Baller WBLskier Posted January 10, 2013 Baller Share Posted January 10, 2013 I was at the boat show last year and talking with a malibu rep (a well known skier in florida with a ski school) who said that malibu's still come stock with a basic rpm lock speed control system. He said that while Zero off is great, and obviously required if you are skiing tournaments at a high level, the basic rpm lock works pretty darn well if you are a decent course skier not competing all that much. I realize perfect pass cruise is intended for recreational purposes only, but I am wondering how it could compare to having a less than great driver. the cost is a lot less and if it got me pretty close to real times I would be okay with it. I typically ski into 32 off at 36 mph and will run 35 off at 34 a handful of times each summer. Never anything much beyond that yet. I can't justfiy spending the $ to get PP stargazer right now unless I find one that is used for a mechanical throttle. Any comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Ed_Obermeier Posted January 11, 2013 Baller Share Posted January 11, 2013 IMO at the level you're skiing at you're ultimately going to regret cheaping out on a make-do speed control system that may or may not give you a consistant pull every pass. Save your $$$ and at a minimum find a good used PP Classic system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MattP Posted January 11, 2013 Baller Share Posted January 11, 2013 I agree with ED. If you are skiing 32@36 you should be using a doped control for slalom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller GOODESkier Posted January 11, 2013 Baller Share Posted January 11, 2013 I upgraded to Stargazer and Zbox. I have some classic PP parts if you are interested. I will sell at 1/2 price from new. All were in a 2003 Nautique 196. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller WBLskier Posted January 11, 2013 Author Baller Share Posted January 11, 2013 Goode skier. What parts do you have? I need it for a 98 Malibu echelon (mechanical throttle). Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted January 11, 2013 Baller Share Posted January 11, 2013 Are you skiing tournaments? I'm right around where you are on the course, and used the std cruise in my '08 196. It was fine for my needs, as I don't compete. Now we have ZO in the 200, and I don't really notice that much of a difference. I realize there is a big difference in reality, but I guess I've never been sure if it's the boat or the cruise system in my case. In short, if you're just skiing for fun, how much is it worth $$ to you that times are spot on? I had Digi Pro in my '06 196, and SG in my '07 as well, and they all seemed similar to me, FWIW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller WBLskier Posted January 11, 2013 Author Baller Share Posted January 11, 2013 I'm not currently skiing tourneys. I just want something that will help some I'd the drivers in our group pull me more consistently. Sounds like that might at least help. How close would you estimate the times to be. Some of our drivers I am sure have me off by at least a half mile an hour so I could at least get close I'd be happy. Any ideas on where a used unit could be found. What happens to boats that get totaled for insurance? Seems like there would be a market for parts from those boats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller eleeski Posted January 11, 2013 Baller Share Posted January 11, 2013 RPM based speed control is nearly worthless. I'd rather have an awake hand driver. When driving by hand you select a speed by wake characteristics or a speedometer reading. Listen to the RPMs and maintain RPM. Easy to do by ear. If something changes (like the wake, boat attitude or speedometer reading) the hand driver resets the RPM target. RPM mode just accepts the change and gives you a crappy run. You need the paddlewheel or the accelerometers of ZO to do better than hand driving. Even pure GPS is too slow reacting to give a quality ride. As your skills improve, you will load the boat significantly. These loads may be quickly applied and of irregular duration. Power requirements will vary significantly. Skiing RPM only will hold back your learning. Pulling a kid on a kneeboard around the lake just to get familiar with being on the water might not load things too much but real world variables like winds and weeds will also add significant variable loads. That tailwind might add a couple of mph and really scare the kid. Slalom buoy count is sensitive to a few hundredths of a second. Trick speed is right in the middle of the planing transition where small load changes make huge changes in speed and wake. RPM control is just not sensitive enough. PP pricing retail is quite reasonable. Paddlewheel speed mode is good enough to get you to where the ZO letter becomes relevant. Unless there is a current through your course - then you need GPS. Don't scrimp here - buy cheap beer until you have paid off the 3 event system. Your eventual skill set will reward that choice. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BraceMaker Posted January 11, 2013 Baller Share Posted January 11, 2013 I've used a cruise unit - the Malibu Rep isn't wrong - If all you do is slalom, and if you have a good open water location with long set ups, It doesn't hold lower speeds for tricking/wakeboarding/tubing from what I experienced, as these events often occur where the boat has a mind to slip onto/off plane and vary widely in speed with no RPM shift. It also doesn't tell you your speed, which can be an issue as our pitots can be clogged, or the gauges miscalibrated. The Cruise Unit would be nicely paired with the Perfect Pass Precision Star GPS speedo, you could then set your speed accurately, hold it, and perhaps snap some course times with a watch. But otherwise, it is a good way not to get into a fight with the driver over fluctuating speeds when slaloming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller WBLskier Posted January 11, 2013 Author Baller Share Posted January 11, 2013 Could it be upgraded to stargazer at some point or are they completely different parts? I get that it isn't perfect. If I could drive myself I wouldn't need it. When my wife drives me I could be anywhere from 32 to 37 (yes she is still learning). I would get to ski more often if she could just have to steer for the most part. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller eleeski Posted January 11, 2013 Baller Share Posted January 11, 2013 Your learning curve as a developing skier could get you appreciating perfect times within a couple weeks on the water. Get the full system right off the bat. Call PP. They are great people. They have always been nice and fair to me - even though I am vocal about my love for ZO (and not Stargazer). They will give you all the info you need to get a system that will work and grow for you. I've always bought direct from them. I've installed several PP Classic paddlewheel systems and repaired or upgraded a few as well. The installation is straightforward and they have worked well out of the box. PP has always sent me exactly the right parts. I haven't heard anything bad about the company. There are cheap used parts out there so you might be able to save some money if you are really savvy and good mechanically. But the mix and match is a bit complicated. If you have a repair guy or dealer nearby, they might be able to set you up as well. There are a lot of out of date computers (I think you need a new computer module for the Stargazer upgrade - delay the Stargazer and save some bucks). A repair guy could have many older parts - enough to build a working system for you. The old systems were magic and worked quite well - and still will. As far as your wife driving, PP Classic saved more skier marriages than any other item. Accept tolerances of .10 instead of .01 and she'll do fine. You can set up things for her so all she needs to do is steer (and read times at the end of the lake - too easy). Good drivers can reliably get tolerances of .04 which is acceptable for most skiers you will pull. When you get to where .01 is important, you'll need a new boat (and ski and lake). Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ DW Posted January 12, 2013 Baller_ Share Posted January 12, 2013 @Goodeskier: What do you have available, I am interested in building up a PP Classic (or Stargazer) system on a mechanical boat. Thx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller thager Posted January 12, 2013 Baller Share Posted January 12, 2013 @DW Saw some on evil pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller GOODESkier Posted January 16, 2013 Baller Share Posted January 16, 2013 I have a 6.4 Module, Single Line Display, Magnet Pick up. All came out of a 2003 Ski Nautique Mechanical Drive. I will sell each part for 50% off what Perfect Pass sells them for. Great deal. Everything works. Let me know if anyone is interested. On Topic: I started skiing tournaments this year. I have PP Stargazer with the ZBox set up. My training partner is my wife, 1 year old daughter, 3 year old son.......... We ski every day. I can't imagine life without speed control. You just have to decide what level you need/want...... I know guys that have really dialed in their PP RPM set ups with magnets on their courses and the boat pulls great. Vice versa, I know guys with ZO that don't even know how to use them and haven't mapped courses, and their pull is brutal...... So, you can get what you need for your application. I needed tournament worthy easy set up for a mechanical control boat. My option was PP Stargazer, ZBox, and go SKIING! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BraceMaker Posted January 16, 2013 Baller Share Posted January 16, 2013 Anyone try Jager's Thrust Control? http://www.jagersport.com/product_info.php?cPath=91&products_id=327 Seems to be another Z-Box alternative - don't know anything about it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller WBLskier Posted January 16, 2013 Author Baller Share Posted January 16, 2013 Goode skier. Do you know if that system would work on a 1998 malibu? Do you know what else I'd need to buy to have a complete system? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Waternut Posted January 17, 2013 Baller Share Posted January 17, 2013 I seriously considered cheaping out with the RPM cruise system. I ultimately didn't go that route for one very important reason. My theory is, if someone is struggling to maintain speed and direction while hand driving, they probably aren't going to be very good at manually operating the RPM cruise's set point. Since I typically go out with a bunch of people who can drive a boat fine but aren't skilled drivers, I chose Stargazer so I can set the cruise where I want and all they have to do is push the throttle forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Mateo_Vargas Posted January 20, 2013 Baller Share Posted January 20, 2013 Here is a non-DBW system for sale. Sounds like the guy might take a lower offer. http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/boa/3551101901.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ RichardDoane Posted January 23, 2013 Baller_ Share Posted January 23, 2013 back in the PP days, the best deals for new PP stuff were on skiertoskier.com and they were always great to deal with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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