What's the best way to progress in the course?

[aswinter05]

My wife and I have big hopes this ski season. Hoping to really get a grasp on the course.

 

My question is what's the best way to continuously challenge ourselves in the course as we improve?

 

Right now I'm at 30mph and my wife is at 27mph. (15-off'ers).

 

Should we stay at 15-off and slowly increase the boat speed as we get better? (before shortening the line)

 

OR...

 

Should we keep the same speed and keep shortening the line? (and then increase speed later)

 

I'm new to this, so all input is appreciated. Thanks ballers

[aswinter05]

Obviously, nailing our form and fundamentals will be most important for us. But I have a feeling I won't be staying at 30mph and 15-off all summer long.

[RichardDoane]

increase speed to max, then shorten, get your current pass where you can run it 4 times in a row, then you know you're ready to move up, and remember to keep it fun

[crashman]

amen on keeping it fun. I found it helpful to put the PP in practice mode and increase by 1 mph or even 0.5 mph at a time. I learned when tired instead of pushing it I would just back it down to an easier speed and run through them 6 in a row. Instead of going for PB every time have times when you're just running buoys for fun.

[jipster43]

You'll be able to progress quite a ways without good form. Don't be sucked into this trap. Work on your form above all else and you will ultimately improve faster. Getting stacked is the key. Ski in tournaments for some free coaching and good times!

[aswinter05]

Glad I asked. Thanks fellas!

[h2odawg79]

There is some very Good practice to be found in slower speeds. (I do it all the time and many, many Pro's have and do as training drills.) But, this is optimally done with a wider (larger surface area) Ski. i.e. 30-32mph on a Radar Theory can be a Huge benefit to learning technique AND Shorter line. 1st priority is always in creating a sound foundation technically. But WTS, one can ski 15 off til the Cows come Home and it will never totally prepare them for -22 and especially have little use in preparing for -28. But, -22 or 28 at max speed would just be overwhelming and trying it at max. speed would only serve to practice Scrapping survival mode.

 

With a Theory, one can ski @ 30mph and shorten line to begin to get a real feel of the greatly increased need for a proper Stacked position, the increased crosscourse speed and Real edge changes which allows one to begin to learn the need for Handle Control and Outbound direction in the pre-Turn... Most of which never really happens at -15.

 

The Basics must 1st be studied, followed and practiced ALWAYS. Shorter line will come in time. Just don't get caught in the Rut of endlessly running 15off, believing that once you've "perfected" it, you can just move seamlessly on to -22 and -28. We all start over again at the next length, b/c it is so different. So, always be ready to dabble with that next length and when your feeling good take a crack or two at next shorter length as well.

 

Shadowing can be a HUGE asset to getting the feel and timing down. Make sure to work on proper width while shadowing. You can Shadow 1-3-5 and turn 2-4-6. You can Shadow 1-2-3-4-5 and turn 6 then Shadow 1-2-3-4 and turn 5 and 6 and then slowly back your way out of the Course adding in the preceding Buoy as you are able.

 

Good Luck to you in the Course and in finding the right constructive people & advice, to keep you progressing at your real potential.

[aswinter05]

@h2odawg79 , thanks for the input. Could you please explain what "shadowing" is?

[Horton]

@aswinter05 The one thing you can do to get more balls faster is to ski with better skiers. This may mean driving across town or it may mean a trip to a ski school. I can promise you that if you are the not skiing with a someone who knows more than you it is extra hard to get better. You will get a lot of info here but this site can not replace a good ski partner.

[h2odawg79]

In brief, "Shadowing" is basically going out to Buoy width and Turning 0-5' before the Buoy. This allows the skier to get the full benefit of the Timing and Rythmn of the Course but, w/o the Physical and Mental distraction of the Buoys, while trying to maintain the same distance before each Buoy throughout the Course.

 

DISCLAIMER! Some Skiers on the Forum Boards, Criticize the use of Shadowing and rightfully so. As, they do not really understand the the proper use or the Benefits. Nor have they any personal experience with it's use. I think it's awesome, when one knows how to properly employ it. (It's also Good enuf for the likes of Big Dawg Ben Favret and others...)

 

You are Not limited to "Only going out to Buoy Width" you can work on increasing your width. (Far beyond Buoy width as well)

 

Instead of waistng time/energy skiing directly behind the Boat after you've missed a Buoy, you can also get the full Course benefit of practice by Shadowing the remaining Buoys. Etc, Etc...

[aswinter05]

@Horton , We just joined a club for the upcoming season. Plenty of members are way above our skill level (in fact, probably all of them). Also, we are going to ski school in late May for a week. We're hoping to always be around better skiers this summer.

[Horton]

@aswinter05 from my point of view you are exactly on the right path.

[Razorskier1]

Agreed. A lot of us hacked our way from where you are to -32 or -35 before we realized that if we skied the right way, none of this would be so danged hard! I made more progress post-coaching with less pain than I made in all the years before. And many of those early years I ate a lot of slack hits and took many "yard sale" falls to get there. Focus on learning the right things from a good coach, then just work on those and the speed and line lengths will follow.

[luckyone]

Horton ,sometimes its not all about ball count.u sound like a snob.I love to ski with any friendly baller,even if they cant run a pass.ASwinter u will someday reach your wall and u could be best in your boat ,if that is what u want.

[dave_n]

The heading at the top of the page says ' What's the best way to progress in the course? '

 

NOT ' what's the best way to have a fun day at the lake '

 

We all like to enjoy time at the lake with any other skiers, maybe spend time in the boat helping others. But, the fastest way to 'progress in the course' is to spend time with skiers better than you. Ask questions if you don't understand something, but mainly watch and listen. Pro coaching is money well spent also.

 

Often a better skier can explain to you in ten minutes what it took them three years to work out the hard way. There's no substitute for time on the water, but there's a big difference between time spent improving, verses time wasted making the same old mistakes over and over until they become bad habits. ( been there, done that )

 

The three most important things to concentrate on are :

1- Stack

2- Stack

3- Stack

Working on anything else until you can ski the course in a stacked position is time you could have spent improving your body position. I wish I had listened to better skiers when they were telling me that 6 years ago.

[Horton]

@luckyone

What @dave_n said

[thager]

Ditto!! I hate it when I agree with Horton!!!

[aswinter05]

@dave_n exactly! I'm looking to progress. If i can accomplish that there's no doubt having fun will follow suit. In fact, I've never been on the water and not had fun. I love the sport too much to forget about enjoying it.

 

Stacked position is what i worked on all last season. It's what i need to work on again this summer. I find it very difficult to master but I'm starting to feel it each time I'm on the water. It takes less and less effort each set, so i know I'm making progress in my form.

 

Thanks for the input. I think our Ski Club is having Seth Stisher out this summer. It's something they've done the past year or so. Looking forward to possibly being coached by him. My wife and i will be around better skiers all summer long.

[dave_n]

@aswinter05

seems to me that you have a sound plan going there. Have fun.

[aswinter05]

So, does everyone pretty much agree that I should be increasing speed before shortening the line?

 

Or should I try a combo of both? Dabble at different speeds every time I shorten the rope?

 

Or is there no precise method? Should I just go with whatever works best for me?

[Horton]

@aswinter05

 

I do not think there is a hard and fast rule. 15 off at 34 mph is a hard breakthrough point. The physics suck but you really have to go through it.

 

You can try 22 and if you like it better => do it. You may find the wakes to be way better or way worse at 22 depending on your boat. I would not go shorter than 22 until you own your max speed. The logical ladder really is raise speed to max and then shorten.

 

For fun you should try 32 or shorter but I do not think that is a good long term plan if you want a higher score. (take video)

[thager]

@ Horton Didn't you lose a bet or something @ 15off???

Brahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!

[Brady]

@luckyone Isn't ball count the way to have fun in regards to water skiing?

[dave_n]

Fun? definitely, also sense of achievement when you increase your PB by one or two balls takes some beating.

[Horton]

@dave_n if I EVER move my PB again it will be one insane freak'n party.

[dave_n]

@Horton the better you get, the fewer the PBs and the greater the achievement I guess.

It's easier for skiers like me to PB because we've only skied a few years. All I'd have to do to PB is remember to stand up straight for 17 seconds.

[h2odawg79]

IMHO, Ball count is "a" way to have Fun in the Course. But, certainly not "The" way. Thank God for that!

 

Ball Count is a tangible measurement and be can be a Dbl. edged Sword. Any one who has hung around the Course at all, has witnessed 1st hand how the Ball count can inspire great emotional outbursts. Sometimes Happy, sometimes not so much!

 

I've seen many a Slalom nut (including myself) act like a fricken Child b/c they were having a bad set or day in the Course. But, the worse part of this is how selfish and unfriendly one can seem in the eyes of others. This type of behavior isn't the best way to inspire others and Grow the Sport!

 

But, I guess fun, is fun. However it is achieved...

[Horton]

http://media.tumblr.com/fe497dd337d9af8479bb6398b9565d16/tumblr_inline_mg6n5ltl6X1rxe4lt.gif

[6balls]

Yikes its the panda!

One of @aswinter05's questions regards rope length vs speed. I have seen A LOT of 36 mph skiers who get some at 28 or 32 off move to 34 mph, become students of the game and be skiers poking into or thru 38. Fire these same guys back up to 36 mph and they can out-ski everything they ever did at 36 mph because they learned the short-line game at 34 mph.

Perhaps at some levels the speed is a bigger deal to conquer first. At other levels perhaps it's more about rope length.

I sometimes wonder if I would have been a better M2 skier if I trained at 34 mph, learned better technique at shorter lines given some time to think in the course and then applied the lessons back to 36 mph.

Any thoughts regarding what is best for @aswinter05? Any thoughts for what is best for an up and coming M1 or M2 skier?

[MattP]

I have always slowed the boat down to learn the next line length, but this was after I reached my max speed@15off. I usually slow down between 35&36 and bump up the speed after a couple completed passes. This has worked pretty well for me.

[Skoot1123]

I'll offer my suggestions based on what I learned last summer: I had a goal of becoming more consistant in the course. To me that was improving. One day I was extremely frustrated with my lack of rounding the buoys like I knew I could. I then proceeded to start at 22 off and 32 mph, then 34 mph, and then kept on going from there. All told ran 6 passes at 22 off and was really able to get in a groove. The next step would be to take it to the next line length, probably at a few mph slower just so you don't feel rushed at that shorter line length.

[Razorskier1]

At shorter lines (in my experience -35 and beyond), I have found slowing the boat down helps me make progress. Thing is, if you are a 34.2mph skier, slowing down more than about 0.5mph is too much. You just don't experience the same dynamics on the water. For a 36mph skier, I would always slow it down, maybe even down to 34.2 to start, then bump it up 0.5 at a time until you get back to full speed. Just easier on the body. Ask Mapple -- 36mph day after day after day can start to hurt!