Turn Island or No Turn Island

[Marco]

Our lake is only 2,000', so we put in offset turn islands at both ends. Skier drops as the boat exits the 55's. Skier gets up and goes around the island before entering the course. They increases set up time, eliminate rollers from when the boat is perpendicular to the course, and we get no rollers from prop wash when the boat starts up. We are a slalom only lake, so don't have some of the issues Eric referred to regarding jump, trick and barefooting.

 

Bottom line is if your lake is long enough to start with a straight shot into the course, don't put in islands. If it is too short, put in islands to get the extra set up time.

[Skoot1123]

@eleeski - believe it or not a double up will still be possible on the end with the island. That was one thing the lone wakeboarder in the family wanted!

[eleeski]

@Skoot1123 I have no doubt that wake magnification is possible with an island (in fact some islands can exacerbate a roller problem) but every double up I've done and pulled has put the skier on the inside of the turn (where the island would be) and rocketed them into converging wakes. Kirk hit his first front flip on a double up so we do it right a lot. Of course none of my lakes have islands. An island limited double up will require much more skill on the part of the driver and skier (as well as more time dedicated to the turn around).

 

QWERTY keyboards are the standard for typing. They were engineered to reduce typing speed for early typewriters. The Dvorak keyboard was engineered for optimal typing speeds (and every typing record is held by Dvorak typists). It is possible to communicate with a QWERTY keyboard - just stupid and inefficient. Tradition and an inability to consider changes has kept this horrible keyboard dominant. I see too many similarities in the closed minded love of these useless, limiting and dangerous turn islands.

 

Sorry if my posts seem a bit harsh. I'll probably never ski at Skoot's lake (with my mean posts he'll never invite me) and certainly won't have to work on the island (note: nobody EVER goes onto an island except to work on it - unless they crash into it). Tournaments work fine with islands. Coaching sessions usually involve so many new things that the lake layout is trivial. A small irritant in day to day training can be tolerated. But islands are as stupid as this keyboard I'm making tons of errors on. Lose the stinkin islands! I really should reprogram this keyboard for Dvorak, too.

 

Eric

[JDM]

I ski with Marco and can't imagine our lake without islands, being that it is short and at a fairly high elevation, the set up time is needed and they totally eliminate any wakes from going into the course. They do take maintenance, but nothing more than what goes into maintaining the entire shore, so not that big of a deal. The safety issue is really a non issue in my mind. You can navigate the course but can't figure out how to navigate around an island????? My 4 year old daughter does fine around the islands on a skimmer.

 

 

 

 

[scuppers]

Well, we beat the cover off this post - If Skoot1123 wants 'em - then he should have them. I'll ski there. Picnic's under the tree. Beautiful. Maybe if there is room you can pull us "no island" skiers up and streight in.

[The_MS]

We added rip rock only 1 time and it was easy. 24 inches of ice made it simple to drive out with a load of rock. We have not had to do any maint since and I dont see it happening in the future. Just dont build them out of dirt or just cover them in rock and you are fine.

[jedgell]

I actually learned something from Eric on this thread. Never knew anything about the Dvorak keyboard, interesting. I still prefer islands though, at least on shorter lakes.

[jimbrake]

I've always dreamed of having large enough islands (or at least one of them) to be able to have a golf green and a bunker or two to practice my short game, but then you'd have the added expense of a bridge to make it worthwhile. Looks like the folks at Santan could probably afford to have greens.

[Onside135]

Bump... @mt17085 Discussed at length in this thread...

[Chuck_Dickey]

I thought the guy at Imperial Lakes had a heart attack while going around the island? We have big islands at Cheyenne Lake and they are nice. Long set up, which is great. I hate short set-ups, you just get the water off your face and have to pull out for the gates. I'll take islands any time, extra maintenance or not.

[A_B]

Skoot, in my opinion it is a matter of length. My lake is 2,000 ft and no islands and no problems on 36mph, and that was with older generation boats. You can do a button hook turn at the ends and cancel out wakes and wash the shoreline down if that is a concern. I like to stop and gather my thoughts and catch my breath. I also ski regularly in a lake that is 2,400 with islands and we NEVER use them. We don't even use the full length to save on some gas. Two other lakes I ski in are around 1,800, one with and on without islands. At 34 mph, islands are not needed and not used in the one that has them. At 36 mph, the boat gets up to speed, but not a lot of room for settling in, without turn island. Again, without the island on the 1,800 foot lake, we sometimes would stop after the pre gates and do a button hook turn and that helped with a little more space at 36 mph.

 

If you are 2,000 foot or better, I wouldn't do the islands for all the reasons above. If you are shorter, I would question how wide you are at both ends to allow a button hook turn. For wakeboard and tricks, we turn them in about 140 ft wide at our narrower western end, I wouldn't consider islands for either. They can also get in the way if you are pulling tubers..

[Garn]

If I was building a lake, after reading all these posts, I'd be even more undecided or even confused. Half of you want the island, and half of you don't. And everyone is pretty passionate about their reasons why. For me, I'm just happy if I even get an opportunity to ski on a private lake.

[mwetskier]

one thing not mentioned but worth considering is islands at each end of a long skinny lake look cool. especially if they have vegitation on them.

[Joeprunc]

This thread is almost a year old @Skloot1123 how does the lake look? Did you go with two islands or one?

[The_MS]

I like the longer set up time that islands give you. Get the shorts straight, eyes cleared and settled in before the pull out. We are 2400 and have islands. It also makes it easier on the boat.

[eleeski]

Pasted from the other thread - just making all sure how I still feel about stinkin islands.

 

Turn islands SUCK!

 

Lakes without turn islands have been the site of many top tournaments, big performances and records. Why would you go to the extra expense and limitations on your lake to put one in?

 

"Bow rollers"? They are imaginary - or at least as small as the prop push rollers that are much closer and aimed at the course if you have islands.

 

My lakes have no islands and are relatively short (2000'). No problems with setup, rollers or skiability. One member always wanted to simulate islands so he ran exactly the same path as if I had islands in my lake. That worked too. I however prefer a straight shot in - I can concentrate my focus on the upcoming pass, not negotiating a spin around an island.

 

Islands interfere severely with any other use than pure high end slalom. As a tricker, the islands make the lake uncomfortably short for me as I must turn in front of them. Wakeboards go faster so the issue is more severe - plus there is no fun double up if you have to go around the island. Your flexibility pulling beginners through the turn is much more limited. Tubes, are you crazy?

 

Islands are rather dangerous. Lisa crashed into one - at Regionals! The aforementioned member of mine dug his own lake with his beloved islands. Those islands killed a skier (yes, dead human with the ensuing lawsuit and million dollar judgement against the lake owners). Those islands were as well designed as any islands I've skied behind with a wide comfortable boat path. Expensive for a couple pretty trees, some hard to maintain grass and being like every other slalom lake...

 

QWERTY keyboards are a horrible ergonomic tradition that the herd mentality refuses to change. (Note that all typing speed and accuracy records are set on Dvorak keyboards). Don't let the pop love of islands make you put a restrictive, expensive and dangerous obstacle in your lake.

 

Eric

[ForrestGump]

I've been drug narrow onto an island twice. Not fun.

[A_B]

Oh yea, the guy with islands and 2400 feet, a wally guest skier pulled out too wide while going around and ended up on the rocks, fortunately, only a broken hand and a lot of cuts and bruising. Could have broke his neck.

[The_MS]

@Shane. You didnt learn after the first time?

[mt17085]

Hey, thanks for sharing earlier discussion on this topic and for additional posts. Wow, lots to think about. Yes, I am confused. It's about half and half. Maybe we split the difference and put an island on one end? In any case, thank you for the feedback so far.

[Waternut]

Whatever you do...island or no island...just make sure there is ample room for the skier and boat. You have to worry about rollers with or without an island. The difference is how and where you worry about them.

 

You can blame islands all you want but let's not forget that the primary source of accidents is the boat driver or the skier isn't paying attention. Granted the consequences of not paying attention around an island are more severe, the chance of running the boat on shore, hitting the skier, or the skier hitting shore are still very real if your head isn't where it should be.

 

Bottom line is...we take part in a dangerous sport and if you're not focused on the water, you've got no business being there in the first place.

[Marco]

I'm more concerned about people hitting the outside shorline than the islands. Get too far outside the wakes in the turn and that is where you get whipped.

[mwetskier]

first turn island i ever went around was in a tournament and i drifted inside the wake and ended up coming to a sudden stop ankle deep in mud. only then did the boat crew clue me to stay right behind the boat.

[Skoot1123]

A little update on my situation - the Army corps has finally approved the lake, now just waiting on the state. We are actually putting in two islands. One at either end. If everything goes through I can't wait to see how it looks. I fully understand the issues that some have with islands. Part of the onus is on the skier and part needs to be the boat crew that informs new skiers of the proper path around the island. Space around the island is 100+ ft with steep sides on the turning end of the island so water depth/shore line won't vary a whole lot when lake gets low. If anyone is unsure of the path we will show them first. With it being a private lake (only two houses max) it will have limited exposure. Hope this helps anyone who wants to know. Feel free to PM me with any more questions.