New to trick skiing questions

[FrankS]

I am new to trick skiing and can only do simple surface turns and some wake jumps. I am looking to become a better trick skier so what should i start working on next?

Also, I am currently skiing on a very old 41" ski that I had to drill into to put a back binding on as it was from a pair of two trick skis and didn't have a back binding. I am 180 and according to the D3 website that is not right. Would getting a new ski be helpful? If so what model/size? Do any of you have any skis that you would be willing to sell?

Thanks

[Chef23]

A new ski would definitely help. You could probably go with either a 43 or 44 inch ski. The 44 would be easier to do surface turns on but wouldn't be as good for flips and tougher wake tricks. Used trick skis tend to be hard to find.

 

The basic surface turns are side slides, 180 front to back and back to front. The reverse of those. Surface 360s both ways. Next up would be turns off the wake to both sides. There are people on here that know a lot more than I do and I am sure they will chip in. Have fun with it.

[slalom frog]

I second the benefit of a properly sized trick ski. I am using a D3 rubber edge, 44".

[klindy]

I'd suggest a 43" ski (42" at a minimum). A rubber edges ski is probably more 'universal' and would be my first choice until you start getting into more advanced tricks. Use the factory recommended binding placement for the front binding (IMPORTANT! - Binding screws are SHORTER for trick skis than they are for slalom skis!!). Any binding that's comfortable (but snug) will do as long as it's non-adjustable. Many are opting for a hard shell binding but a good Wiley Trick Wrap will be fine too (but less comfortable). Rear binding should be mounted 45 degrees +/- so your foot is essentially 'centered' over the ski. Put the front binding on and stand where you're comfortable and have someone mark it for the rear binding placement.

 

Rope length and boat speed are next - Choose a speed where you feel the ski is "on top" of the water and not 'dragging'. Probably start with something close to 17mph and go up/down from there. Once the speed is close, make the rope long enough to find a 'flat' spot between the wakes. Usually, if you're comfortable on the ski, you can jump both wakes with "average" effort. Adjust accordingly.

 

For learning tricks, learn the basic surface and wake tricks very well - think "drills". Obviously they're the building blocks of every trick from then on. Bent, flexible knees are important! Staying balanced over the ski with your weight evenly distributed are a must - head up, handle in close to your body.

 

Like has been said already "side-slides", back/front, front/back (and reverse) surface turns are first, wake back wake front (and reverse are next). Do them correctly and deliberately. There are variations of them (back wrap position) which are next. Post a bit more detail of where you are on the learing curve and post a video if you can.

 

 

[FrankS]

Thanks for the help guys. There is a 44" rubber edge d3 on ski it again. There is also a 43-3/4" goodman slot, a 44" rubber edge ho extreme and some 42" "trick systems". Would one of these skis be a good choice for me? Also, what does a rubber edge do for you other than a hard edge?

Thanks

 

[E_T]

@Horton

[Horton]

The hard edge is cheaper to make I think - some high end skiers like the Rubber better. I think it is more about the construction than the edge itself. You need to ask a real tricker - I quit 20 years ago.

[MattP]

If @eleeski chimes in listen to him, if he says anything about slalom and testing one of his skis run very, very fast.

[klindy]

Hard edge may be slightly less expensive. Rubber edge is a good toe ski and hard edge generally better for wake tricks. That said, a rubber edge ski is a good overall ski. At your stage either would work.

 

I personally think a 44" ski it a bit big for you but it won't hurt and will likely be better than what you have currently.

[MattP]

If @eleeski chimes in listen to him, if he says anything about slalom and testing one of his skis run very, very fast.

[eleeski]

I'd go with the D3 hardedge, Quantum or Goode in as big a ski as you can find (43" min, 44"+ better on these designs). Most high level skiers are on a hardedge of some sort. And using hardshells. A new modern ski will be a noticeable improvement.

 

Rope 22 or 28 off (shorter to have fun with the wakes, longer for surface turns). Boat speed around 18mph (slower if all your falls are slip falls, faster if you catch edges a lot). On your tiny 41" ski you might need even faster but some of those old skis are slick and you might need slower. Experiment.

 

Work on playing on the ski. Have fun with wake jumps and show off tricks. If you can do simple surface tricks like B F O you are pretty good already. Keep working on those and doing them off the wake. Ride around one footed to prepare for toe tricks. Use a Masterline Robbins release with a savvy operator to pick up toe tricks - they are quite fun once you get them figured out.

 

Coaching really helps.

 

Hour long sets are the real key to advancing in tricks. At least the fuel burn is lower.

 

Eric

 

I watched Mike Murphy do a decent trick run - on his slalom ski. But that's the advice Matt is warning you about.

[FrankS]

Thanks guys for all the help. For bindings I am currently using a wiley that I had sitting around but it is not a trick wrap. Would it be worth getting a new binding if i got a new ski and would it be worth going for hardshells right away? What would I notice in hardshells that would be better than a regular high wrap binding?

[klindy]

Hardshells generally offer better edge control and are (or should be) significantly more comfortable than a snug Wiley binding. Given a choice I'd opt to go to a hardshell binding right away. You could always switch later too as you improve since you have a rubber binding already.

[FrankS]

do you guys know if there is any difference between the 2009/10 d3 cx and the 2011 or 2012 ones?

 

[klindy]

I don't know for sure but I doubt there are any significant changes.

[Chef23]

I think the only difference is in the graphics. If you are going to buy new wait until Nationals D3 usually runs a sale during Nationals.

[RichardDoane]

@FrankS - call Darren @ Wiley's, he has access to Quantums and D3's and can rewrap your binding if you want to keep using the rubber boot

[FrankS]

Do any of you know anything about the goodman slot trick ski or if it is good? There is on on ski it again that I was looking at.

thanks

 

[Not_The_Pug]

Goodman's make a very good trick ski. It is well built. It is probably a better hand ski than a toe trick ski. It get's great air off the wakes.

 

Kevin

[FrankS]

thanks but would it work for toe tricks too if I am only going to get 1 ski?

 

[klindy]

It would also work fine for toes. While some elite trickers prefer a hard edge for wake (hand) turns and a rubber edge for toes, for you mean and 98% of the rest of us either would work fine.

[eleeski]

Toes are tough on a Slot. You can do them but the falls are fast and hard - and dangerous. The Slot might not be the best for a one ski quiver. Great for air tricks though!

 

D3 Hardedge is an acceptable one ski quiver choice. There are better toe skis and better hand skis (that Goodman?) but there is a reason so many trickers are on the D3 hardedge. The Quantum or Goode also work well for a one ski choice but they are not as common so harder to find used. The new skis are great (the newer D3s are a bit lighter but I think from the same mold) and I would recommend a brand new ski. If not a new ski, a used D3 hardedge will develop your skills to where you can appreciate the new ski.

 

Lots of trickers use a Reflex hardshell and they are also common used. That will also help your learning curve.

 

Eric

[FrankS]

How about the goodman chubby stubby?

 

[FrankS]

Would the goodman chubby stubby be better than the slot for having one ski for everything?

[tfriess]

@FrankS is looking for some help on the goodman chubby stubby

[eleeski]

The Chubby Stubby and the Slot are excellent advanced skis - not an entry level ski.

 

Old skis don't work as well as new ones. Money may be better spent on newer equipment even if it costs a bit more.

 

D3 Hardedge, Goode and Quantum are the skis that I have seen the best improvements from basics in the kids I have coached. Worth the money.

 

Eric

[FrankS]

Ok thanks for all of your help.

[DaveD]

What trick releases are recommended? Do these releases work well on towers too?

[eleeski]

I think the Masterline Robbins release is fantastic. Easy to use and reasonably safe I feel most comfortable hooked up to this release.

 

I have years of skiing behind an ARE release. Easy to use but quite dependant on the skill of the operator. Also there are possible issues with side load releases - but I never had that problem.

 

I currently also use the Masterline split pin release. It is a pain and dependant on the operator but Lisa likes it and it is easy to switch with the Robbins release.

 

Rope releases are good for kids. I hate them for me as I pull too hard.

 

I have never used a release on a tower. Hmmm??

 

Eric

[FrankS]

I found a 43" 2008 d3 hardedge on ski it again for $500. He says that it has only been used a couple of times and looks new but he didn't post any pictures but I can ask him for pictures. Is $500 a good price for a 2008 and also is there any difference between the 2008 and the new ones? Should I buy this ski?

[Chef23]

I think the only difference is with the graphics on it. The skis are $649 new. You will definitely want the RTP. $500 might be a little high but it isn't crazy. If you need the bindings make him a package offer of some sort. I paid in that neighborhood for my son's ski a few years ago used including the RTP but it was current model year and very lightly used.

 

During Nationals (which are in two weeks) D3 usually runs a sale I forget what the discount usually is. It might be worth a call to D3 and check it out and see what they would do for you.

[FrankS]

Thanks, do you have to be at nationals to get this discount or can you get it directly from d3?

[FrankS]

.

[Chef23]

@FrankS it is usually posted on the D3 website.