An Open Letter To ZO

[lhoover]

Dear ZO,

 

Allow me this opportunity to thank you for the unbelievably fine product that you bring to our sport. You have developed for the boat industry, without question, the most precise and most consistent speed control ever devised and applied to our specific sport of water skiing. You perform like none other while allowing for choices that suit nearly any style of skiing.

 

No matter the hull difference and weight variance of boats within the same brand, no matter the infinite choice of props, no matter the multiple choice of engines, you deliver. If I put nine people or none in the boat, if I have tons of junk or none in the boat, if I have a full tank of gas or running on fumes, you don't care. If I change skis, or gain weight, or adjust my binders and fin, you are still wonderfully consistent.

 

Your job is to make doggone sure that the mandated time is exact, at each buoy, and you are near flawless. You care not that I am a terrible driver or the best, because your job is the correct speed. With the simplest of input, with the infinite choices of speed desired, with the ease of just enter and go, you are without peer.

 

I realize that there is a ton of moaning and groaning about your exclusivity, or your lack of choices, or your furnishing too many choices. I know that the folks who buy the least expensive boats our Big 3 manufacture usually do the most complaining.

 

Meanwhile, practices are so much better because of the simplicity of your use. Tournaments run so much smoother because times are never an issue. Divorce rates are down since “perfecto hubby” can't complain about speed. Records submitted for approval don't worry about subjective driving, dispensing with the “in the bucket” nonsense. Skiers keep skiing better because they know of, and rely on, your consistency. Knowledgable skiers examine their inconsistency, not yours. You perform every time, just as programmed.

 

Can you improve? Of course you can, nothing being perfect. But while you may tire of all this outrageous, non-productive, without merit criticism, please know there are lots of us out here who adore you. We thank you, and hoist a fine drink in your name.

[lhoover]

OB, can you imagine the foaming at the mouth criticism if they do just that...

[lhoover]

OB, can you imagine the foaming at the mouth criticism if they do just that...

[Than_Bogan]

I agree.

 

Except: I have seen almost no criticism, at least here on BOS, that was outrageous, non-productive, or without merit.

 

ZO is by far the best system ever devised for pulling a skier in a slalom course. I treat that as a given, but perhaps it should be stated explicitly more often.

 

But there are important ways it could be even better.

[Than_Bogan]

I agree.

 

Except: I have seen almost no criticism, at least here on BOS, that was outrageous, non-productive, or without merit.

 

ZO is by far the best system ever devised for pulling a skier in a slalom course. I treat that as a given, but perhaps it should be stated explicitly more often.

 

But there are important ways it could be even better.

[Dirt]

The main complaint is that it is ridiculously expensive to upgrade to ZO. The second is the inconsistency from boat to boat. The third is usually from heavier skiers who feel it much more.

I don't think our sport should implement things that are too expensive and divide the membership.

I can ski behind anything or almost anyone. I just need to able to get the practice sets.

[Dirt]

The main complaint is that it is ridiculously expensive to upgrade to ZO. The second is the inconsistency from boat to boat. The third is usually from heavier skiers who feel it much more.

I don't think our sport should implement things that are too expensive and divide the membership.

I can ski behind anything or almost anyone. I just need to able to get the practice sets.

[disland]

well said.

[disland]

well said.

[Dirt]

I see what you are saying. We should keep boosting the price of the required training equipment until the richest guy can beat everyone else...competition at its best.

I have no issue with skis, ropes, handles, vests, etc.. being expensive. You can still choose to ski on a KD 7000 and be competitive but if you get a completely different pull from the boat you train behind, it is a huge disadvantage. It takes several sets until I get halfway comfortable.

 

As for the wood adjustable ski/polaroid comment, I disagree. My boat is not outdated. It has a good wake, nice pull and gets 16.94-16.96 times almost every time. ZO is not necessarily better. I still believe at least half the skiers would choose PP Classic given the choice in a tournament.

 

Does an A-star do a better job than an MD500 helicopter? One is Vietnam era. The MD500 is much cheaper and preferred by many.

 

I respect your opinions, I just disagree. It is always those that have (and gain an advantage) saying too bad to the have-nots (tournament disadvantaged). JMO

[Dirt]

I see what you are saying. We should keep boosting the price of the required training equipment until the richest guy can beat everyone else...competition at its best.

I have no issue with skis, ropes, handles, vests, etc.. being expensive. You can still choose to ski on a KD 7000 and be competitive but if you get a completely different pull from the boat you train behind, it is a huge disadvantage. It takes several sets until I get halfway comfortable.

 

As for the wood adjustable ski/polaroid comment, I disagree. My boat is not outdated. It has a good wake, nice pull and gets 16.94-16.96 times almost every time. ZO is not necessarily better. I still believe at least half the skiers would choose PP Classic given the choice in a tournament.

 

Does an A-star do a better job than an MD500 helicopter? One is Vietnam era. The MD500 is much cheaper and preferred by many.

 

I respect your opinions, I just disagree. It is always those that have (and gain an advantage) saying too bad to the have-nots (tournament disadvantaged). JMO

[Horton]

I think ZO did a solid job with the product. It is not perfect but is is darn impressive.

 

The issue is what it did to the competitive sport. Guys like Dirt are now discouraged from participating. When you realize that AWSA has roughly 1/2 the membership it did on 1997 it sure seems like a bad time to make it harder to be in this sport. There was a day when the sport was filled with teachers and construction workers. Now the sport is more white collar and wealthy.

[Horton]

I think ZO did a solid job with the product. It is not perfect but is is darn impressive.

 

The issue is what it did to the competitive sport. Guys like Dirt are now discouraged from participating. When you realize that AWSA has roughly 1/2 the membership it did on 1997 it sure seems like a bad time to make it harder to be in this sport. There was a day when the sport was filled with teachers and construction workers. Now the sport is more white collar and wealthy.

[Horton]

@OB

The need for new ZO boats widened the divide between the haves and have nots. Hopefully the ZBox will solve this one issue.

 

It is already hard to get into this sport. It seems like we should not pile on and make it harder.

[Horton]

@OB

The need for new ZO boats widened the divide between the haves and have nots. Hopefully the ZBox will solve this one issue.

 

It is already hard to get into this sport. It seems like we should not pile on and make it harder.

[usaski1]

Man if that wasn't a love letter to ZO... Im still a full 6 balls behind my "normal" good performance with pp, using ZO. Tried all the letters and numbers... Not to mention I'm a little bitter at not being able to upgrade to ZO because of an ECM issue. Im thiking Z-box this spring.

 

[usaski1]

Man if that wasn't a love letter to ZO... Im still a full 6 balls behind my "normal" good performance with pp, using ZO. Tried all the letters and numbers... Not to mention I'm a little bitter at not being able to upgrade to ZO because of an ECM issue. Im thiking Z-box this spring.

 

[jimbrake]

OB - I think what you've done in Atlanta is really impressive and you're right - it's mainly about drive (and passion for the sport), which you obviously have. We have a lot of private ski sites around Sacramento, but nothing that I see that is setup as well or as affordable as yours. I totally see where Dirt is coming from though and can really empathize. Throw your kids into the mix and the "haves" and "have nots" really start to become more obvious. Live on a lake or not? Send your kids to training in FL in the winter or not? Buy new equipment every year or not? Travel to regionals AND nationals every year or not. It's the same in pretty much every sport, though, especially one that is so equipment-dominant like water skiing. I want a new ZO boat at our lake, too, but it ain't happenin', unfortunately. I'll train behind whatever I can, but being a slight "have not" eats at me all the time in this sport (and a few others). Wish I could find a body of water around here that we could transform like you have with yours.

[jimbrake]

OB - I think what you've done in Atlanta is really impressive and you're right - it's mainly about drive (and passion for the sport), which you obviously have. We have a lot of private ski sites around Sacramento, but nothing that I see that is setup as well or as affordable as yours. I totally see where Dirt is coming from though and can really empathize. Throw your kids into the mix and the "haves" and "have nots" really start to become more obvious. Live on a lake or not? Send your kids to training in FL in the winter or not? Buy new equipment every year or not? Travel to regionals AND nationals every year or not. It's the same in pretty much every sport, though, especially one that is so equipment-dominant like water skiing. I want a new ZO boat at our lake, too, but it ain't happenin', unfortunately. I'll train behind whatever I can, but being a slight "have not" eats at me all the time in this sport (and a few others). Wish I could find a body of water around here that we could transform like you have with yours.

[danbirch]

@usaski1, What year is your boat? I upgraded my 07 MC to ZO, and had to swap out the ECM. I think the cost was around $800 more for the ECM. I've gotten a lot of usage from it during the last 2 years, so, I'm happy I "upgraded".

 

BTW, ZO (love 'em or hate 'em) did a brilliant move, business wise. They took out the company who owned the rights to Boat Speed Control systems, and cornered the market share all for themselves. While PP won't use these exact words, I'd call it a hostile takeover, well done.

 

On the other hand, I agree with Horton. BUT, if any business person was in ZO's shoes, they'd jump at the chance, to corner the market for themselves. It's all about $$$. It is what it is, and we're stuck with it.

[danbirch]

@usaski1, What year is your boat? I upgraded my 07 MC to ZO, and had to swap out the ECM. I think the cost was around $800 more for the ECM. I've gotten a lot of usage from it during the last 2 years, so, I'm happy I "upgraded".

 

BTW, ZO (love 'em or hate 'em) did a brilliant move, business wise. They took out the company who owned the rights to Boat Speed Control systems, and cornered the market share all for themselves. While PP won't use these exact words, I'd call it a hostile takeover, well done.

 

On the other hand, I agree with Horton. BUT, if any business person was in ZO's shoes, they'd jump at the chance, to corner the market for themselves. It's all about $$$. It is what it is, and we're stuck with it.

[Jody_Seal]

My Problem with Zero Off currently is their rather poor customer service. When you talk to someone or finally get someone on the phone they are clueless of what they are selling their product too or for application wise. they commonly screw up orders and really do not know their product.

[Jody_Seal]

My Problem with Zero Off currently is their rather poor customer service. When you talk to someone or finally get someone on the phone they are clueless of what they are selling their product too or for application wise. they commonly screw up orders and really do not know their product.

[DavidP]

Per Horton's comment "When you realize that AWSA has roughly 1/2 the membership it did on 1997", does anyone know if AWSA has done "exit surveys or interviews" with folks that have left AWSA to find out why?

[DavidP]

Per Horton's comment "When you realize that AWSA has roughly 1/2 the membership it did on 1997", does anyone know if AWSA has done "exit surveys or interviews" with folks that have left AWSA to find out why?

[DavidP]

No implication, just curious if AWSA or anyone else really knows why the numbers have declined.

[DavidP]

No implication, just curious if AWSA or anyone else really knows why the numbers have declined.

[GAJ0004]

I would say why membership has dropped is the expense of the sport especially at the competitive level. I would hate to be a promo driver because I would not want to have the pressure of selling a boat every year. Think they should change the boat eligibility rules. The boat should still be allowed to be used for tournaments until the next hull design comes out. Then it would be more economical to be a promo driver. With the cost of a new boat today who can afford a new one every year? The competitive part of sport is becoming so expensive. The day may come where you have to have a six figure income to participate. I would have done tournaments alot sooner, but in my 20's I was always struggling to find people to ski with. Most of my friends were married and having kids so the last thing they had time for was going out on the lake. In those days I was lucky to get out two mornings per week to practice. At the time going to tournaments would have cost me too much ski time. I was just starting out in my career at the time so my resources were limited. That is probably why(Men/Women I and II) ranks are thin. Now I have time off during the week to get good water, and some new skiers on the lake who are as crazy as I am about the sport. I don't know how many season I will have where I can do tournaments. All it takes is for my job situation to change.. I am sure alot of people run into the same thing..I would have to say people have other obligations that get in the way of skiing.

 

[GAJ0004]

I would say why membership has dropped is the expense of the sport especially at the competitive level. I would hate to be a promo driver because I would not want to have the pressure of selling a boat every year. Think they should change the boat eligibility rules. The boat should still be allowed to be used for tournaments until the next hull design comes out. Then it would be more economical to be a promo driver. With the cost of a new boat today who can afford a new one every year? The competitive part of sport is becoming so expensive. The day may come where you have to have a six figure income to participate. I would have done tournaments alot sooner, but in my 20's I was always struggling to find people to ski with. Most of my friends were married and having kids so the last thing they had time for was going out on the lake. In those days I was lucky to get out two mornings per week to practice. At the time going to tournaments would have cost me too much ski time. I was just starting out in my career at the time so my resources were limited. That is probably why(Men/Women I and II) ranks are thin. Now I have time off during the week to get good water, and some new skiers on the lake who are as crazy as I am about the sport. I don't know how many season I will have where I can do tournaments. All it takes is for my job situation to change.. I am sure alot of people run into the same thing..I would have to say people have other obligations that get in the way of skiing.

 

[rodltg2]

I used to be part of the " have " group and now I'm more in the "have some" group due to econ. To make matters worse the awesome ski site I was at was sold off to wakeboarders and they are in the process in turning into a cable park. : ( . As a persepective skier considering skiing tournaments in the past, I have no interest now since I cannot afford a boat with ZO . The site I was at last year had a non ZO club boat and a member's promo boat with ZO. For some reason I just didn't feel comfortable using someone else's boat, especially when I dont them well and they are not even there. The club boat with PP was more than adequete for me especially since my skiing really went downhill last season due to lack of time. This coming season I dont know if the juice is really worth the squeeze. Do I fork over $2000 for a membership again? I could spend that $$ on a nice housebat vacation for my whole family to enjoy . Not to mention my ski is getting old and beat up, my bindings are shot, so thats another grand at least. Does my post even have a point?? I really just want to live on a a nice private site with a new 200 on the lift! I'm buying a lottery ticket.

[rodltg2]

I used to be part of the " have " group and now I'm more in the "have some" group due to econ. To make matters worse the awesome ski site I was at was sold off to wakeboarders and they are in the process in turning into a cable park. : ( . As a persepective skier considering skiing tournaments in the past, I have no interest now since I cannot afford a boat with ZO . The site I was at last year had a non ZO club boat and a member's promo boat with ZO. For some reason I just didn't feel comfortable using someone else's boat, especially when I dont them well and they are not even there. The club boat with PP was more than adequete for me especially since my skiing really went downhill last season due to lack of time. This coming season I dont know if the juice is really worth the squeeze. Do I fork over $2000 for a membership again? I could spend that $$ on a nice housebat vacation for my whole family to enjoy . Not to mention my ski is getting old and beat up, my bindings are shot, so thats another grand at least. Does my post even have a point?? I really just want to live on a a nice private site with a new 200 on the lift! I'm buying a lottery ticket.

[crashman]

If you want to see skiing at a cost-effective level, come spend a day at my ski club. Membership is $250 a year, we lease the lake from a gravel company and it's used by our club as well as the Ball State University ski and wakeboard teams. It's a bring your own boat club- a few of the members have ski supreme's they bought new back in the 80s (see my profile pic). I'm not sure there's a single ZO ski boat at our club- my closest partner has a 08 malibu but it has PP. Our club has mostly blue collar workers who use the club for their vacation time. We don't have great skiers but we do have passionate skiers, and most don't spend any money on AWSA memberships because they don't ski tournaments and don't perceive any value in a membership. They just want to spend their weekends with friends and family and ski a few sets.

[crashman]

If you want to see skiing at a cost-effective level, come spend a day at my ski club. Membership is $250 a year, we lease the lake from a gravel company and it's used by our club as well as the Ball State University ski and wakeboard teams. It's a bring your own boat club- a few of the members have ski supreme's they bought new back in the 80s (see my profile pic). I'm not sure there's a single ZO ski boat at our club- my closest partner has a 08 malibu but it has PP. Our club has mostly blue collar workers who use the club for their vacation time. We don't have great skiers but we do have passionate skiers, and most don't spend any money on AWSA memberships because they don't ski tournaments and don't perceive any value in a membership. They just want to spend their weekends with friends and family and ski a few sets.

[jimbrake]

Hey OB - just a heads-up. Even if your kids get into other "traditional sports", you will be spending like crazy if you want them to excel and keep up with or exceed the "Jones's" kids (not you Scot Jones). And the down side is that all you can do is watch them and support them (although that is a lot of fun, too, but you spend a lot of time on your a$$). You don't get to do the sport with them, which is one of the cool things about non-traditional sports like water skiing.

 

My two boys love competitive water skiing, but they both do other sports - one is year-round volleyball and the other is budding pole vaulter (crap, I hope I haven't told this story before) and we pour a lot of our resources that way. At some point they may have to cut their skiing back in favor of these other sports (I hope not, but...). I think it's funny to imagine them being in college on the volleyball or track team and the water ski team finds out about their skiing abilities. "Hey, did you guys know there is a guy on the volleyball/track team that can run 38? WTF?" Not sure they'll ever run 38, but it makes me laugh thinking about that scenario.

[jimbrake]

Hey OB - just a heads-up. Even if your kids get into other "traditional sports", you will be spending like crazy if you want them to excel and keep up with or exceed the "Jones's" kids (not you Scot Jones). And the down side is that all you can do is watch them and support them (although that is a lot of fun, too, but you spend a lot of time on your a$$). You don't get to do the sport with them, which is one of the cool things about non-traditional sports like water skiing.

 

My two boys love competitive water skiing, but they both do other sports - one is year-round volleyball and the other is budding pole vaulter (crap, I hope I haven't told this story before) and we pour a lot of our resources that way. At some point they may have to cut their skiing back in favor of these other sports (I hope not, but...). I think it's funny to imagine them being in college on the volleyball or track team and the water ski team finds out about their skiing abilities. "Hey, did you guys know there is a guy on the volleyball/track team that can run 38? WTF?" Not sure they'll ever run 38, but it makes me laugh thinking about that scenario.

[Horton]

@crashm I want to ski w/ you. Where are you?

[Horton]

@crashm I want to ski w/ you. Where are you?

[crashman]

@Horton I'm in Muncie, IN- about 40 miles Northeast of Indianapolis. smack in the middle of the rust belt. growing up most of my friends' dads worked in factories which have since shut down- thousands of jobs gone from our town. I know of at least one guy in our club who works 6 days a week at the GM truck plant in Fort Wayne which is an hour north of here. When he's on 2onds or 3rds he'll grab a set before he heads to work, and when his factory shuts down to retool in July he spends every day at the club. If you come ski with me I'll even fire up the smokey joe and grill you some hot dogs.

[crashman]

@Horton I'm in Muncie, IN- about 40 miles Northeast of Indianapolis. smack in the middle of the rust belt. growing up most of my friends' dads worked in factories which have since shut down- thousands of jobs gone from our town. I know of at least one guy in our club who works 6 days a week at the GM truck plant in Fort Wayne which is an hour north of here. When he's on 2onds or 3rds he'll grab a set before he heads to work, and when his factory shuts down to retool in July he spends every day at the club. If you come ski with me I'll even fire up the smokey joe and grill you some hot dogs.

[crashman]

@OB no doubt your club is a great deal for a club that comes with a boat; I compare it to golf- I'm not a golfer but I think a family membership to a good golf club costs around 2-3 k; So I think 2 k a year for a club with a boat is a great deal.

 

What makes our club cheap for these guys is that they've owned the same boats since 1987 and done all the maintenance themselves. They can rebuild the carbs themselves and such.

[crashman]

@OB no doubt your club is a great deal for a club that comes with a boat; I compare it to golf- I'm not a golfer but I think a family membership to a good golf club costs around 2-3 k; So I think 2 k a year for a club with a boat is a great deal.

 

What makes our club cheap for these guys is that they've owned the same boats since 1987 and done all the maintenance themselves. They can rebuild the carbs themselves and such.

[Ed_Obermeier]

@lhoover wins my vote for best sarcastic post to date. Good job of pouring gasoline on a long smouldering but almost dead fire and maintaining a straight face while doing so. Surely I'm not the only one who got that?

 

I find it amusing and somewhat interesting that this thread became a discussion about what "Have-not's" ought to be doing to not be Have-not's anymore when the current poll shows that a full 89% of poll respondents ski fewer than 10 sets per week, the majority of that group skiing 6 or fewer sets per week. IMO this is pretty clear evidence that the vast majority doesn't get the opportunity, have the time, have the bucks, have easy course access, or really even give a damn etc etc to invest in becoming "haves" in serious competitive skiing. Looks a lot different from the Have-not side of the divide as @rodltg2 correctly pointed out. If you're able to create the ways and means for yourself that's great and I'm all for it (and somewhat jealous of it if I'm being completely honest). For a lot of completely understandable and completely legitimate reasons (as JAG0004 pointed out above), for a lot of folks whether we're willing to recognize it or not, that just ain't realistic for the majority. If it were we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[Ed_Obermeier]

@lhoover wins my vote for best sarcastic post to date. Good job of pouring gasoline on a long smouldering but almost dead fire and maintaining a straight face while doing so. Surely I'm not the only one who got that?

 

I find it amusing and somewhat interesting that this thread became a discussion about what "Have-not's" ought to be doing to not be Have-not's anymore when the current poll shows that a full 89% of poll respondents ski fewer than 10 sets per week, the majority of that group skiing 6 or fewer sets per week. IMO this is pretty clear evidence that the vast majority doesn't get the opportunity, have the time, have the bucks, have easy course access, or really even give a damn etc etc to invest in becoming "haves" in serious competitive skiing. Looks a lot different from the Have-not side of the divide as @rodltg2 correctly pointed out. If you're able to create the ways and means for yourself that's great and I'm all for it (and somewhat jealous of it if I'm being completely honest). For a lot of completely understandable and completely legitimate reasons (as JAG0004 pointed out above), for a lot of folks whether we're willing to recognize it or not, that just ain't realistic for the majority. If it were we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[ForrestGump]

The exodus from the AWSA started long before ZO came into being, and coincides with the increase in popularity in wakeboarding and the increase in number of private lake sites. I'm not saying that skiers started wakeboarding. But as children and prospective new skiers turned to wakeboarding and others started seeing the increase in costs due to moving off of public sites, the numbers started dwindling. Blaming this on ZO is misplaced at best.

[ForrestGump]

The exodus from the AWSA started long before ZO came into being, and coincides with the increase in popularity in wakeboarding and the increase in number of private lake sites. I'm not saying that skiers started wakeboarding. But as children and prospective new skiers turned to wakeboarding and others started seeing the increase in costs due to moving off of public sites, the numbers started dwindling. Blaming this on ZO is misplaced at best.

[MattP]

I agree with @OB on this one.

[MattP]

I agree with @OB on this one.

[Ed_Obermeier]

George, I don't have much experience with ZO personally so I can't speak from that perspective. Perhaps for serious competitors able to familiarize themselves that may be true. HOWEVER it does seem to have thrown up a wall some folks can't get over due to lack of access. Whether actual or perceived the result is still the same - a number of folks (how to quantify that?) are scared away from active competition due to lack of familarity with how it skis. Net result is the same - dwindling numbers competing actively. I'm hopeful that the Z-Box solves that issue and we can put this to bed finally. I'm not blaming ZO for the dwindling numbers, I'm in agreement with several of the posts above that list numerous contributing factors. If the Z-Box removes that one it would be a huge positive IMO.

[Ed_Obermeier]

George, I don't have much experience with ZO personally so I can't speak from that perspective. Perhaps for serious competitors able to familiarize themselves that may be true. HOWEVER it does seem to have thrown up a wall some folks can't get over due to lack of access. Whether actual or perceived the result is still the same - a number of folks (how to quantify that?) are scared away from active competition due to lack of familarity with how it skis. Net result is the same - dwindling numbers competing actively. I'm hopeful that the Z-Box solves that issue and we can put this to bed finally. I'm not blaming ZO for the dwindling numbers, I'm in agreement with several of the posts above that list numerous contributing factors. If the Z-Box removes that one it would be a huge positive IMO.

[Ed_Obermeier]

ZO is the best thing that happened to competitive water skiing. Maybe not backyard slalom, or the INT league, or folks just starting out...but if you're just starting out, you don't NEED any speed control.

 

Gotta respectfully disagree with that statement OB. Consistanty of pull, regardless of the speed or level you ski at, has to be a net positive. Can't improve without consistancy, both in your skiing style and in the pull you're working with.