My Impressions of the Ventral Wing

[RichardDoane]

I bent it so it would be more like the original design of a vw. The large rear wing is factory Radar. Set at about 8'. Sometimes I'd step on the front of the ski too hard, stop the ski too abruptly and hurt my rear ankle (it's the one that's been broken/sprained a lot). With the binders back it's a very happy Strada.

[Boody]

I am a bit mixed on the ventral. I took it off today after struggling for a few sets. It really freed up the ski and kept the speed thru the turns and finish. Skied a little better with it off, but we will see after some more sets.

[ForrestGump]

My ventral showed up Thursday night. I mounted it 1" from front edge of fin, 5/8" below and parrallel to ski bottom on my Elite. I also reduced wing angle from 8 to 7. I did not notice any degradation in speed and ran right up through my tournament pb. The ski definitely felt more connected to the water and stable. Tomorrow I may take the Elite wing off completely and see how it feels.

[skibug]

I posted this in another thread; but, it really belongs here:

 

I originally had a true mini-ventral wing with downward angle on the wings which gave me the sensation of a little drag. I then moved to just a straight modified wing (made by just cutting down a normal wing) and this definitely alleviated the feeling of drag. About 4 sets ago, just for kicks, I took off my normal wing (which was at 7°, normally at 8° w/o the front mounted mini-ventral) and just left the front mounted mini-ventral on. I thought I would have trouble slowing the ski down w/o the normal wing; but, to my surprise I didn't. I skied right to my average. I need to ride it for a few more sets this way to determine where I am going to land wing wise; but, in either case the VW will remain as my average scores with it (including a PPB) have outweighed my average scores without.

 

 

[jwr]

@shaneH Damn you I like my elite the way it is.

Ps keep me posted. I may have to give it a try. :)

[teammalibu]

MS

Think I'll mount a Nano to my Ventral after watching CS this weekend

[skibug]

Brent, I am on an Nomad RC. Usually run an 8 degree wing; but, reduced it to 7 degrees. Plus, I went to a modified normal wing which has no downward bend. This alleviated the drag sensation. I then also removed the normal wing all together and now I am just riding ventral wing now.

 

[Ed_Johnson]

Skibug,

 

Try running the Large ventral, tips down, 1- 2 degrees, where your regular rear wing was, along with the FWD Mini. No drag, but increased stability and "Turning Capability." I think you will be impressed.

[skibug]

Ed,

 

I may try that. To clarify, I am riding a home made version of the VW; but, with no downward bend. It is flat; made from a normal wing. This seemed to give me the same stability; but, no sensation of drag like with the machined VW I had with downward bend. I did turn my normal wing right side up and ran it flat (0 degrees); I am not sure how different that would be from the large VW. I do want to try the rear (larger) VW; I just need to make one.

[mac]

I'm a believer! Ran my first set today with the mini VW mounted on the front of the fin per the Goode diagram revision 2. I ski on a 63.75 Goode 9900 Mid which I got at the end of last summer; was previously on a Goode 9800. My avg M5 tournament score is 94.83, and tournament PB .5 @ 38 last year. Bottom line, I run very few 35s in practice and rarely in tournaments. Today, my first set I ran back to back 35s pretty easily; almost felt like 32s...I did check the rope length again when I dropped:)! Needless to say, I was pumped! Unfortunately, the winds came up strong and we did not ski a 2d set. I can pretty much echo what everyone has already said...ski turns quicker, tip stays down on my offside, earlier to the ball and seemed less effort required. Definitely, looking fwd to the next time out! mac

 

PS: Thanks to everyone's VW insights and reviews; it made it easy to pull the trigger on this one!

[skidawg]

I didn't get the big puff of wind up my skirt like you shane, maybe i set it up wrong????

[Old MS Accout]

Teammalibu,

Chad could run 39 on anything. I know that he does like the ventral and it looks like it will be adding some bouys to his count but who knows. He gets better all the time with or without it.

[Boody]

How did Chad have his Nano set up ventral wise?

[teammalibu]

Chad had the mini ventral in front per the goode drawing and standard goode wing in back at 9 deg.

Mike Munn was running the mini v in front and a schnitz speed wing in back.

[Ed_Johnson]

Mike,

 

Was Munn using the Goode Fin or the Slot Fin with the Schnitz Wing?

 

Thanks, ED

[MarkKarpo]

I tried using one mini Ventral mounted on a Strada 66" per Goode drawing and felt, depending on the depth of the vental, either 1) great traction and too much drag to run 35 off, or 2) not much traction and not much drag. I just tried the full triple Ventral setup per the Goode drawing and WOW WOW WOW. Great control and traction without the drag. Running 35s with control like I never had. I'm now a believer.

[Ed_Johnson]

Mark,

 

When I tried the triple setup, the ski kicked out on me on my offside turn. I thought there might be to much compressibility on the tail with the large ventral tips up. I reversed that to tips down,so all ventrals were tips down, and it was greatly improved.

 

Have you or anyone tried this, and what were your thoughts.............ED

[Cypresskier]

Ed, Munn uses a Goode fin that he has customized with a belt sander...i.e., made it thinner.

[Boody]

Ed, did you try the triple small ventrals like Mark or did you have the large ventrals?

[Ed_Johnson]

The ones I purchased from Goode in a set. Two Mini Ventrals, plus one large. They both have the same size baseplate and screw holes. All are smaller than a standard wing.

[sjholbert]

I tried a mini ventral wing and it didn't work for me. It had too much drag and caused me to ski narrow. I reduced my normal wing to something less than 6 degrees without success. I couldn't feel any benefit, so why work harder?

Anyway, I just listed it on Ski It Again for $50, if someone is interested in buying it. It's in perfect condition. Just skied on it for 3 sets.

http://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?topic=Search&category=Slalom&postid=15568

 

[ForrestGump]

Dawg, puff of wind or not, my average buoy count in practice and 6 tournament rounds has gone up by 4 buoys coinciding with the day I installed it. My peak buoy count is still the same. But on average, it's higher. Now, is that just my mind playing tricks with me? Maybe it is. But I'll take it.

[ForrestGump]

67 Elite

[ForrestGump]

Scot, Yes one small one. 5/8" below ski base, 1" from leading edge of fin at that 5/8 depth.

[Steven_Haines]

Ok, I've tried all combinations on my 68 Strada (large ventral is home made) except wings down on the large v. So far I'm very impressed with the feeling I get on my off side (rff). Ive found that if I'm not careful though, I can overturn 1,3,5. The issue I'm having so far is that the on side turn isn't closing up as tightly as i'd like it to. I have everything set nearly stock with 3 ventrals. I tried .795 but found that I was starting to get to rise. So now I have the fin set at .785 ( stock is .750) but haven't tried that yet. Any suggestions? This is a new ski to me, so I don't really have any bench marks to go by. My history, I haven't skied for 1 year due to a back injury. Normally I get thru 35 @ 34 (pp classic) presently working on cleaning up my 32 pass. I feel really good about this as I've only skied about 8 sets since I got hurt. If I can get that turn to close a little quicker, I feel that I can be back to stroking my 32's and working on 35. I DO realize that it could be due my lack of strength resulting in poor handle control. Just hoping for a little morsel to maximize my set up. BTW, I've found that the single ventral feels very similar to tri vents.

Thanks,

Steve

[ForrestGump]

Steven, where are your bindings?

[Ed_Johnson]

Steven,

 

Try all 3 Ventrals tip down. It will make a big difference in drag reduction while improveing turn capability. My numbers are 6.780 Jaws (Slot Caliper), 2.50, and 0.720. WORKS GREAT.

[Steven_Haines]

Shane,

My bindings are at 29.75 to the heel of the front boot. They are FM's.

Ed,

Ill try all in the down position next. Id like to try the slot fin in the near future too! Experimenting is half of the fun!?

d:-D

l

[Ed_Johnson]

Steve,

 

I found the slot fin worked best with the forward mini and the large ventral in the rear normal location, set at 5 degrees, both tips down.

I built my own fin version for the triple ventrals and this thing is like a Gun with a hair trigger. Just think turn and it does.

[Steven_Haines]

Cool Ed! I must be dense, but are you running 2 or 3 ventrals and what ski are you on? Thanks for the info! I'm excited to try the slot fin. I'm going to try my ski as set up 1st set tomorrow and then with all tips down 2nd set. I'll report back.

Thanks again!

[Ed_Johnson]

Steve,

 

 

 

Two Ventral's on the Slot Fin, that is all there is room for, and three Ventral's on what is a highly modified, thinned down version, of the Goode Fin. Right now I'm staying with my 3 Ventral version.

 

I tested all fins and Ventral's first on the 9900 Mid. and now on the Nano Mid.....ED

[Steven_Haines]

Thanks for the clarification. I'd like to see your thinned down master piece

[Ed_Johnson]

Steve,

 

You may not have the issues with the Strada that I had with the Nano. When I pulled it out of the box and tried it, I couldn't run my 32 off opening pass. There was just so much down course slippage coming off the apex. Keep in mind I was coming off the 9900 Mid, so I thought it would feel similar. I tried every combination of three fins and 1 - 2 - 3 Ventral's. I just could not get the feel I wanted.

 

In the past, as a Fighter Pilot and Experimental Test Pilot, with an Aeronautical Engineering background, I did a lot of work in Aerodynamics. I had a Jet that I built for Airshows that I redesigned for extensive Aerobatics. To get it to do what I needed, I had to do extensive work on Aspect Ratios, Dihedral Effect, and Variable Chord Ratios. Bottom line, I increased the G Capability (turning), and doubled the roll rate. It also greatly increased the flight control sensitivity. This is what I needed with the Nano. Increase it's turning capability, decrease down course slippage, increase roll rate (edge change), and increase sensitivity to input. Right now, by redesigning the fin and placement of the ventral's I have accomplished that.

 

Keep in mind, I am still in the test phase, since all my passes were at 32 and 35 off. Today was the first time I tried it at 38. I find it gets much more sensitive as the line gets shorter. I found if you just add 2 degrees of positive angle to the rear Large ventral it will decrease some of that sensitivity. Still all three Ventral's tip down.

 

Let me know how that works out for you. ED

[Steven_Haines]

Ed,

I finally got to ski today. I tried all three tips down. The ski felt great! The turns felt symmetrical and it was really comfortable and easy to ride. With all that said, my buoy count was pathetic! I did move the fin back from .795 ( last time out ) to .765, stock is .750. My buoy count was better at .795 but the ski felt more symmetrical at .765. My problem has been a poor 2/4 ball (rff). Could have just been one of those days.

[thager]

TEST

[tsixam]

 

I would like to know if there are any skiers on the Elite that have had success with the VW and what # they have used?

I left all my settings as they where and just added the mini wing on the front of the fin. It felt just as stable and fast as it used to be, but was digging in way to hard at the finish of the turn even if I tried to back off. Is this something that others have experienced?

On the other hand, the water is much warmer now and I have some problem with the tip coming up at the end of the turn…maybe I should give it another try…

 

Tsixam

 

[Steven_Haines]

I'm finding that if I'm not careful I can easily overturn my offside. 1/3/5

[Ed_Johnson]

tsixam,

 

A lot of skiers find when they add the front ventral, they need to move their bindings back 1/4 inch. That seems to do the trick.

[ForrestGump]

On my elite with the front ventral, I reduced wing angle to 7 and moved my bindings back 1/4". Feels good. Might move my bindings back forward 1/8"(I'm on powershells so that's no big deal).

[Steven_Haines]

Ok I skied again. This time I made a few adjustments to the fin and boots ( moved fin and boots back with the fin shorter and deeper) and ran 3 ventrals with the tips down. This new set up made the ski feel fast and free yet remained locked in! I'm now feeling that I'm getting good angle and getting free of the boat. Now I need to compare the feeling between the large v being in a tips up or down position. So far, I really like the down position!

 

[Boody]

Were all the ventrals small? Ed also like 3 ventrals but I don't recall if he had one big one in there.

[Steven_Haines]

I had 2 small and 1 large in the recommended positions.

[Ed_Johnson]

Same, two small and one large rear. All tips down. Had a problem with the tail of the ski skipping out at the apex, when the large rear was tips up.

Would like to hear if anyone else had this problem and how they solved it. I went tips down and it was much better, plus less drag, and a faster ski.

[Steven_Haines]

I think I'm finally at a set up on this ski where I can tell the difference in ventral set up. Ill try the large v in both positions and see if I notice a difference. Right now the ski feels awesome! My main problem now is strength and the balance in motion thing due to not skiing or doing any physical activity for a year. I've been working on 28 & 32's, hope to shorten saturday.

[Steven_Haines]

Today I skied 2 sets with all ventrals in the up position. This felt great! I skied better today than prior days but need to try it it again tomorrow. It may be feeling better due to the fact that I just stood up and skied today! Before, I was out of sorts just trying to find my balance point on the ski. Today I felt balanced and the ski felt very locked in and fast with very symmetrical turns. It's great to be skiing again!

[Old MS Accout]

After watching all the ventral users the past 2 weeks, I will not cave to the hype. Chad and Chet are the only ones that did not change location, take off, put back on or have issues with them. Lots of skiers wasting lots of tourney sets dealing with them.

[Old MS Accout]

Just the Mid. Its alright but I liked the A2 better.

Strada is still tops IMO

[Razorskier1]

I'm with MS on this one . . . oops, there I go again, agreeing with MS. I like my odds of shortening the line better by improving technically more than by hanging more stuff on my ski.

[Old MS Accout]

There were guys with 2 and others with 3 wings. JDs house was a waterski workshop for guys to work on fins in air conditioning inbetween sets. At this point if the things end up working out, it is best to wait until they all get position figured out. I dont think anyone will know until they go through 2-3 fins. Lots of holes were drilled.

[ForrestGump]

Have tried the forward mounted ventral on my Fire Mid twice this week. Both times, it killed my width. Take it off and the ski arcs out. I liked the Ventral on my Elite, but I'm not feeling the same thing about the Mid yet.