looking for a new ski boat - recommendations?

[torontoboater]

looking again for a new ski boat - recommendations?

I was looking a couple of years ago but for family reasons I had to put that on hold. I am now looking again and looking for recommendations. I have a family of 5 with 3 young children and space is important. I am also an avid slalom skier. I need a direct drive, open bow with a good slalom wake at slow speeds (30mph), but also some room to move on the boat. My budget is up to $20k. Obviously I am also concerned about reliability - especially given that I will have 3 young kids on board. I have found 2 possible options. One is a 1998 MC prostar 205, with about 640 hours. The other is a 2000 MC prostar 195 with about 785 hours. The open bow on the 205 is much larger than the 195 but I understand the ski wake is better on the 195. Please let me know your thoughts on these, and other options you would recommend. What about the number of hours? Given my concerns about reliability, is 600-800 (and 15 years old) perhaps too much and should I be looking for something newer? Thanks very much.

[6balls]

perhaps at that price range the best may be a malibu sunsetter. the 205 prob ok too. Sounds like you need that kind of space.

[rodltg2]

Don't put too much stock into hours. I would rather have a well maintened high hour boat than a low hour neglected boat. A lot of boat owners maintain their boat based on hours alone , so low hour boats do not see annual routine maintenence.

 

Based on your search a 15 y/o boat with 700 hours would have been used on average 46 hrs a year. A well minted engine should go what , 2500 hours , so based on its use you have 39 years to go before TBO.

 

I would look at the boats condition over all , not just hours alone.

 

With that said , look at 97 Snob , sunsetter Lxi , sport nautique , mc 205.

[The_MS]

Good slalom wake at slow speed with an open bow did not happen until 2012 with the Malibu TXI. The best thing you will find for 20K is a SNOB.

[ral]

As @rodltg2 mentions, low hours are overrated v/s good maintenance. 900 hours is nothing on a well cared engine. A well maintained boat almost always means a careful user, that would proper maintenance and drive carefully (e.g. not backing up violently to stop the boat...). @OB would be the perfect example, a 1000 hour boat from him would be something I would get without thinking.

[MISkier]

I had the 2000 Prostar 205 (based on the 1995-1997 190 hull - a good design). Good wake, great room, excellent tracking. But, the 22 off bump was a bit much - though not too hard. Shorter lines were great and 15 off wasn't bad. I still like the 205 and would buy it again as an all-around family boat. But, if you are somewhat serious about slalom and are choosing between the two, I would get the 195. I believe the 2000 195 was also based on the 1995-1997 190 hull, not the later 1998-2000 190 hull. It is the same length as the 190, not stretched like the 205. Therefore, the 195 has the better hull design and better wake than the 205. I would avoid anything MC after 1997, other than the 205, 195,Skier 19, and SportStar, which still used the 1995-1997 hull.

 

I sold the 205 and bought a 2009 Response LX (step over open bow). Much, much better wake and the hull is basically unchanged since 1998 on those - a very good design. Many RLX can be had within your budget and substantially newer than 1998 or 2000.

 

Don't know the older Ski Nautique characteristics or market, but I sure like their 200 (which you will not touch for 20K).

 

I would not worry about 600 or 700 hours. I ski behind boats with double that and they perform well. Ask questions about the maintenance habits of the owner, any overheating history, clarity of the lake where used, saltwater use, etc. Above all, drive it and really assess the power, smoothness, and quietness of the engine/drivetrain.

 

Older open bow boats tend to make you choose between bow size and wake quality. The newer, and more expensive, boats reduced/eliminated that compromise.

[skihart]

I agree with @MISkier. For that budget I would look at a response lx. My buddy has a 99 and it skis well.

[skihart]

Actually....if you jump in your car right now, you will be able to buy this! This is really what you want! I would drive really fast though......I will go quick.......

http://nh.craigslist.org/boa/3907848860.html

[skihart]

@torontoboater ............ummmmm. Better call and leave a deposit.....great deal! Go go go.....

[MISkier]

That SNOB does look like a great deal. I've never skied behind that model. When you do check it out, see if you can get a pull behind it as well. Actually, that goes for any boat you consider....a test drive and a test ski, if you can get it.

[Waternut]

I'll throw in an alternative to seeking out best wake with a roomy bow. If you find a nice boat that you like with a roomy bow don't turn your nose up at it if it isn't notorious for having the best wake.

 

The wake on my boat (86 Dixie super skier with direct drive) was considered crappy by most good slalom skiers I knew. I was happy with it until I rode behind a 99 closed bow nautique which many people love for slalom skiing. Once I rode that awesome wake, I was bummed with my own wake that I went on the hunt for different boats until I realized it just wasn't practical. I ended up settling on a $500 14"x18" Bennett hydraulic wakeplate after a lot of research. Now I tune the wake to the line length I feel like skiing and it's an awesome wake now. Basic tools and a few small holes in your hull and you can make a crappy or mediocre wake, a really nice wake.

[crashman]

The Moomba Outback has a very roomy bow. I've never skied one but the people who have them really seem to like it. I agree the boat's history means everything. You want to find an OCD slalom nut who is selling his boat only because he wants a zero off boat. If he won't let you help wipe it down because you're not doing it correctly that's a good sign.

[ToddF]

I have an outback and love it, wakes are good does everything.

Can't go wrong with an outback. Mostly it comes down to brand preference

[escmanaze]

I have a 97 SNOB and love it...although I don't often put 5 or more people in it. My buddy has a 96 PS205 and it really is a game of tradeoffs. I cross my wake (at long line lengths and slow speeds, I wouldn't know anything about shortline stuff) much easier than his, but his certainly holds more people with more ease. His boat also has a tower, which gets quite a bit of stuff up and out of the boat, but then also adds weight to the slalom wake.

[usaski1]

another vote for Outback.. I have the zbox in mine, and cant tell a speed difference between that and ZO. Not as good as 2012 Malibu, but not bad, especially in the higher 20's. Its worth the money, and you can get one used for $20.

 

[6balls]

@skihart holy crap. @torontoboater if you can deal with a small open bow for family purposes that boat is a killer slalom boat at an excellent price given hours.

[skihart]

@6balls @torontoboater. I am not sure he is on it....lol. Oh we'll it's a great buy for somebody ......

[torontoboater]

Thanks for all the helpful replies. Yes skihart that is a nice boat indeed. Don't think I'm able to make it down to Rochester for the time being though and won't be able to import it.

[andjules]

@torontoboater there are a lot of good comments above. My 2¢:

- as above, don't worry about hours, within reason.

- Outback is nice for the money & I've spent a lot of time in one w two adults & 3-4 kids. Good below 32 mph

- 96 and later MC 205 is a nice big boat with high freeboard, but more wakeboard than slalom. Fine @ 34 but not so nice @ 30mph.

- 92-95 MC 205 is a better compromise if you're putting slalom first.

- That 2000 195 you found is a pretty nice deal for Toronto, where boat prices tend to be inflated, as I'm sure you know. Love the walkway seat, losing seating to the walkway is a drag in all but the biggest bowriders, which is why I also love...

- Malibu Response LX with the walkover (and has a trunk from 1999 and later), or even a Malibu Sportster LX (seating for kids will be fine, but it's low on storage... fine if you're at a cottage and skiing from a dock, not so great if you're out on the lake for a day).

- Malibu Sunsetter LXI (not LX) is awesome if you can find one. The LX is not so nice below 32mph, if that's important.

 

Where do you ski? I'm in Toronto & mostly cottage in Huntsville, but always looking for new ski opportunities.

And if you get adventurous and look at importing, I can give you some advice on it - I imported & flipped boats in 2011 & 2012.

[Wayne]

Some more on the Malibu Sunsetter. It's not widely know but in 2002 the Sunsetter and Sunsetter LXI could be built with the same running surface. I had such a animal for a while. It was a good boat, had plenty of freeboard and a touch more space than my Response LXI. The Sunsetter had a slightly smaller trunk than the Sunsetter LXI but they skied the same.

 

If you go the Malibu route look at themalibucrew.com. They have a resources tab that gives all the hull options for every year and model. For the non Response and Non Sportster models look for hulls classified with the word "diamond". Most of these will ski pretty well but give you added space.

[torontoboater]

Great advice from all, thanks. I agree the Sunsetters would be a good fit but they are hard to find in my area.

[XR6Hurricane]

I don't know about the slightly newer Sunsetters but I was behind a '94 Sunsetter a couple of times. I'd only been skiing a couple of years at the time but I thought the wake was terrible at 30 mph long line. Worse than the other direct drive boats I've been behind for sure.

[andjules]

Yes, they completely changed the sunsetters to a modern hull (SV23) in 1995, I believe.

[DW]

At that budget level one of the best resources would be the older Waterski Magazine annual ski boat review. The mid 90's edition offered excellent boat reviews.

[Tom351]

At that budget level one of the best resources would be the older Waterski Magazine annual ski boat review. The mid 90's edition offered excellent boat reviews.

 

Many of these can be found online at google books- link to 1996 below...just search for "waterski mag" and "january" (since they came out at beginning of year) or "boat buyers guide":

http://books.google.com/books?id=oic2AQAAMAAJ&lpg=PA202&dq=waterski%20%20mag%20january%201996&pg=PA1#v=onepage&q=waterski%20%20mag%20january%201996&f=false

 

[XR6Hurricane]

@andjules I thought the SV23 came out in '94, but you're probably right. I was behind a Response or Echelon (can't remember) that was new enough to have the SV23 and it was definitely better. I definitely would not buy a Malibu older than that.

[andjules]

@XR6Hurricane I think they introduced the SV23 via the Echelon in 93, and rolled it out to the Sunsetter in 95. Don't quote me on that ;-)

[Edmund]

Just one more thought...I have a 1998 SNOB and also love it. Between the motor box and the driver's & observer's seats it is a little crowded, but as to the wake and reliability, it is second to none. There is quite a bit of storage under the open bow area since the open bow does not go all of the way to the floor; it is sort of a bath tub open bow and you get there by stepping over the dash through the windshield access. The kids (and some adults) will enjoy lounging around up there. That 2000 SNOB referenced above seems to be a great deal. Good luck with whatever you decide.

[crashman]

@Tom351 that might be the best thing I learn today!

[torontoboater]

Thanks for all the replies - I am going to do a water test on the 1998 Pro Star 205. 640 hours. I am going to do a water test tomorrow. The current owner has owned it for three years and does all his own maintenance. What questions do you suggest I ask the owner about the boat and maintenance? I want to make sure I ask the right questions to get a proper sense of whether this boat will be reliable and was well taken care of. Reliability is of paramount importance to me.

 

here is the link to the boat - what are your thoughts?

 

http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-boats-watercraft-powerboats-motorboats-1998-Master-Craft-PS205-W0QQAdIdZ502754421

 

Many thanks

 

[escmanaze]

That boat looks pretty nice. It seems a bit too expensive, but if you folks are saying that there is a premium for that part of the country then I will trust you. Here is one warning I would have though. My buddy's 97 PS205 had a single axle trailer like that. It worked great for trips under an hour. Once you started taking it on road trips of 2 hours or more, it was notorious for flat tires. Just too much weight for that one little axle. My buddy has since done some serious work to his trailer to make it into a double axle instead and no more flat tire problems. I would be curious to know if I'm the only one on here with such an experience.

[escmanaze]

And yes that SNOB on the craigslist ad above looks like quite the awesome deal. Like I said, I love my SNOB. Really, you could throw a tower on it (I'll be murdered on this forum for saying that) and get all the boards out of the boat and onto the tower, and then it would me much more roomy inside for people once the sticks are all out of the boat. Even with a tower, it will offer a much nicer ski wake than the 205 with no tower. Like I said, it really is in large part just a tradeoff between space and wake.

[MISkier]

Ask about:

 

1. Oil change frequency

2. Impeller change frequency or any impeller failure

3. Fuel filter change frequency and/or fuel pump replacement

4. Any overheating history or manifold/riser replacement

5. Steering cable replacement

6. Clarity of water where used - if it is a mud bog, that can affect engine cooling by clogging it

7. Winterization procedure and whether the system is filled with antifreeze (helps prevent corrosion and mixes with any leftover water for protection) or just drained dry.

 

Inspect it, drive it, listen to it, ski it for at least 20 minutes. Check the oil after running it a while for any milky coloring of water and oil mixing. Watch the gauges (oil pressure, temperature, battery) for good readings. The 350 engines ran at about 160 degrees, unless the thermostat has been changed. There should be no alarms when running. The engine should sound smooth and not labored under load. Shaft vibration should be minimal.

[torontoboater]

Thanks for all of the very helpful information. I did the water test and have decided to pass on this boat (1998 MC 205). Some issues with the boat, and I was also a little disapointed with the size of the wake at slow speed (30) and long line length (15 off). Will keep looking. I loved the interior space in the 205 though. In terms of other open bow (not step-over) models, what would you reccomend?

 

What are your thoughts on the ski wakes of the boats below, at long line and slow speeds, and how do they compare to the 1998 MC 205?

1. Nautique 206?

2. Malibu Sunsetter LXI

3. Malibu Response LXI

4. MC 195 - I gather this has a better wake than the 205 but is limited in terms of interior space (and can I consider an x-5 - will it ski as well as the MC 195 with the ballast empty?)

5. MC 197 - very good at faster speeds but how is the wake at slow speeds and long line lengths?

 

Thanks.

[torontoboater]

I'd also appreciate any comments on the Tige 20i and the Moomba Outback - how do these compare to the other boats above in terms of slalom wake at slow speeds and build quality. Obviously, these are less expensive that the MC, Malibu and Nautiques listed.

 

Many thanks.

[MISkier]

Skip the MC 197 for slalom at longer line lengths and/or slower speeds. Only consider it for 28 off and shorter and 34 mph and higher.

 

The MC 195 should be good.

 

X5 (ballast empty) would be good from a hull perspective, but I worry about the weight of the tower on the slalom wake. It seems to change the dynamics of the boat to have a tower. Same hull as the 195. I would suspect your interior space will be about the same as in the 195.

 

Others can comment on the Nautique, Malibu Sunsetter LXI, and Malibu Response LXI, especially regarding your 30 mph speed. That speed is a challenge for any boat to produce a great wake while still producing a great wake at the higher speeds in conjunction with a trick wake at lower speeds, etc. The Malibu Diamond SV23 hull design is the one you want. Make sure the boats you look at are the correct models and years for that design. I don't have that chart available, but someone else might. The "Diamond" is important. The regular SV23 hull is not what you want for slalom. The "Cut Diamond" hull is on the newer boats and should be OK as well.

 

I still recommend a Malibu Response LX (1999 and up), but it is the step-over open bow.

[usaski1]

@Torontoboater, the Outback has a good ski wake... its not the best, but its way better than any MC in the last decade. Especially at the slower speeds (mid to high 20's) Plus, mine has been real reliable. A good compromise between cost and value.. I can tell a difference between the OB, and a recent response, but my ball count is the same.

[andjules]

My guess is you'll do a bit better (than the Outback) with the Malibu LXI's (response/sunsetter) at 30mph, but overall I was pretty surprised by the Outback. Interior finish is sometimes a little cheap (certainly pre-2005-ish) but overall a good wake, and with a little ballast in the back and the wakeplate up, it can also be a good intermediate wakeboard boat.

[Jordan]

@andjules

My kids ski 15 off at 30 mph and do fine behind my friend's MC X7 (same as 197 with tower)

 

Re: Tige 20i... the original hull had an amazing wake. Later, they removed the hook on the hull and added a moveable wake plate. This one wasn't that good, the wake is very hard; much worse than the other models you have mentioned.

[andjules]

Of course @torontoboater, being from Toronto/Ontario, you could just get an old J-Craft. The slalom wake is flatter @ 22mph than most inboards at @ 36mph.

http://www.trentsevernantiqueboats.com/Photos/boats2/jcraft1.jpg

[Jordan]

Ahhhh,,,A J-Craft

 

Spent a lot of time behind those when I was a "ute"

[escmanaze]

For What it's worth, I also heavily considered the 20i and the outback in my hunting. I also at one point even considered the Centurion open bow sport, I think it was. What I found was this: For the price range and/or the year range I was in, I was finding a lot of moombas, centurions, and Tiges that were missing one or two of my two key features. The two key features were fuel injection on the motor and no wood in the build. In the late 90's, MC, CC, and Bu had all completely standardized in this direction, so by about 98, I think, you know that any boat you find from the big 3 will have no wood, and EFI. However, I found a very large number of boats from moomba, centurion, and tige from the late 90's and even early 2000's that did not have EFI, or were still built with wood stringers. I had just decided that if I was going to pay mid-teens, I was definitely walking away with a boat that had EFI and no wood. One more thing to think about.

[thager]

So what do we do when the foam in our fiberglass stringers disintegrates? Just asking? My friend had wood in his old Hydrodyne dry rot but the thing was so well built it had no effect. As far as fuel injection goes it is nice but a pain in the backside to work with when it goes bad. I can rebuild a carb in my sleep. I have owned both and aside from starting I cannot tell the difference at ski speed except that ZO needs the proper EFI to function. .

[torontoboater]

Thanks for all the replies. Lots of info about the Malibus and other ones mentioned. Didn't read much about the Nautique 206 - how is the wake at slow speeds and long line lengths? How does it compare in this respect with the 1998 MC 2005 I just tried? Thanks

[thager]

The 206 skis like a 196 but wake is a bit firmer. Tracks very well. In my opinion wake is much better than a MC 205.

[schafer]

i would agree with @thager i have a 196 and my ski buddy has a 206. the 196 for an older boat was ahead of its time. and the 206 is relatively small just harder. especially at -15 -22 below 36 mph. but still very skiable. and my buddies that ski the course at 30 and 32 still run it at long line.

[Monkstr6100]

Gekko gtr or true open bow with the gekko gto. Exact same hulls either way. I have a gekko gtr, and can't say enough how much I love it. Awesome slalom wakes, all fiberglass, and amazing tracking. Looked for months to find my exact boat but very happy I held out for the exact right one for my family. Just my 2 cents.

[inland]

@torontoboater....did you get a boat yet? I was in your position a few years ago. I had not skied in 20 years and decided I needed a direct drive boat with room for a family, high freeboard, etc. To make a really long story short, I was out looking for a Malibu Sunsetter LXI and could not find one within my budget at the time. I settled for a 1997 Sunsetter LX. It is on the SV23 hull, which as stated before was rolled out around 1993 on the Echelon. It's a great boat, pretty versatile, but does have drawbacks.

 

As stated before, the wake below 32 leaves somethings to be desired. That said though, in my experience, at 30 it's not bad at -15. Much better at -22. Then it feels much different at 32 and it's for the better. At 34, even better yet. I regularly ski a 2001 Sportster LX, likely to small for you, and a 1993 MC PS 205. The -15 at 30 and 32 is decent on the 205. The -22 bump is a bit of a bummer though.

 

The above said, I love my boat, but am looking at upgrading to a more slalom friendly tractor.

 

I hope you found what you need.

[KcSwerver]

SNOB would be your best bet for best ski wake with open bow. First gen pro star 205 would be my second choice. Our 2nd generation 205 is almost a wakeboard boat compared to our 95 190 but that is just what comes with the territory. Open bow (usually) means worse wake for slalom.

[harrison]

We have a 1999 sport Nautique. It's a 20.5ft open bow. Same hull design as 1999 bubble back ski Nautique. We use it on a public lake and it rides well. My neighbor has a Nautique 206, but prefers skiing behind mine. You can buy for under $20000. Ours has a GT40 PCM that is a great engine. Plus the boat looks great on the water. If you go on line it's the cover boat on the 1999 Nautique brochure. It's much less sensitive to weight distribution then the 206 as well.