.If your Form is proper, and the problem exists on BOTH sides, it is likely a Binding adjustment issue. #2. if your form is solid and it is only happening on ONE side it likely a Fin adjustment issue.

I agree with Than, assuming your starting point is the Stock #'s and Neutral binding position.

[eleeski]

Contrarian view. I typically like skis that are short. In order to make them work, I run forward of stock. Sometimes I have to drill new holes. When you get a new ski, absolutely play with settings. Until it feels OK. Then Than is right, work on form. But if you get stuck don't be afraid to make significant changes. Of course if you move a fin .003 you are really working on your form - if you change something, go big!

Eric

[Horton]

Moving bindings forward does not move your body forward. Bindings forward will make a ski turn sharper but hold less angle. Often skiers move bindings forward and "feel" better but ski technically worse.

It is not a bad idea to try one hole but I would not expect it to change your skiing.

[Horton]

What ski?

[Bill Gladding]

I rode with my bindings a hole or so forward of stock for a long time and had good results at 15, 22 and 28/34.  Also ran the fin .1 or so forward  in combination.  Eventually those settings held me back.  Do what Eric says and try different things within reason and go with what feels good and gives you confidence.  Work towards technique that is compatible with settings closer to stock.  I had an extra set of wheels for my bike when I started riding now I sometimes ride with no hands:D

[colo_skier]

In my instance I have changed from a Monza to an A1. I did 4 sets with a lot of the new ski on the tail syndrone and 32mph versus 34mph. In these I had only a few good turns and some "wow" what a great angle off the on side bouy turns. I think these were due to me correctly letting the ski come all the way around and sking back to the handle. The offside turns were controllable but not crisp. I did notice that at the stock settings, that when I was in what I considered to be the correct position the ski seemed to feel as though it was behind me as I turned into the gates and behind me in the turns. To counter this I appear to have gone onto the back of the ski. To counter the fact that the ski just doesn't turn when on the tail I have gradually moved the bindings as far forward until they are as far forward as they they will go. This of course has made the ski feel slow across course and hard to hold angle.  The worry I have here is that I really seem to be going backwards in terms of sking the course and seem to have made a dog out of the ski. The first couple of times with the ski at stock settings I was really impressed with the on side angle and the stability across course. Now it just feels like a really slow Monza.  I am of course ready to admit that 99% of the problem is me and not the ski. I was just trying to see what anybody's advice was about moving bindings.  From the posts so far I think I need to move the boots back to the stock position and get back into proper form and work from there rather than moving bindings to compensate for my poor position on the ski. Sorry for the long post but there isn't alot of ski time left here in Colorado and I would like to get a handle on this before stopping for the season.  

[jordanskis]

 

One point...skiers just learning the course often have skis that are set-up reall poorly.Maybe this is due to buying used skis, demo models etc. Maybe it's due to tweaking until far removed from factory settings; or,  because new course skiers get a lot of free advice on set up.

One of the first things to do is to get a qualified person (ie good instructor) to watch you ski and set up the ski correctly...then leave it alone.

 A poorly set up ski can hinder progress immensely.

 

[Chef23]

Colo Skier I think you need to put the ski back to recommmended specs and start fresh.  I moved from a Monza to an A1 and haven't looked back.  When I am just a tiny bit patient the ski turns in much better than the Monza ever did.  I would try putting the ski to recommended specs and get out and ski some passes trying to ski back to the handle on the turns.

[colo_skier]

Thanks for all the replies. I am going to set it back to the original neutral binding position and work on my form. I have set up the fin to the recomendations on the HO site with the slight changes given on the   jagersport.com/FM_FinChart. Hopefully all of the comments will help anybody else who may be in the same situation as I am. I will update as applicable. Thanks again for the info and great site!!!

[colo_skier]

I hope to get out and ski this weekend  but I noticed that Than in another thread made an interesting comment:

"I would be cautious about moving the bindings forward.  I do not find that this move actually gets the skier closer to the right stance -- in fact often the opposite.  The bindings far forward makes it feel very comfortable to rock back and put all the weight on the rear foot -- exactly what you DON'T want to do.  And feels like you'll sink the tip if you pressure the front foot, which is exactly what you DO want to do."

 From how my skiing seems to have gone backwards I tend to agree with this.

[thager]

Where your plate goes depends on where your natural stance places your center of mass. Most people are good at stock settings. My bud who was once a highly ranked skier ran his way forward of normal. He has a sway back issue so that worked for him. I couldn't even get up on his ski.

[colo_skier]

OK, finally got a chance to get a few sets in with the bindings back at stock. The ski is a lot more predictable and my body position is more balanced. The ski feels like it goes across course quicker. Final set of the sason was Nov 6th and felt pretty good. Gives me some hope that next season I can start from a more correct sking stance on this ski. Hurry up Spring!!! Thank-you for all the replies and everyone have a happy off-season.