question on A-1 fin settings

[ToddF]

First time posting here.

 

I currently ski on a 67.5 A-1 6' 195. I can usually get around the four ball at 35 off 34 mph. right now that seems about it.

 

my settings are: Binding one hole back. 6.796 length, 2.503 depth, 9 degrees on the wing, and right now .92 on the dtf.. Which seems to be a lot, but I feel like I can turn better and seem to be skiing okay with it there.

 

I know that I don't know anything about fin adjustment or enough to be stupid.

 

Do these settings seem way off? I am thinking about maybe going to .94 dft because each time I have moved it seems to get better.

 

I sure appreciate any insight.

 

Thanks

 

Todd

 

 

[Cam]

Stock settings for this ski are

Front binding 29.75"

Length 6.840" tips

Depth 2.508"

DFT 0.770"

 

I have stuck with these settings and binding at one hole back with no problems, my best on it is 5 buoys back from you.

[ForrestGump]

Todd, that is a LOT of DFT. Wayyyy different from stock. Here is stock for an A1.

 

front binding 29.75

dft 0.77 0 using head of caliper, not needle

length 6.84 0

depth 2.508

wing 9

 

You've got less length and the fin is a LOT forward, which means you're effectively taking away something that makes the A1 perform, which is tip pressure. Personally, I'd put it to bone stock and just see what happens. If your settings work, they work. But that's radically different.

[ToddF]

I have had them set up stock before, and I probably ski about the same, just not as consistent. It always seems like my off side turns aren't as tight or I get forward more often.

 

But maybe I will try it again.

 

 

 

 

[webbdawg99]

I'm really a novice on fin settings and what adjustments do what. I just measured my A1 for the first time in 2 seasons. What performance differences will the following settings create relative to the factory settings? I've listed factory settings in parentheses.

 

Depth 2.492 (2.508)

Length 6.687 (6.840)

Dft .905 (.770)

Wing 9 (9)

 

So it looks like my fin is shallow, short, and forward. What does this equate to?

 

 

[ForrestGump]

I would go back to stock. The way you have it would have to be a serious lack of tip pressure. Where are your bindings?

[webbdawg99]

1 hole back. I don't have that measurement

[ForrestGump]

You've got a serious lack of fin ratio, probably only workable because of the extreme forward position you have on the fin.

[SkiJay]

@webbdawg99 It would help to know how far up the line you are skiing, but I'll assume that you are at full speed and into somewhere around 28 off or shorter. I'm making these assumptions because what I'm going to describe below is somewhat moot unless you are a frequent skier and you are loading your ski more than is the case if you are skiing at lower speeds and long-line.

 

Now to try and answer your question, "What performance differences will the following settings create relative to the factory settings?" The short length makes it harder than stock to engage the tip of your ski (which is not helpful with recent Syndicate skis which are designed to ride tip-low). You would probably find it difficult to finish your turns at the ball, especially on your off-side, except that your fin is so far forward, and so shallow, that the tail of the ski is not holding as it should, allowing you to smear/drift/force the tail around turns. This is likely not very good for your technique in the long run. Your setup is also not helping your speed or width. The shallow fin will make the ski feel less stable than stock, and make it hard to generate good angle off the ball. These fin-forward shallow settings will also tend to make the edge change too abrupt, sending you more at the next ball rather than on a wider and earlier trajectory. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm picturing your most common fails as being wheelies or blowing out the tail at the ball.

 

Your setup isn't a disaster, and of course it is skiable. But the way your ski is set up, it is very likely less stable, slower, narrower, and more inconsistent in the turns than what you should expect from the stock settings. If you are an infrequent skier, you might not even be able to tell the difference. If you are skiing three or four times a week, you'll feel these changes. The differences won't be like comparing a station wagon to an Indycar. It will be more like Camaro to Corvette. Both setups work, one will just work a bit better.

 

You've already recorded your current settings, so try moving things back to stock for a while and give yourself a chance to adjust your technique to the settings the ski is designed around. You can always fine tune it later, or even go back to what you have right now. My guess is that the stock settings will make it feel like an exciting new ski!

[webbdawg99]

My average is 2.5@38 (36 mph). My best is 5@38. Your assessment of my issues is spot on @SkiJay. I just can't believe I've been this far off! Well now that nationals is over, I'm going to put it back to factory and see what happens. The knowledge on this forum never ceases to amaze me!

 

Should I leave my bindings one hole back? At least initially?

[SkiJay]

With the tail-turning setup you've been using, I'm not surprised you're bindings got moved back. I'd try moving them up to the stock placement too just to give the rest of the factory settings a fair assessment. Binding placement is such an easy change that it would be the first thing you should try changing later.

 

You are obviously an advanced skier @webbdawg99 and have developed a skiing style that works with your current settings, so it will be interesting to hear your feedback on trying stock. It might mess you up a little at first. But I do believe that once you settle into the ski's new sweet spot, you'll find the ride more consistent and confidence inspiring. And who can't use more confidence?!

[ForrestGump]

While I do agree with @SkiJay to go back totally to stock......On the A1, I wouldn't be surprised if you ended up with the bindings back even with the stock fin settings.

[webbdawg99]

@ShaneH I'm hesitant to make so many big changes at once. Do you think it would be more prudent to adjust only the fin at this point or go ahead and do it all?

[ForrestGump]

It's after nationals. Go big or go home. :)

[webbdawg99]

Ha. I guess you're right. I should have a video camera out b/c I'm expecting some of my worst crashes EVER. Hopefully 4 steps back for 6 steps forward!

[MattP]

@webbdawg99 yes video is a must!

[ForrestGump]

I wouldn't expect crashes at all. You're a very good skier as it is. The way you have that ski trimmed now, it probably turns like a Strada as opposed to how it likes to turn, which is horizontal to the water from the preturn on. You should feel the tip engaged a LOT more. Once you make some passes, if you feel like you are falling back consistently on the boat in the gate glide, then start mvoing the bindings back until you feel too fast in the glide. Then move the bindings forward one hole. Honestly, I don't see many people playing with much of the fin settings on an A series ski.

[webbdawg99]

Can anyone take a pic of their A1 fin set to stock? I had to add a LOT of tip to achieve these numbers. Dropping the rear of the fin only added depth without much length. There are several more depth hash marks showing on the front of my fin than on the rear. This looks scary....pic to follow.

[webbdawg99]

Here is a pic of my fin after attempting to set it back to stock numbers. The marker line shows where it was. As you can see....LOTS of tip added....but nothing to the rear. Is this right??

[A_B]

Yep - you had a very short fin. You would need to pull it down quite a bit to get to stock.

 

I wouldn't worry so much as stock settings go, but WHAT is causing your misses? Tip rise, not enough angle off the ball, losing edge behind the boat, etc... Easier to go from where you are to where you want to be.. just sayin'

[Cam]

@webbdawg99, this may be a silly question but are you measuring your fin length with the caliper tips or the caliper jaws? as 6.840" is measured with tips, I get 6.715" if I measure the length of my fin with the jaws.

[webbdawg99]

@Cam Funny you mention that. I don't own any calipers. My ski partner took my ski with him the other night to set it to stock. He JUST emailed me 15 minutes ago and said he read on HO's website that you're supposed to measure with the tips. He had measured with the jaws. So now, he's moved it back some. It wasn't as off as we initially thought, but still need some adjustment. Now I'm not expecting to OTF tonight like I was 30 minutes ago. Nice catch.

[Ham_Wallace]

Webbdawg, You are a bit shallow for normal water temps. If you are skiing in hot water (like 95 degrees) you may need shallow to keep the skis' speed. As the water cools, you'll need to go to more stock settings.

[SkiJay]

Good catch @Cam. Along the same lines, @webbdawg99, ask your ski partner how he is measuring the distance from tail (DFT) too. Is he using the stem or the head of the caliper? If he is using the stem upright, it could be giving you the long DFT measurement that you have. I believe the stock HO numbers come from using the head of the calipers.

[webbdawg99]

Yea. Caught all the mistakes tonight before skiing fortunately. The fin was still off....just not nearly as bad as I thought. Ran some sweet passes tonight. Still need to get more comfortable with it. The onside turn keeps moving nicely without overturning. The offside is much more consistent. Ill just need to adjust my input into the offside turn to yield more optimum turns. I think it'll definitely prove to be a good move.

[SkiJay]

What did you end up doing for binding placement @webbdawg99? (No right or wrong here, just what works for you.)

[webbdawg99]

I left them one hole back. I really like the change so far. Turns feel much more consistent and predictable. Hoping this will help carry me into 39. However, I'm still concerned that this ski now has 4 full seasons on it.....should I not be?