Side Force Enhancer - SFE

[Horton]

[A_B]

I was waiting for Willie to say "I'll be back" or something Arnold like...

Maybe it was the glasses and he is like 2 feet taller than you.

 

Can you show a close up yet?

[skibug]

So, Hydrodynamics...what about it? Lift, drag, stability, etc.? How important is the placement along the length of the ski; meaning toe of the front foot versus toe of the back foot?

[Horton]

@skibug

placement seems super critical right to left. You tune the amount of effect by moving the SFE closer or further from the side to the ski. The range is 1,2, and 3 centimeter. I used the 2 yesterday and it felt great until 38 off. I only shortened to 38 once so.. I think I need go to 1cm for 38off. Not sure.

[gmut]

@Horton so are you going to continue using this side enhancer on all of the skis that you test? $289 is a fairly steep price to pay for this new technology. Was the angle out of the bouy a fairly dramatic change?

[Horton]

@gmut

I am not sure how I am going to review skis and use the SFE. If I get ahead of ski reviews I will for sure ride the SFE a bunch.

 

As for angle, Hell yes. On early and easy passes the SFE is funky as it makes the ski want to arc in early but once I got to 32 and 35 it was really cool. What I really felt was all past the apex and at that point the ski turns a lot faster and further.

[Wish]

@Horton not sure if this is the final product but gives a look at them if it is. Are they supposed to be exactly parallel to the side of the ski? And has the option of placing it on one side of the ski (perhaps off side) been tried? What are they made out of?

[DW]

So what exactly is the SFE? A fin like device that sticks in the water, a device that moves the binding from side to side or stiffens the side flex? I couldn't tell anything from the video. Sounds pretty interesting.

[Wish]

May give some insite with the photos

 

http://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/6637/side-force-enhancer

[Horton]

Take a look at https://raptorwaterski.com/

 

The one I used yesterday was smaller than the yellow one on the Raptor front page

 

@DW it changes water flow -on the side of your ski - between your feet. Make the ski turn a tighter radius and exit with more angle.

[DW]

@JTH: thanks, yes, it functions much like the front fin on a hydroplane. There are numerous tweaks that could be done to tune that device.

[mwetskier]

to me it looks likes a drag brake that will lever the ski around an be most effective from the apex of turn thru the hook up so back or front position will decide what part of the ski digs in and levers the ski around. way forward might make the ski turn finish abrupt maybe to much? back to far an the ski might not want to turn? maybe put in different places on each side?

[Edbrazil]

When Chuck Stearns was inducted into the Hall of Fame in 1982, he showed a similar idea that he had, but was like a little winglet sticking out of the ski on each side around the binding area. Don't know of anyone adopting it. Could have made for a "Filet O'skier" on a fall if you got hit with the side of the ski.

[Jordan]

Seems expensive for what it is.

 

My guess is that it causes more tip to be engaged when the ski is on edge and leaves the ski unaffected during the pulling phase.

 

Interesting that you could tune the ski for less tip (aiding acceleration) than normal, and still have enough tip in the turn to make a tight radius.

 

Cool

[jayski]

So when you have no inserts in your ski then what? It seems a little thick too which may be an issue for dual lock users...?

[Razorskier1]

Interesting concept, but I can't even keep fin and binding adjustments in order. The last thing I need is to start adding wings to the sides of my ski!

[liquid d]

dft .74 fin depth 2.505 using 9 degrees wing 28 and 3/4 to back heel of front foot, slightly canted open for left foot forward, SFE at 1.2 cm and front of rear foot 23.25 inch from tail, using a spacer to lift tail of sfe...still haven't figured out how to put my calipers to it.

We're all completely nuts.

[matthewbrown]

@liquidd ....one shot of jack and all the numbers come together nicely.

 

[Chef23]

289 plus 10 for shipping seems very steep but I don't know what goes into making them.

[ripa38]

Tried the SFE and then watched (while videoing) Horton. Pretty much felt the way Horton described it. He did better with it than me. I guess that is what happens when you ride ten different ski s a year. Horton was off by a factor of 10. The SFE is set up at 1, 2, or 3 mm from the side wall of the ski. Some people testing it are running different numbers on offside than onside.

[bishop8950]

Ok, I love to feel new things and would give this a try. Skeptic though, agree it looks like nothing but drag. Also, while I hate to be the downer, is anyone thinking about what it might be like to hook a shin or wrist on this in a fall? Ouch.

[ripa38]

I suppose you could tangle with it during an out of control fall, crazier things happen behind the boat all the time. The good news is that all the edges are rounded and it only reaches down the side to the just above the top bevel. I am sure you could some how do a filet of shin, but it does not look too menacing in person.

 

[Wish]

So what differance does the adjustments do to the attitude/performance of the ski?. 1 vs 3mm.

[SkiJay]

It's an interesting concept and I can see how it works, but "getting more angle" is a problem that doesn't exist. Any modern ski can already be tuned to deliver more angle off the ball than anyone can handle. In fact my coachs are constantly trying to get me to exit the ball with less angle so I can load the line more progressively. The only benefit I can see is the ability to affect one side more than the other, which again, I'd rather address by improving my technique.

[SkiJay]

On the other hand, Christmas is coming, and what could be better for the tweeker who has everything?

[MattP]

After looking at their website and the shopping cart. It seems that you get 1 of these for the $289? or is it 2 and things just are not clear?

[9400]

Who's replacing the buoys that get destroyed by those things?

[Horton]

@MattP they are a set

@9400 they are not sharp and you are Not supposed to run the balls over

[9400]

Sometimes sheet happens

[Razorskier1]

I'm sure that just like ventrals, the SFE has the potential to improve a given skiers best efforts, and for some people the effort and tweaking will be well worth it. Honestly, I'm just not enough of a tweaker on equipment to go there. If the new M6.0 can't get me through the next line length, then it just wasn't meant to be.

[Ed_Johnson]

Has anyone adapted a SFE to a ski with Dual Lock and Powershells ??

[Mortyski]

@horton. John have you ever tried the SFE at wide ride speeds with the oversized skis for the slower speed divisions. @ab always says my skis need mooring lights and their own slip at the dock they are so big (69 or 71 inch) The big skis don't turn fast and that is a frustration when you ski on them Seems to me if you could get the surface area support from a big ski that could turn on a dime there would be a big market ... Or at least a market for big people on big skis for the SFE

 

Thanks

Murray

[liquid d]

I hate it when people puncture bouys.

[teammalibu]

$289.00 are you kidding me. They better be made out of solid gold. I guess I will whip up a pair in the shop in about 15 minutes and see if the damn things work!

[Ed_Johnson]

Mike,

My thoughts exactly..I've made thin fins and ventrals before, this doesn't look to hard...Just have to figure out the correct size...Seems they have 3 sizes, which one works best.

[Wish]

@Ed_Johnson its not that hard at all. Made one last night. 20mn or so. Sure lots of R&D went onto their's and mine is as close to the measurements as I could get off photos but it did work. I consider working as... it didn't kill me. In NO way do I recommend doing this...I am my own crash test dummy. I was interested as to what it would do on my off side only...so it's a single just on the left side. Took a brief set with it. But fighting upper respiratory and have 0 energy. I do believe there is something to it. It did what I heard or read so far. It did put the ski on a much higher edge and having it only on one side, it was easily noticed. It did turn quicker and set a better angle into 246 (135 off side). It did NOT seem to act as a break. No idea why any of that is so. However, if I tried to wait on the bouy and stop moving the ski, it did fall behind me. Minor skier adjustment though. It did not hinder the on side turn or any other part of the course for that matter. Skied couple 28s and 32s. Liked it. Could not get though 2 attempts at 35 but had no energy and really don't think the thing was a factor as much as not being able to breath and perhaps some tentitiveness. Will leave it on for a couple more sets and see at shorter lines. Interesting. Fun to mess with.

[Ed_Johnson]

@Wish..Could you post a picture of what you came up with...I still have to figure how to do it with Dual-Lock on the ski...Thanks for the info.

[BG1]

I have a question for anyone that might know. Do they recommend these for one side only? I made one for the left side of my ski (right foot forward), played around a couple passes, and then took a stab at the gates/one ball with about 60% effort/lean. At edge change the ski went out and away so quick I almost did a left side body slam 40 feet from the ball. I’m sure I would have gone down hard at full speed. Does putting them on both sides stop this action?

[mwetskier]

even with dual lock cant you still use the factory insert in the ski to screw the sfe in place? maybe cut out the dual lock just where the thing would sit?

[Wish]

@Ed_Johnson. Photo not the greatest. @BG1. Mine is one sided. It did do what you describe but not to that degree. Felt more like it was suposed to do that and was very manageable and a plus at 28 and 32. 35 and 38 will be the deciding lines for me whether it stays on or not. Guessing home built ones are gonna be different from each other. Without exact measurements who knows what the differences would be. Considering what micro adjustments of a fin can do to a skis attitude, I'm sure small variations with these in shape and size can make a big difference. Thinking that's the reason for the price $. Maybe lot's of R&D costs as well as patent costs. Mine seems on the small side and I only ran it 1mm out from edge of ski. Considering it had 0 affect on my onside, it's hard to believe that having 2 would stop what happened to you.

[ToddL]

I would think that the angle of the fin would matter... It may be difficult to keep it positioned such that it is truly parallel to the center line of the ski. Depth and distance would have an impact, too... Just too many variables for me.

[Wish]

@ToddL totally agree. If mine works well, it will just be pure luck that I hit it right. I have it parallel to the side of the ski by using a 1mm spacer then tighten down. That part was easy. Beyond that it's all educated guess based on many photos. I wont be spending any time messing with other sizes or modifying this one. If it works...great. If not...I still learned something.

[ToddL]

@Wish - parallel to the side of the ski may not be exactly parallel to the center line of the ski - not that I have any freaking clue which matters...

[Wish]

@ToddL well I basically assumed, since their website pictured spacers at 1, 2, and 3mm, that they are used between the blade and ski so the blade is parallel to the side of the ski.

[Wish]

Well, had a chance to ski with my one sided home brew SFE today with good results. I ran up the line to 35 off and ran that line 4 times. I believe I will leave it on. It seems to finish the ski better and quicker setting me up earlier for 246. Still scratching my head how that is possible. Weird.

[disland]

post some photos

[Wish]

Home brew SFE

[Ed_Johnson]

@Wish.....What did you line the front of the SFE with, Rear heal front boot? Front of rear boot?

[Wish]

With all the pics he has on line and the ones I posted of just the SEFs alone, you can tell that the front of the blade is exactly or close to being centered between the insert holes for the front and back binding mounts. This certainly could have changed over their development but it is were it seems to be in the latest photos. Tried it at 38. Did not like it but it was the first crack at 38 since Oct and I'm still a bit under the weather. Haven't given my body the rest it needs coming off the upper respiratory crap. Hate when the wife is right (ok, dont "hate" but she was right on the rest thing)

[Wish]

Here's that pic. Looks centered to me.