New Nautique Senior Tour to Join the Big Dawg World Tour

[GregDavis]

This will add some more fun to Nautique Big Dawg World Tour

[GregDavis]

NEW NAUTIQUE SENIOR TOUR

 

TO JOIN THE NAUTIQUE BIG DAWG WORLD TOUR

 

 

 

ORLANDO, FLA (December 14, 2012) — Nautique announces the addition of a Nautique Senior Tour to be held in conjunction with the Nautique Big Dawg World Tour, presented by O’Brien.

 

 

 

The Nautique Senior Tour Finals will be based upon the results from the five Big Dawg stops. The Senior Tour Finals will consist of a sweet sixteen head-to-head format held in conjunction with the Nautique Big Dawg World Tour Finals at Okeeheelee Park in West Palm Beach, FL on August 16, 2013.

 

 

 

The two competitions will be working together to promote water skiing and to expand opportunities for skiers to participate in the head-to-head format. The Senior Tour will be pulled exclusively by the world record breaking Ski Nautique 200. Below are the five stops of the tour and how to qualify:

 

 

•San Bernardo, Chile: Feb 1-2, 2013 – 3rd and 4th place skiers from the Latin American Sr. Tour.

•Melbourne, Australia, Moomba Masters: March 6-11, 2013 - Top two Australian skiers.

•Canton, Mississippi: June 29-30, 2013 - Top 5 skiers that did not qualify for NBDWT.

•Baurech, France: July 6-7, 2013 – 4th and 5th place skiers from European NBDWT qualifier.

•Fenton, Michigan: July 13-14, 2013 - Top 5 skiers that did not qualify for NBDWT

 

 

 

“We are extremely excited to expand the Nautique Big Dawg World Tour,” stated Nautique’s President/CEO Bill Yeargin. “The Nautique Big Dawg is clearly the most prestigious 35 and older ski event in the world and we look forward to continuing to give skiers around the world an opportunity to participate in this exciting format,” Yeargin added.

 

For more information regarding official rules, how to qualify and more on the Nautique Big Dawg World Tour and the Senior Tour please visit http://nautiquebigdawg.com

 

Celebrating 88 years of excellence in the marine industry, Correct Craft is the producer of Nautique boats and the owner of Orlando Watersports Complex (through its subsidiary Aktion Parks). Correct Craft is known for delivering the highest quality product, innovative technology and exceptional customer service experiences. To get more information on the company or see the complete line of Nautique boats, visit www.nautique.com. To learn more about Orlando Watersports Complex visit www.orlandowatersports.com.

 

 

 

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[ForrestGump]

I don't get it. I thought the BD was the senior tour.

[Than_Bogan]

I is also confused.

[MattP]

@Greg Davis correct me if I am wrong about this. This is how I understand it.

 

The Big Dawg is a "Sr. Tour" and in the US/Cannada this is the only one, but there is also a Latin American www.latinseniortour.com and European Sr. tour out there and this is now bringing them more together. As the BD is more the elite side the Sr. Tour is just below that. We can usually guess the top 10 skiers in the BD from year to year, but there are many other guys who ski the BD stops for fun and a chance to compete with the best in the world at 34. The Sr. Tour is for them to compete in as well. Guys like lets say @OB who are right on the edge of making MM and honestly have no chance of running 41 anytime soon (sorry OB you are an old hack ;) ) can still compete and a high level in events with some great skiers, but still have a chance to win a title. Its like the Nationwide series in NASCAR. I could be totally wrong about this.

[ForrestGump]

Not really. If you're taking the top 5 who didn't make the cut at the us stops, then you're talking about guys who still have a legitimate chance of 4 or 5 at 39 or even into 41. At Cypress, I think the sweet 16 all ran into 41. I'd much rather see a nationwide type even for those into 38 and 39. This just doesn't make sense to me as it's being presented now.

[GregDavis]

 

 

 

I'll try to add some information that might help people understand the reasoning for adding another level to the 35 plus skiers.

 

 

When the Big Dawg Started, 2004, it was for 34 mph skiers who were over 35, had jobs, families, business responsibilities etc. Back then the 34 mph skiers were fragmented, you had, Mens 3, Mens 4, Master Mens and a few Mens 5 guys. The intent was to find out, just who was the best 34 mph skier. Lets put all these guys into the same lake, the same day, the same drivers and see who is the Big Dawg. These guys were not pros and basically, most of the guys never skied at the Pro Level. ( with a few exceptions ). The guys loved the competition. The first year, 2004, 2 1/2 at 39 won FIRST PLACE at the Big Dawg ( 2 AND 1/2 AT 39. ), Now, 2 and 1/2 at 39 will not even qualify you for the Big Dawg Sweet 16 at the Finals.

 

 

 

Things have changed, we now have x pros, coming in, We have the best Slalom Skier in the History of the Sport competing in the Nautique Big Dawg World Tour, and the other guys have stepped up their game, they would like nothing better than to knock Andy off. Therefore we have lost many of the skiers who are, kind of stuck at 2 or 3 at 39. ( Wish I was stuck at 2 at 39) These guys feel they are no longer competitive in the Big Dawg. What makes all these guys tick, is competition. But there must be some parity, or lets face it, it's not that much fun. By introducing the Nautique Sr. Tour, it allows the top 16 skiers, who didn't qualify for the Nautique Big Dawg World Tour Finals, to compete in a Head to Head format, where they will be going at it with guys of similar ability. Rest assured, the Head to Head competition in the Nautique Sr. Tour will be just as fearse as the Sweet 16 head to head in the Big Dawg Finals. scores will just be about 6 buoys less, but the competition will be just as intense.

 

 

 

In the past we had 50 skiers at the Finals, ( the best 34 mph skiers in the World), going at it, In 2013, it will be 56 of the best, 40 Big Dawg Skiers and 16 Nautique Sr. Tour Skiers.

 

 

Lets say, I'm a skier on the fence, usually in practice I can get a couple at 39, not always, and 38 is for sure not automatic, but if I'm skiing good, I can run 38. Now, do I go to the expense of traveling to Mississippi or Michigan for the Nautique Big Dawg Qualifier? One time in a class C tournament I ran 39. But I am stuck at 2 at 39 for the most part. Man, I have fun at the Big Dawg events, hanging out with all the guys, etc.etc, but I'm just not in the ball park, 2 at 39 isn't going to get the job done. Now if I ski out of my butt, and a personal best in a R tournament, I just might qualify for the Big Dawg, But, if not, and if I ski up to my potential, I can qualify for the Nautique Sr. Tour. I'll make the trip to Nationals, ski in my division, then ski in the Nautique Sr. Tour.

 

[GregDavis]

"@Greg Davis correct me if I am wrong about this. This is how I understand it.

 

The Big Dawg is a "Sr. Tour" and in the US/Cannada this is the only one, but there is also a Latin American www.latinseniortour.com and European Sr. tour out there and this is now bringing them more together. As the BD is more the elite side the Sr. Tour is just below that. We can usually guess the top 10 skiers in the BD from year to year, but there are many other guys who ski the BD stops for fun and a chance to compete with the best in the world at 34. The Sr. Tour is for them to compete in as well. Guys like lets say @OB who are right on the edge of making MM and honestly have no chance of running 41 anytime soon (sorry OB you are an old hack ;) ) can still compete and a high level in events with some great skiers, but still have a chance to win a title. Its like the Nationwide series in NASCAR. I could be totally wrong about this. "

 

 

YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. THANKS FOR HELPING EXPLAIN Greg

[Dirt]

I don't like the idea. A lot of folks complained about the Big Dawg taking away from Nationals. We already have MM and now we add more intermediate and redundant divisions?

If they do it, it should be the day after Nats IMO.

[Wish]

Hmmmm? Couple at 39...just might have to train a little harder this winter and visit Mississipi in June.

[T-fromTO]

I don't like it either. It is confusing and dilutes the integrity of what the Big Dawg series is. It is great the way it is although I can foresee a day where it may be necessary to add a 55 plus division as these guys age and new young guys keep coming in.

[DW]

Might be off on this, but I think maybe more than just one stop on the BD tour is arranged by a skier that fits perfectly in the new category and that might be a driving reason for it. The people that host the events do put a lot of effort in to it, so giving them a shot at the top may be one way of keeping / expanding the series to more stops over time. It is also a way of accomodating an aging population. . .

[skierjp]

Take away from the Nationals? If anything it added to the Nationals!! At any given time no matter what division was skiing there is hardly anyone watching other then family. At least the BD added excitement.

Ever since being involved with the BD I was always amazed with skiers that would travel long distances and pay entry fees knowing they never had a chance on winning or placing. I agree with Greg, this gives them a glimmer of hope and will be a benifit to the BD.

On another note, why would the Nationals schedule Open Men slalom to ski on Tuesday? If they are really interested in wanting people on the shore lines why wouldn't this be run on Saturday?

[Wish]

What @skierjp said. And even though there were huge rains right before the BD at the nationals, the crowd was large. Just hoping this yr the BD is the same and the open div has moved to being right around the BD times.

[The_MS]

What was the cutoff for the Canada event last year? I think a 2@39 type of skier would have qualified for the finals by skiing to potential. I attended most of the initial BDs from Ohio in 04 until 2008. I made the 16 at a few but would not even come close to making the cut in todays BD world. I am glad that my entry fees helped promote this idea over the years and it is awesome how this thing ended up. I am a better skier as a result of meeting and hanging out with everyone.

Back in Lago at the Nats, they ran the US Open on one of the lakes. I wonder why they don't bring in the Open skiers for a cash event during Nats.

[MattP]

@MS I have been thinking that they need to bring the US Open back to Nats. Why was it stopped previously?

[The_MS]

No sure, but it was great to have all the Open M/W there. They ran the open M/W skiers at Nats the day before and then the next day was the US open.

[bishop8950]

I think the intent is right.

 

I would rather do an experiment where the outcome is unclear than do nothing.

 

I understand the issues between keeping the difference between divisions clear.

 

At the BigDawg events, I was involved in many chats with guys like Chad Scott about how to keep the guys that are in the middle of the pack motivated to come to the Big Dawg events. I think there are about 25 guys of which you will see them in the sweet 16. There are 5-10 that are a lock, and the rest could be a dominate Dawg who had a bad day or guys like me who showed up in the H2H for the first time last year. What a blast! But what about the other guys who are awesome skiers with averages of deep 38 or shallow 39? Its a shame that they dont get to play in the H2H format which I think is the most exciting part of slalom from the skier and the spectators standpoint.

 

This looks like a legitimate shot to give those guys a chance and see how it goes. You could structure it different in ways but I dont have a better idea, do you? Lets see what happens and I bet OB represents!

 

As a slight aside, but related to H2H excitement, I will put on a 8 person H2H after our Class C tournament this summer just because its so much fun. I was talking to Seth at the BD Finals after we both went out in the first round and he said "the worst thing about loosing in the first round of the H2H is its so much fun you just want to keep going" and I couldn't agree more

[Horton]

I have a somewhat different take on this.

 

First of all I do not exactly follow the logic that initiated this whole thing but any time a water ski industry company wants to spend money to expand competitive events, we should jump up and down like school girls. If Nautique wants to promote themselves in this way I cannot see how it hurts anyone. As long as Nautique is spending their money so more skiers can have fun, party on.

 

If I understand this correctly, the Sr Tour does not open the fun up to that many more skiers but who cares. Any growth in the number of skier participating is good. To me this is just a marketing vehicle for Nautique and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

Nationals? There was a time in my life when Nationals was a big deal. I now think of it as dollars over fun. I have a snowballs chance in hell of winning so it is just a very expensive ski ride. The cost of travel and entry is too high for the one ski ride. If the Sr. Tour means someone can have more fun (skiing) for their travel dollar there is a greater chance I will go.

 

 

[GregDavis]

OBCrazy Baller

 

10:47AMFlag

 

 

 

@Greg Davis...what's the cut to make the NBDWT Championships at Okee during Nationals. I've surfed around but can't find the exact print. I though it was the Top 16 at each event but that adds up to more than 50 skiers. Elite 8 at each event is not enough.

 

 

 

Go to www.NautiqueBigDawg.com on top of page, click on Tour Stops, then click on rules and formats. It explains qualification procedure.

[Horton]

Some Open rated / Pro skier is reading this right now and muttering 4 letter words about the fact that a bunch of old guys skiing at girl speed are getting all the attention.

 

To that skier, let me say this. Men who ski at 34 mph buy the boats and skis. They do the things that keep the sport alive. If pro skiing wants more of the spotlight, it has to find ways to make money for the sponsors. The pro skiers must elevate their own profiles.

 

[bishop8950]

@Horton, I agree it only impacts a few skiers, but how many skiers could it affect? How many skiers around the world are there that want a chance to compete against other ~38 off skiers? At the Big Dawg events sometimes it feels like most of them are already there. I am sure many stay home because they know they dont stand a chance to make the cut to the H2H, so the Senior Tour may be a valued option. The experiment will be interesting, how many show up and how does it go?

 

I think of this as one step at a time. Maybe a venue enabling a 38off title will inspire more skiers to train and step up? Can it help grow the sport? I hope. Probably more than the Big Dawg as it is today with the top guys all averaging into 41. I think the Big Dawg is awesome as it is and I am thankful its available venue for me. But there must be a larger number of guys working on 35/38 that would find the Senior Tour more practical goal delivering a tangible bragging right.

 

As you say, take a 38 off skier who dont have a good chance of winning a National medal and return home after one round. Or, get 2 cracks at it with a good chance of making the H2H. Given a choice between the two I would take the Senior Tour option. Putting them together the same week is the best! I got to ski 5 tournament rounds my last trip to Okee.

[Horton]

@Dirt

It is not a new USAWS division. It is not part of the official Nationals. It is simply a new custom event. It is about fun.

 

If it were a new division I would be TOTALLY against it. I do not agree with MM being at Regionals or Nationals but no one seems to agree.

[Horton]

@bishop8950 In the end it is all about creative thinking to allow more skiers to have some fun. That is a hard thing to do in this sport. I do not think we want to go the way of INT with straight ability based divisions. That encourages the sandbaggers and cheaters. The idea of that just makes me angry.

[6balls]

I could see this as pretty motivational. Now to get my 38's to automatic!(yah right...10%'er to 80%er in a single season highly unlikely...but a little extra motivation never hurts). I also agree with @horton re: nats being an expensive set and that any additional exposure for skiing is good.

[klindy]

I'm still thinking this through but I agree with @Horton that any time a sponsor wants to expand something to promote the sport I'm all for it. The way I count it this adds 16 more skiers to the mix (50 at the BD finals and 16 at the Sr Tour). It would be interesting if the St tour finals went first and the winner of the H2H had an automatic entry to the sweet 16 in the BD!

 

Slightly off topic but it would be REALLY cool if the head to head (at least the final 4 or 8) was run side by side on the main lake simultaneously! Maybe put the sweet 16 on the main lake then run the final 4 under the lights. Either way putting two skiers on the same like at the same time is a whole new strategic game.

[bishop8950]

@horton, I know your position is strong, and this thread is not about age vs ability (directly anyway) so I am afraid to ask, but I have a question: If you did away with MM and went all aged based for Nats, other than clarity, how did that improve the event for the M3 guys? Now instead of just the "sandbaggers" you have all the 35-45 top guys joining you. Its clear, its predictable before the event, its still fair, but otherwise how is it better? I am not saying its not, I just forgot your rationale.

 

I like MM as the top 34mph division, but I now have the Big Dawg for that just like the top 36mph guys can ski Pro Events. So I am not passionate about keeping MM if I was asked to vote, but thats only because we have the Big Dawg.

[Horton]

@bishop8950 Simple. When I was a M1 skier and the Open guys were at the next level, I realized that a National title in M1 would only mean that I was the best of the guys that were not good enough to ski Open. I admit, I wish I had a National gold but a M1 Gold would still only be "Best of the Rest".

 

I think it is the same thing with MM at Nationals. My placement in M3 depends on who moves up to MM - not how I stack up against the best M3 in the country.

 

Outside of Regionals and Nationals I think MM is the best idea since sliced bread. I am bummed I am still about 1/2 a ball from qualifying.

[bishop8950]

@horton, got it. Only alternative is the M3 ranking list, agree its not the same as a one round who does best when it matters format.

 

You can find that 1/2 ball, and you will. But, there is another way. When I got my first Open rating it happend in the winter months after I stopped skiing and when enough of the scores fell off the ranking list and the qualifying level stooped to my level...fingers crossed : -)

[Dirt]

I was not saying I dont like The Big Dawg at Nats. I enjoyed it. I heard a lot of complaints. It should be at The end along with The US Open IMO.

Why not have a Little Dawg 34 mph head to head Boys 3 and Chic Dawg HTH during nats also? Where does it end?

Everyone gets a ribbon?

I'm not trying to upset anyone, just offering food for thought.

[skierjp]

I think if you qualify for MM you should have to ski that division the rest of the year. I'm not sure I know of any other sport that lets the athlete jump from division to division. If the cut to MM is 3 at 39 and you choose to let go at 2 1/2 to keep from skiing MM then so be it.

[The_MS]

I wish I was back in M3. Going into last year I was about 104.3 and sitting about 13 or 14 in M4.

If I was still at 104.3, I would be sitting at 32 in M4 and 19 in M3.

M4 is a MM division now.

[Dirt]

Great work @OB You have done an excellent job promoting water skiing. I dont know of anyone who has spent more time, effort and money than you.

[MattP]

@Horton that .5 buoy either makes you the best of the rest or worst of the best.

[Horton]

@MattP

I would be happy to be worst of best

[ForrestGump]

Hell, I'd be happy to be best of the worst! ;)

 

[Drago]

I don't get it. Also, US Open should be required element in Nationals bid. I think BD grew out of it's britches. Used to be 4 stops in the US. Now it's Record, cost too much, and is all over the world. Not the local-ish high comp fun it used to be. Just my humble opinion. I guess I spent all that money and used up all that time chasing the dream at tour stops, before I got married and had a family.

[Horton]

@Drago I see your point but I can't really get upset any time any company is putting $ into water ski events. I wish the events fit into what I personally want or you personally want but as long as there is something going on I am thankful.

 

Maybe it is time for another sponsor to start a competing tour that is all North America and is more down home. We should thank Nautique and if you want something different lets get planning. (when I say "we" I mean you not me)

[Jody_Seal]

I am confused! Can someone splain to me how this works? Now their is going to be another championship grouping from the same pool of skiers? I am confused!

Also seems if they want to get the best 55K skiers from the USA they might want to hold a couple more events right here in the USA!

[Kelvin]

With more than 1 or 2 events in the US its hard to make it work for the local sponsors. The tournaments don't fill up.

[jdarwin]

I see your point but I can't really get upset any time any company is putting $ into water ski events @Horton - Do you know how much additional dollars Correct Craft is putting into the BD as a result of this new division? They no longer fund the payouts at the prelims. How much of the payout at the finals is funded by Correct Craft? IMO, this is simply a response to the complaint that the BD is turning into a "Senior PGA" type of event that is dominated (or soon will be) by former professionals. Personally, it matters little to me as I have no dog in the fight. But if the BD wants to continue to draw interest from the weekend warriors, it will have to adopt a bracket format - otherwise, it will become a 41-off show by the same group of skiers that will become routine after a while. The success of the BD was built on the identity of the participants - the best of the local skiers competing against one another in a national format that was not a one-and-done like Nationals. Skiers in general could relate to and identify with the participants. I don't believe that is the case today.

[GregDavis]

 

OB, crazy baller, Below post from you, is exactly what we are trying to accomplish.

 

" What's the big deal in allowing all of the High End guys ski in a Big Dawg Championship and the better part of the middle of the road guys ski in a Senior Championship while they are all in one place. One airfare, one hotel, one rental car, and one week of skiing. Sounds like a no brainer from a planning perspective"

 

Thanks for your support Greg

[Jody_Seal]

Ok now I (we if so implied) understand!

[skiray]

We attended a BD event this year. It was a great time. Mainly due to the skiers attitudes and the format.

 

We go to the Masters every year to see the pros.

 

To me they are completely different events. Just my two cents, but I would rather have seen the addition of a Sr event based on age if they feel like its needed. A runner up Sr event does not make sense.

 

As far as ex-pros are concerned, add a BD Pro division. Anyone that has ever had a top 15 open rating. (or something like that) To me that makes sense.

[Bulldog]

@OB Great Idea!!!

[schroed]

Very interesting thread. I'm a MM rated skier who consistantly runs 38 off but I don't seem to get too far at 39 in tournaments. I feel like this "senior division" or whatever you call it is targeted at skiers like me. Personally, I don't like it. I went to the Big Dawg in Abbotsford last year for fun and the hope of qualifying for the finals. After I skied bad in the first round, I thought I was out of it and called my wife to tell her I wasn't going to go to Florida for nats or the finals. However, most of the other skiers didn't do too well in the rough conditions either. I ended up skiing pretty well in the second round and made the finals. I then had to then call my wife back and tell her I was going to spend the money to go to Florida. I went to Florida and had a good time.

 

My point is this, if I didn't qualify for the Big Dawg finals last year, but there was some other division targeted at 2 or 3 at 39 skiers like me to ski in that I did qualify for, I wouldn't have gone to Florida. I think my menatality is a bit like Hortons on the age divisions at nationals. I don't want to be "best of the rest". I want to work hard and see how I stack up against the best skiers. Further, I wouldn't want to ski in a different division or event than some of my friends like Kevin Bishop, Matt Brown, and Greg Badal. Even though I'd probably lose, I'd rather ski against them.

 

Perhaps a better solution would be to just expand the head to head finals to 32 skiers and hold it over 2 days. The best skiers would probably get an easy ride through the first bracket and skiers like me might get a chance to go head to head against Mapple, Lapoint, or some other ex pro. That would be cool!

[Razorskier1]

BD probably is the most impactful event that has come to slalom in the last 10 years. If I had the scores, I'd probably go ski it because it looks like a lot of fun AND there is so much I could learn. This new iteration will probably get more people excited to go and do it. Nothing wrong with that in my mind. Go @OB! I'll be rooting for you on the webcast!

[GregDavis]

Love you guys, this is what makes it fun. Different takes on things.

 

Not many people have heard of Mark Brandt. Mid West skier. Mark ran 39 at the Big Dawg Finals, ( 1 or 1 1/2 at 41 ) in 2010 ithink it was. I think it was a personal best in a Record.

 

In 2011 We did a poll, "who would win Big Dawg Finals". people voted, and we posted the top 20. Well the guy who won, wasn't even in the 20 of possible winners. Kyle Tate, was Big Dawg Champion.

 

The BD motivates some skiers to push, to reach, to beleive they can up their game. Hey, it's about competition, if a skier goes to a BD qualifier, he might qualify for BD finals, if not, at least he has a shot. Then if he doens't make the BD Finals, it's possible, he gets a shot at The Nautique Sr. Tour, skiing in a Head to head format, at the Nationals. One air ticket, one hotel, one rent a car several great days of skiing. He can also ski in his division at Nationals. i.e. could ski 5 times, rather than make trip to Nationals and ski one time.

[clemsondave]

I'd like to see a BD tournament after Nationals that qualifies you for the next year. I wanted to attend one this year, but the only choice was in June. That's barely when our tournament season starts here. I'd rather compete at the end of the year when I'm skiing more to my ability. I might consider the one in July this year, but I'd still like to see one in August/September.

 

Can they call this new thing something other than "Senior Tour?" I've been called a lot of things, but 'Senior' isn't one of them!

[JoeMac]

I think that the big reason they do it during Nationals and not after is to get people to watch it. It is a huge draw because most of the participants at nationals are there. Not only that but most of us who participate, have kids who start school the next week. I'm excited that they are having another bracket for the Big Dawg. I won't mind being in the 2nd tier skiers this year. I agree that the open would be more popular if it was at Nationals. Might be as big as The Big Dawg.