Where does shortline start?

[Skoot1123]

Where does shortline start? Does it begin at 28 off? Or is it actually 35 off? I'm sure there are different schools of thought, and what your reasons are for choosing them. So, what is YOUR shortline, and why?

 

My opinion is -32 off. (maybe that's because I have only ran it three times) At this stage you can control your position going into/out of the turn, have developed good body position across the wakes, and are working on the finer parts of gates and handle control. Consistancy at this line length may be something your working on, but you are very comfortable at 22 off, and reasonably comfortable at 28 off.

 

For these reasons I don't classify myself as a shortline skier because I don't ski at 32 off very frequently. I run a majority of my 22's and am able to get one 28 per time out on the lake (usually). In short, it's my consistancy that holds me back - I have been battling that for the past 7 years. It obviously will take more water time to get better.

 

Here's to hoping EVERYONE gets more water time!

[alex38]

When I started to run 15 off at 36 mph in practice I started to cut to 22 off, at one point after some consistency my coach was pulling rope into 22 and said "welcome to shortline skiing"

[Horton]

sorry but 38 is the answer. that is the point where the handle does not reach the ball

[ForrestGump]

38 off

[alex38]

Good point on 38 off

[Skoot1123]

@alex38 - And I have a LOOOONG ways to go.

[markchilcutt]

39 off!!

[skibug]

So, what qualifies you as a shortline skier? Any score at 38; or, do you have to complete the pass? Or, somewhere inbetween?

[Horton]

any score

[Brady]

@Horton thanks for depressing the hell out of me on a beautiful short monday morning. I will stay on BoS for a short stay and then I am going to go get a quick bite to eat with my short friend. This post is going to be short as well, because looking at me I am far tooooo long in about every area! Damn, I have a Long long long way to go to be short!!!

[skibug]

I've been short all my life (5'7"); but, it just happened again last Friday when I PPB'd 1@38' and backed it up with another 1@38'....one of the few times I can brag about being short and be revered.....or at least somewhat respected.

[jwr]

I guess I'm old school, because I've always felt short line begins when you shorten the line. 15 off. It just doesn't get fun until 38 off.

[Dirt]

I believe shortline starts at 22 off. That is where you have made a huge achievement. You have completed your pass at maximum speed and earned the right to shorten the rope.

You begin to feel the ski get real angle and get a whip from the boat.

 

 

[Than_Bogan]

I'm with @Dirt. If you shorten it, that's shortline. (Hey, I'm simple minded.)

 

Then I use the term "deep shortline" to refer to the same thing @Horton does: Shortening to not reaching the buoy.

 

Then 41' and beyond are a new category that I sometimes call "insane shortline."

[Ed_Johnson]

Depends who you ask....For Nate, 43 off.

 

For me, I would have to say 35 off..The reason being that 28 and 32 ski very similar...There is a distinct difference between 32 and 35.

 

I know for me it is easiest to ski 28 and 32, skiing Arcs...I try not to do that....At 35 I must ski angles, or I have no chance at 38.

 

35 is also one of the best lines to practice "Short Line Technique," where you can make a mistake and recover...38, not so much.

[A_B]

When I started skiing it was on a 75' rope. When I ran that and shortened to 15 off, I was told that i was now a shortline skier by my partners who had skied the course for many years. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Modern skiing basically threw away the 15 foot section, but in its purest form, most everyone now starts at short line. I think super short line starts at 38 because of what @horton said.

 

[MISkier]

Shortline = 22 off

Advanced Shortline = 32 off

Super Shortline = 38 off

Extreme Shortline = 41 off

[Than_Bogan]

@MISkier That makes a lot of sense. I nominate that for Official Ball of Spray Shortline Nomenclature!

[Lieutenant Dan]

Insane Shortline = 43 off

[skibug]

Chuck Norris shortline = 47' off

[The_MS]

15 off is the first cut from long line.

[Wish]

Was actually asked that this morning by the guy I was skiing with. My answer to him was:

 

Long line 0 off all speeds through 22 off class speed

Short line 28 through 35

Deep short line 38-41

 

There is no term to describe the insanity that resides at 43 and beyond

[Waternut]

My understanding was very close to @wish and he beat me to it. I classify long line as full length and 15 off. Shortline as 22-35 and deep shortline as 38 and up. Not that I really care whether I'm classified as shortline, noob, or expert... I just have a hard time grasping the concept that skiing shortline isn't skiing a line shorter than normal/max length but rather skiing at or near pro level.

[Brady]

I feel much better after reading all these posts since hortons! Thanks guys!!!! Now I plan on being a short line skier next year.....instead of like never!!!!

[mwetskier]

we complain that slalom skiing is dying from general lack of public interest and we discuss ways to grow the sport. why then would we want to take a time honored word like shortline and try to make it even more elitist than it already is? shortline begins when you make the line shorter than standard - leave the snobbery for golf and tennis.

[alex38]

@MIskier I like the sound of super shortline

[Broussard]

@skibug Chuck Norris skis at 70' off

[E_T]

@broussard E_T skies at 60 off...

[ntx]

So, if it starts at the first line length shorter than normal, does everyone outside of the USA all ski short line? The USA is the ONLY place that still has a 75 foot (23M) line length for slalom. My guess is it has to be -22 off or more. -15 at max speed is not short line

[Brady]

@mwetskier Best post of the year!!! Can I give you an AMEN

[MISkier]

@alex38, I borrowed that term from @AB in the post preceding mine.

 

For others wondering about 15 off, I selected 22 off as the first shortline designation due to the change in the physics/geometry of the boat and angle experienced at 22 off. It just seems to be more of a difference than 15 off is from long line (which I have never seen anyone ski).

 

Coincidentally, our Ability Series definitions here in Michigan somewhat coincided with what I listed. I checked them after I posted, just to see what they thought. We were similar, though not exact. Here they are:

 

Maximum Speed Group:

A1 Entry Level - 4 passes total buoy count at any speed


A2 .25 @ 26 MPH (43 kph) to 6 @ 28 MPH (46 kph)


A3 .25 @ 30 MPH (49 kph) to 6 @ 30 MPH


A4 .25 @ 32 MPH (52 kph) to 6 @ 32 MPH


A5 .25 @ 34 MPH (55 kph) to 1 @ -22 34 MPH


A6 .25 @ 36 MPH (55 kph) to 1 @ -22 36 MPH (B3, M1, M2 skiers)

 

Shortline Group

B1 1.25 @ -22 max speed t0 6 @ -22


B2 .25 @ -28 max speed to 3 @ -28


B3 3.25 @ -28 max speed to 6 @ -28


B4 .25 @ -32 max speed to 3 @ -32


B5 3.25 @ -32 max speed to 6 @ -32


B6 .25 @ -35 max speed to 3 @ -35

 

Super Shortline Group

C1 3.25 @ -35 max speed to 5 @ -35


C2 5.25 @ -35 max speed to 2 @ -38


C3 2.25 @ -38 max speed to 5 @ -38


C4 5.25 @ -38 max speed to shorter

 

[robscholl-OF]

Shortline is your max speed at -22 and beyond. In the entire world of people who water-ski there is really only a small percentage who can even run a slalom course. Even smaller -22 and beyond. I agree with mwetskier's post, lets not make this any more elite than it is. Anyone who skis with me, if you are -22 and shorter, you are shortline. If you are -38 and beyond, I am just pissed cuz your better than me......damn you....OF

[Ed_Obermeier]

Where does shortline really start? Usually one loop shorter than you're capable of getting to...

[Than_Bogan]

But but but ... elitism is so fun. It's the core benefit of having worked so hard to get near the top!

 

;)

[6balls]

I don't think it's elitist...it's about where the game significantly changes in terms of angles, how high a skier needs to be on the boat etc. I'd call it the running 35 off camp as the beginning...which incidentally makes me a beginner in the shortline world as a guy who runs nearly all 35's and an occasional 38. I don't think the guys above me are elitist...just better.

[RichardDoane]

and remember that there is no long line scoring in Canada

[Skihack]

I believe that once you figure out how to run 28 and 32 off you're on your way if you stick with it. 28 off is the first line length you really have to start getting up on the boat to turn.

[BG1]

The first time I “felt” short line slalom was at -22 back in 1922 but I think true short line slalom starts at -32/13 meters. That is where the pros start and there is no way you can call any pro tournament skiing long line. They start with a short line and continue to extremely short lines. To the individual, it’s all relative to the individuals skill level I guess.

[DanE]

@BG1 Wow! What age division do you ski in?

[teammalibu]

If you are at max speed and shorten to where you go out the front for at least 3 flips and cant find your ski you qualify!

[Glydon]

@Brady and @Amwetskier ... agree 100 percent , all the people in our area have switched to wakeboarding (shudder) cause of this attitude.

[ForrestGump]

Honestly, does it really matter? What's shortline for me is not shortline for someone else. The perspective is different for each of us.

[A_B]

The last time I looked, standard 75' is still scored in the rule book.

[Skoot1123]

OK - thanks for all the responses. I see the validity of all points made - including @Horton - but I too whole heartedly agree with what @miskier suggested. Why? Because at 22 off you do feel the whip of the boat. At 28 off you have to advance up on the boat in order to run the pass efficiently. At 32 and greater I don't have enough experience to comment intelligently on it.

 

For the new ballers out there - I think @horton should add the list from @miskier to the FAQ.

[PJ]

15 off. look it up

[cwillygood]

I'd say when you start running 35, although i do see where people are coming from when they say cutting the rope in general!

[Horton]

Haa well that is my personal record for dislikes. Everyone should get a trophy.

 

[Than_Bogan]

@Horton Another 1500 dislikes and I'll be ahead of you. Go Ballers! :)

 

Also, please send me my trophy right away.

[alex38]

The "elitist" viewpoint is a small part of what is deterring some intermediate skiers I'm trying to get to ski in AWSA.

But if they want 2 or 3 less skiers whatever we can ski at home too.

[gsm_peter]

Would it be ok to ask all contributiors here and everybody else that has an opinin to put in your definition in the poll in order to get the most commonly used definition more visible?

Sorry for asking.

Thanks Peter