-15 @ 36 vs -15 @ 34

[kfennell]

So I am pretty close to being able to run 34 mph, I should run it in the next few times that I ski, do I need to approach 36 mph any different then I would 34 mph?

 

How long would you think it would take me to learn 36 one I start taking shots? My wife doesn't think I will be able to run it by the end of the year, that's a little disappointing.

[Than_Bogan]

So much depends on your fundamentals. I can only speak to my personal experience: I found 36 really, really fast. I could run 34 almost every time before I could do ANYTHING at 36.

 

But if you have a really good finish of your turn and leverage position behind the boat, 36 can almost feel easier. (It's not -- just saying it can feel that way in some respects.) [Edit: Dang, Brent beat me to it!] But 36 will reveal every deficiency in your body position.

 

I still remember the thought in my mind the first time I went into the course at 36: "No, I didn't say a HUNDRED and thirty six..."

 

The good news comes next: The difference between 36/-15 and 36/-22 is relatively small. And once you get 36 "figured out" it's pretty damn fun.

 

In retrospect, I think I should have done some 34/-22 work also. -22 sometimes makes it more obvious what you need to improve, whereas at 36/-15 the symptom might appear with a bit of a time delay after the actual problem.

[kfennell]

Interesting thought, does anyone else have an opinion on what I should start trying after I can run -15@34?

 

I definitely like the thought of landing on my inside edge out of the 2nd wake, I have the worst time now keeping my edge on that landing.

[Than_Bogan]

In all honesty, I think landing on the inside edge off the 2nd wake is how somebody who can run -32 is going to ski -15. It's hard for me to believe that someone just learning 36/-15 will generate anywhere near enough speed, angle, and leverage before that to be able to just ride it out.

 

But then again, my internal clock is always telling me I'm done pulling, so I have had to focus on pulling longer throughout my career, including at lengths where some folks seems to be working on pulling shorter, such as -35 and -38. If I thought of it that way, I'd never get outside the first ball!

 

Oh, and I'd run both 34/-22 and 36/-15 and I wouldn't necessarily wait to try both of those just to start getting some feel.

[wtrskii3156]

I just tried 36/15 for the first time a few weeks ago. When I aged out of Boys 2 and had to speed up to 36 I went straight to 36/22. 36/15 is a very difficult pass. There is a lot of speed combined with a lot of rope to deal with. This may sound weird but I would try to run all of your passes at 22 off. Start your set at 22 and see what happens. You may find 36/22 to be easier than 36/15.

[gregy]

I just started skiing again and I'm about the same place you are kfennell. I've been free skiing at 36 to get the fell of it, also been trying slower speeds (28 and 30mph) and cutting the rope to get a feel for a shorter line. When I quite years ago I was running 15 and 22 off 36 easy but now it seem really fast. I also have tried 22/34 and 28/34 in the course just to see what I could do, that seemed really fast also (in 34 mph age group now). I used to drop to 34 then 35mph when I was trying to learn a new line length.

 

Good luck, like the other guys say, I think I'm working a lot harder at the slower speeds than when I was skiing 36.

[9400]

" does anyone else have an opinion on what I should start trying after I can run -15@34?"

 

I would then ask myself these questions: Can I run it smoothly, with a consistent rhythm? Can I run it 10 times in a row without missing? What energy level am I using to run it?

 

15 off is tough to run smoothly because it's so easy to stretch the rope to much. I would say on everything you can run, work on being clean, quiet and controlling the rope....be smooth, it will pay off as you advance.

[ral]

@kfennell, how old are you? I started the course when I was over 35, so 34 was my top speed. However, I started skiing some @36 when I was able to run 28 off @34 and I was consistent @ 15 and 22 off @ 34. Could run 15 and 22 @ 36 with no major issues. Have not tried it for a long time now.

 

IMHO, in waterskiing it is more important to be able to run a line length 90%+ of the times than being able to run the next one once in the season. So, if you are about to run 34, I think it is more important to concentrate in running it all the time. Then 36 will be a piece of cake.

 

By the way, one of the main differences between 34 and 36 is the intensity and recovery time of yard sales...

[kfennell]

That's not good to hear!

 

I am 28, so I have to ski 36 for the next 7 years so I better get good at it i guess.

[Horton]

What size is your ski?

Thought about doing 34 / 22off? Then 22 / 36?

[kfennell]

its gigantic because I am compensating :(

 

its a 69" Senate. Ward says it is good till I can run 22@ 36 consistantly.

 

No I haven't thought about that horton, would you say that is an easier way to go?

[ral]

I would go 34/22 off as Horton suggests. It will improve your technique. @ what speed are you starting your sets?

 

It is not a good idea to get a wife before you reach the 34 MPH age...

[kfennell]

I am starting at 30 mph, most sets go tlike this 30, 32, maybe a 2nd 32, then a bunch of 4@ 34.

[mkerzie]

Be patient at 36mph when finishing the turn! Best advice that I got. I ran it less than 2 months later.

[Dirt]

Kevin, many times the drive to get around more buoys hurts your skiing. Instead of perfecting technique and body position we try to hack one more buoy. I would watch video and see if you are happy with your position. If not, work on getting stacked or whatever you don't like. The buoys will come if your position and technique are good.

[Horton]

69 Senate is a HUGE ski at 36 MPH

[Than_Bogan]

Unless someone weighs about 3 bills, I suppose. Wonder if Sione Pouha has any interest in learning slalom...?

[kfennell]

I do weigh alot :( I think I am the heaviest skiier on here at 245

[Than_Bogan]

You're still about 100 short of Sione... (He's the Jets nose tackle, btw.)

 

But more to the point, that ski seems likely to still be too big at 36 mph I'd guess.

[webbdawg99]

In my opinion, the biggest difference when going to 36 is that your edge change needs to happen a split second sooner than at 34.

[kfennell]

So in response to this thread we are going to start skiing @ 22 off and work back through the speeds, I think this will do three things.

 

1. It brings out errors in form easier and makes me ski better

2. It will make it so I can start 36 at 22 off

3. It will let me use the ski that I have a little longer since it is fine for 30-34 22 off.

 

Question, we just dropped the -15 @ 30 and started at -22, which I can run only half the time, is there any merit in leaving the -15 pass that I never miss?

 

Next Question: What is a good ski to learn -36 on? I might get to use Ward's elite while he is trying out some other skis in the fall, will this work? it is 68"

 

Thanks!

[ral]

Start skiing @ 22 off 34MPH AFTER your 15 off 34MPH set. Start where you are now, @ 30, then 32, 32, 34, 34, 22 off @ 34.

[Than_Bogan]

Definitely do not drop 30. To improve your skiing, I firmly believe you must practice TWO passes that you run almost 100%. There just isn't time to improve your technique on passes that are challenging.

 

BUT don't just do them to do them. Focus on doing something specifically better on every easy pass, and then hope for it to carry over to the harder ones where you don't have time to think.

 

See also http://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/3586/passes-per-set-and-routine-advice

[bbrannan127]

I was in a similar position earlier this summer -- just making the climb from 34 to 36. For me, once I was used to 34 (I could ski it consistantly @ 15 and 22) 36 didn't seem that fast, your timing just had to be that much better to stay early. It took me a couple of months to fix my timing issues at 36, but with so much rope at 15 off timing was my only problem.

 

I have some friends who like to say "22 is the same pass as 15." I disagree, but it really isn't that much harder. You lose a little width, but it didn't take me very long to get the 22 pass (skied it for the first time in a tournament last weekend). To help you out at 22, my suggestion would be to ski 15 off as wide as possible in your warm up/practice passes. Once you get up to 36 mph, take 2 or 3 passes and ski WIDE -- at 15 you can get 10-15 feet wide and backside the ball. This helps you get used to the time of leverage and width needed to ski 22, as well has your timing. And it's a TON of fun.

 

Good luck!

Ben

[454SS]

guys, I'm in kinda the same situation, my eventual goal is 36 mph currently at around 32 mph 15 off but literally making faster passes each set. I have had people tell me also that 22 is the same pass as 15 in fact he actually switched the line to 22 at 30 mph on me and I made 2 passes at 22 without knowing it. Should I switch to just skiing 22 off and work on progressing speed wise at that length or keep increasing the speed at 15 off???

[Than_Bogan]

Both :). Each will teach you different things.

[ral]

IMHO 15 off is not the same than 22off, 22off is not the same than 28off and 28off is not the same than 32off. And it keeps going beyond that.