MOOMBA OPEN SLALOM 2012

[greekwaterski]

I read: "Billy was witnessed by spectators running 4.5, organizers announced 4.5, and later, when Nate went down early, changed to 4. Billy was also returned refused protest's money, and there is a picture providing evidence he run 4.5."

Comments???

 

[auskier]

i know your understanding of the event is not quite right.

 

To suggest that billy was 'sacrificed' for the sake of nate... yeah right!

[ForrestGump]

I in know way am claiming there is a conspiracy. But the pic I saw had his ski outside of 5.

[Horton]

@greekwaterski @auskier I spoke to Billy yesterday. At this moment he is being somewhat reserved about commenting on the event.

 

In a 20 minute conversation, he never suggested that he believed any other skier's score had anything to do with how his score went in the book.

 

[danbirch]

His ski was inside of 5 ball. They have video. The announcers were wrong.

[skidawg]

Look, all conspiracy theory's aside--judges at all levels make mistakes, class c to l; they all don't handle it in a proper manner. I don't know what happened down under but if a bad call was made it was most likely not done on purpose to help a skier, more so just a stiff necked poor judgement of someone not willing to say, my bad, I made a mistake...just my .02!

[Horton]

@skidawg that is more or less what I hear happened. The problem is it was a Pro event and it cost thousands of $ to attend.

 

@danbirch There is video. Wish we could all see it. Billy is 100% confident that he rounded 5. He has seen the video. I believe him. - I do grasp that there are two sides to every story but am yet to see or hear the other side. Would be surprised to ever hear the other side.

[danbirch]

wierd....I know the announcers were all over the place with their calls...but they did their best.

[Horton]

@danbirch exactly

[Than_Bogan]

Also, isn't Moomba usually crazy water conditions? That can make the job of a judge a lot harder.

[disland]

Have you ever seen a blown foul call in an NBA game? Of course they happen every other play. Maybe someday when we have 25 High def cameras like the NFL we can have the millions of fans on TV watch comercials while the judges go under the hood and watch slo mo replays from every angle to get it right. I am sure the trick skiers would love that. We will see all those tip drags and Sports center can talk the whole next day about if Jimmy pre turned that Mobe

[jdarwin]

disland - I agree with you but as an LOC, we are forced to provide enough technology that this should not occur. The requirement of video from the boat (in addition to the 5 event judges that were used) should be sufficient to allow the correct call to be made every time. I'm not certain as to what occured at this event but if skier made it around 5 ball, there should be enough visual evidence to confirm - if the judges were paying attention and the technology was being utilized appropriately.

[greekwaterski]

@auskier My understanding is, that possible poor judgement, subsequently, altered the proper composition of skiers participating in the next round. Also, announcers were repeating judges' radio transmitted 'confirmed scores'.

[disland]

@jdarwin I agree completely

[Horton]

I have for a long time wished that boat footage from pro events could be made public after the event. I originally wanted it for you guys to watch and enjoy. Now I am thinking there is a better reason. Including Billy’s deal, I heard of 3 or 4 scores / official decisions that were questionable from Moomba. All the way across the planet, I cannot know if these claims are real or how blatant they are.

 

Perhaps this presents a logistics issue with protests/reviews or a reimagining of the rules but I do not see how it is a step backward. What if the skier could view the ride before deciding to protest or not? In the end all anyone should want is scores that reflect what happened on the water.

 

[Wish]

Were the buoys Goode bubble buoys. I know somewhere on here there was a thread ( re: Chad Scott I believe ) that showed a still of the ski looking like it split the buoy in half and he skied away. Was back and forth on posts as to what that score should be. Gotta think that makes it even tougher on judges.

[ctsmith]

We need a sideline report from Seal.

[Horton]

@Wish. That was my photo and the skier was Karina. I am not sure if she is speaking to me since then. Guess I will find out this summer.

 

@ctsmith Is he back?

 

Seal if you read this ... call me

[ctsmith]

He's back but crashing I'm sure.

[Wish]

@Horton ooops! Sorry about that. Was Moomba possibly another controversy in the making with bubble buoys? Or were they traditional buoys?. My huge bad for mistaking Karina for Chad Scott in my head trying to remember that photo. Not sure how that happened.

[Horton]

@Wish maybe there was another photo I am unaware of.... I seems hard for me to believe anyone would confuse Karina with Chad. I am going to say that has most likely never happened before ...

[jdarwin]

I believe the photo that Wish referenced was taken by Kelvin Kelm at Nationals a couple of years ago. The skier (name escapes me) was shot running over the buoy. He eventually won the M3 title. Chad was 2nd.

[Horton]

@jdarwin so I should fix the @Wish 's signature line?

[skidawg]

Milford.

[Dirt]

This type of thing is the exact reason we need to immediately implement mandatory drug testing of all officials (not just drivers) and thorough background checks. Medical exams with complete vision tests are also in order. Maybe we need to make all the officials federal agents, like they did the security guards at airports (TSA) and that might make things right. Oh yeah, and the officials should pay for the background checks and medicals themselves.

 

I am actually thinking a vision exam is in order. I have seen some ridiculous calls.

[jdarwin]

@Horton - yes.

[BSusi]

Hey guys, no they were not bubble buoys.

[auskier]

Dave apparently sent out a set for them to be used. They seem to have been lost in transit. Moomba course guru's dave and 'pud' didnt think they would work overly well anyway. A LOT of debris floats down the river. The shape of a regular bouy means that most of it isnt an issue. Bubble buoys would catch stuff a lot easier and get affected by the current more. Things going in the yarra need to be durable.

[auskier]

@greekwaterski there were incorrect scores announced multiple times. The scoring judges did not have radio's (except the boat obviously), so several times they misunderstood things.

[Wish]

Could this be what Wish was talking about?

 

YES!!! thank u @Brent. Now I can show this to my therapist and explain why I did NOT confuse Karina and Chad. I owe you a beer Brent. You may have saved me thousands in therapy.

[Kelvin]

Here is the photo Joe referred to as well. At 2009 Nationals Milford hit 2 ball at 39off, but went on to score about 3.5. Chad followed with a score of 2.5 or so to take second.http://static-cl1.vanilladev.com/ballofspray.vanillaforums.com/uploads/FileUpload/79/cbc84e6a203c6e7c6b107f36fd5c9e.jpghttp://static-cl1.vanilladev.com/ballofspray.vanillaforums.com/uploads/FileUpload/f3/d8f11e30a0ad0b42830f6b2b8a48f3.jpg

[Chef23]

At real time speed I can see how the calls on both the photos above and the video above would be very tough to make.

[Kelvin]

Chef23, I agree. I believe both of those Nationals were Class E events which did not require boat video as a backup. The photos/videos were unofficial cameras.

[Than_Bogan]

Don't forget the rule book is very clear that any doubt goes to the skier. If we want to have frame-by-frame replays to get things "exact" at the top events, that's fine. But we also have to realize that judges are supposed to award the points unless they can CLEARLY see that they shouldn't. If a judge does that with whatever input he/she has (real-time, video, super-slo-mo, whatever), then that is correct judging.

 

Of course, I've still seen egregious calls: If you're on the outside and you can see the entire ball the entire time, the skier didn't go around it!! (So far I've personally witnessed that error made twice in R tournaments; one was Nationals.)

[disland]

Than, Amen Brother

[Ed_Johnson]

That picture truly defines a " 1/2 BUOY."

[Chuck_Dickey]

Also shows how safe the bubble buoys are!

[Phil2360]

Well caught shot @Kevin, What did you use out of interest?

[Jody_Seal]

Slalom on the Yarra even when it is behaving nice at best is challenging. I have had a couple of sets on the Yarra and it is a humbling experience. For these great Athletes that enter the Moomba it can be a crap shoot on when the the tide is in or out and how hard the river is running. Driving the event is a challenge as coming under the Swan street bridge from the starting dock the boat looses GPS signal and at the 55's The water is very rough for the skiers gate pull out add that up getting a good start is tough as hell. On the other end the 55's are right after a rather tight right turn in and if the driver is not consistent and progressive into the course the gate pullout again is screwed, it is crucial for a good gate approach on this end as because the course is cross cabled the gate buoy's can move in and then apart upwards of 10" total sometimes leaving the skier out to dry and getting their gates pulled by the judges.

 

One of the problems in this sport (and It is prevalent in many tournaments not specific to the Moomba) is that our rules have out distanced the capabilities of the the equipment needed to facilitate the tournament, Another words some of the technical hardware, cameras, recording equipment and general Video appliances are substandard or barely work well enough to be utilized and then that impacts decisions by the judges utilizing that equipment due to poor reception or video integrity. The equipment utilized at the Moomba for gate judging and overall video replay was not as good as what I have seen at other tournaments throughout the world. The judges did not have the best of equipment across the board to make the decisions needed to facilitate A clean interpretation and call the event, However they did the best they could with tools provided. I think my only suggestion to the judges panel is to be a little more lenient on the gates due to the movement of them as explained above.

 

Hats off to Mr. Darren Robertson for undertaking the biggest event in the world and jumping through the hoops he is made to jump through in order to bring this Great event to fruition. I can tell all that Darren and His Group has done an extremely fantastic job of Producing the Moomba and bring the sport of 3 event competitive Tournament water skiing to Melbourne's general public sporting spectator base. Showing our sport to more than a million people on the banks of the Yarra in three day's is truly an accomplishment! Thank You Darren!

 

To Waldi and Glen (Chief driver and chief judge) Thank you for doing a great job and Especially thanks goes out to Wayne Briant For being the go to guy on the site for everything tournament related.

Nautiques provided us Two great rides to pull the event they ran flawless the whole week.

Thank you Nautiques!

 

 

One other thing, the Speed Skiing exhibition was sic!

http://static-cl1.vanilladev.com/ballofspray.vanillaforums.com/uploads/FileUpload/2c/ca8ece3da967bc7f16c63e6c2c6aec.jpg

http://static-cl1.vanilladev.com/ballofspray.vanillaforums.com/uploads/FileUpload/b9/ee4174e1a4cb9cb75d9074b6fec7d7.jpg

http://static-cl1.vanilladev.com/ballofspray.vanillaforums.com/uploads/FileUpload/9e/1c483a4bf4f7fcabdc665a9ee91606.jpg

http://static-cl1.vanilladev.com/ballofspray.vanillaforums.com/uploads/FileUpload/77/476c05c8da2a61893877776eb1a263.jpghttp://static-cl1.vanilladev.com/ballofspray.vanillaforums.com/uploads/FileUpload/11/a05ebdf6170440ad156b59b14c0605.jpg

 

[Chuck_Dickey]

@kevin

 

These pictures also shows how safe the bubble buoys are! to be hit full on at 39 off and ski away is terrific! Thanks Goode!

[Jody_Seal]

More photos from the event.http://static-cl1.vanilladev.com/ballofspray.vanillaforums.com/uploads/FileUpload/e2/18fcbb148b112d0c919c987c12f41f.jpg

http://static-cl1.vanilladev.com/ballofspray.vanillaforums.com/uploads/FileUpload/88/b67069240acbc5cb4e64c84b35e935.jpg

http://static-cl1.vanilladev.com/ballofspray.vanillaforums.com/uploads/FileUpload/f3/18f80e3335b49c15372185c7794709.jpg

http://static-cl1.vanilladev.com/ballofspray.vanillaforums.com/uploads/FileUpload/fb/074aab48e3120298b83e41a885a230.jpg

http://static-cl1.vanilladev.com/ballofspray.vanillaforums.com/uploads/FileUpload/76/4d98ca7a9789e5cdd0239831655c7a.jpg

http://static-cl1.vanilladev.com/ballofspray.vanillaforums.com/uploads/FileUpload/f7/c92bc8cdf2519f0ff74f7e80a37fc5.jpg

http://static-cl1.vanilladev.com/ballofspray.vanillaforums.com/uploads/FileUpload/0e/e06f65e6a1f605b37a77b46b42a825.jpg

http://static-cl1.vanilladev.com/ballofspray.vanillaforums.com/uploads/FileUpload/4c/4ecf6e0d1b7c99ccc529fc4a60eea2.jpg

[Milford]

The Goode Bubble Buoy was introduced in 2010. In 2009, they did not exist. Definitely felt something at 2 ball, but was centered over the ski enough to ski through it.

[Horton]

I am not going to pull out the rule book... someone straighten me out.

 

In the photo of Milford, if the bottom of his feet end up wide of the center line of the ball at the ball line... that is all that matters. Right? If he ski is still gaining width the fact that the tip of his ski hit the ball is besides the point... Or am I wrong (it happens)

 

In those photos it is a matter of a inch or two

[Dirt]

I don't want to comment on a specific photo. I was not there and didn't see it real time. Correct me if I am wrong but you cannot significantly displace the buoy.

[Dirt]

Here are the rules I believe you are referring to:

 

 

10.01 General

A. The contestant shall follow the towboat through the entrance gate of the

slalom course, pass around the outside of any or all six buoys and proceed

through the far end gate which constitutes a pass. If the contestant has not

missed any buoys or gates, the boat shall turn and enter the course from the

opposite end. The skier shall continue in this manner until he falls or misses a

buoy or gate.

 

10.03 A Miss

A. It is a miss to ride inside a turn buoy or outside the entrance or exit gate, or

to ride over, straddle, or jump a turn buoy, but there is no penalty for grazing

a turn or gate buoy with the ski or part of the body.

B. Riding over shall be defined as hitting a turn or gate buoy with the ski so as to

move it significantly from its position or temporarily sink it. Hitting a turn or

exit gate buoy less severely shall be considered as grazing. (See chart in

Appendix)

 

[Horton]

@Dirt

Thanks. In 20+ years this is the first time I have seen you actually provide good information.