Trick ski for beginner

[tfriess]

I'm looking to get into trick skiing. I have been using an old wooden combo ski for a while but today I used my buddies Quatum. Wow! I really need to get a trick ski! I can land some handle pass 360's and that is about the best I can do so far. I want a ski that I can progress on. Does anybody know if the new Radar would be a good ski for me? I'm 6'1 150 so wondering what size would be best? Also condering the possiblity of Wiley vs. Reflex.

[tfriess]

Might anybody have a setup they would be wanting to part with? Checked ski-it-again but theres not a whole lot there..

[GAJ0004]

If you buy new, go with any of the rubber edge skis. They are the best for toe tricks. The size would depend on the manufacturer recommendation. I like the Wileys trick wrap for a binding. I have a 13 year old KD 7000 trick ski. 44'' D3 makes one similar. Can't recommend which of the new ones is best. I have not had a chance to try a new one for a while.

 

[wski1831]

@trfriess you're on the right track. A new ski would help you a lot. Size wise you probably want a 42" or 43". The Radar sounds cool, but they don't even list it on their web site, and I don't know of anyone who has laid eyes on it. I'm on the Quantum, but D3 hard edge is a good option too. I felt the Quantum got better air. Reflex might be a good ski, but don't know anyone with one. The older Kidder or Connelly would be a step up from what you're on, but not near the newer skis.

[Brian_M]

I bought a Wiley with my quantum. So tight even with proper sizing that I could only stay in it for about 10minutes (some people like that, I obviously don't). Sent it back after 3 days and bought a Reflex. So comfortable that I can stay in it for 30-40 minute plop and fall sessions! I also feel it's more responsive.

[Horton]

I just started using the Radar trickski. already doing tricks I have not done in 20 years

[eleeski]

@GAJ0004 I'll disagree with your recommendation of the rubber edge skis. Folks I've coached have progressed fastest on the D3 hardedge. The Goode and Quantum feel quite similar to me so should work as well. People on the rubber edge ski struggle a bit more. Older skis have even worse learning curves.

The Reflex is a great binding. Hardshells are higher maintenance but worth it.

FWIW I don't personally ride either D3 or Reflex. I just appreciate excellent products.

 

Eric

[Horton]

not that I agree with Eric about anything but I do but know why a rubber edge ski would be better for beginner tricks

[wski1831]

Horton will there be a review of the Radar trick?

[Horton]

yea. sort of. I really do not trick much anymore but I will report what I feel

[ntx]

@tfriess I agree, hard edge for the level you are at. The rubber edge is geared for upper level toes.

[tfriess]

Thanks for all the input. I'm debating between the radar and quantum right now.

[KcSwerver]

Buy the A3...

[Horton]

@tfriess I have not ridden the Quantum but Russell makes good stuff. Both Radar and Masterline (Quantum) support BallOfSpray so flip a coin. You can not go wrong. Better yet Performance sells both brands of trick skis.

[mlusa]

@tfriess It sounds like you tried the Quantum and liked it. Why would you go with a Radar? The Quantum is the best performing trick ski on the market. Just look at the results of Alexei Z, Anna Gay, Neilly Ross, Pato and Diego Font and others. At the Masters 3 of the 4 winners were on Quantum. Most importantly, you have skied it and liked it.

 

I would definitely recommend a hard edge ski. They are far superior to rubber edge skis, for both hands and toes. You would use a 43" ski. I would go with a hardshell boot if you can.

 

@ntx "the rubber edge is geared for the upper level toes." I think the hard edge is as good or better for toes if designed properly. Look at the 3 of the 4 skiers who have tricked over 12,000 points. 3 of the 4 were on hard edge toe skis. Ace and I had the highest point toe passes of the Masters, both on hard edge skis. Anna has tricked as high as any women this year on toe pass - 4,380 on a hard edge ski. Neilly Ross is also on a hard edge ski for toes and is one of the best women toe trickers in the world. I've put some older skiers on the hard edge skis and watched them improve their reverse toes and to wrap ins. The ski has much less drag and makes for much less work to perform the same tricks. Efficiency leads to improved performance. Give a hard edge ski a try for toes, the results speak for themselves.

[epyscs]

I agree with @mlusa, hard-edges skis are no better for high end toes. In fact, this year I sold my D3 Honeycomb with less than 9 months on it as all the toe line tricks were destroying the edges.

 

I also switched 4 months ago from a Quantum to a Reflex Furtif and relegated the Quantum to a toe ski. The Furtif is certainly worth a go and I would certainly say its a better ski for hands than the Quantum. I have only done 1 set of toes on the Furtif and it worked well but was too big for the control I wanted.

[ntx]

@mlusa I think maybe I did not express myself very well. The thread started with a skier on a wooden combe pair of skis doing basic surface tricks, looking for a new ski. Then someone posted to "go with a rubber edge ski. They are the best for toe tricks" Eric Lee and Horton both questioned the rubber edge recommedation for the level the skier was at. I agreed with Eric Lee and Horton that a rubber edge was maybe not the right direction. My comment about the rubber edge being geared for upper level toes, was a effort to explain to a beginning tricker the basic differances between the two types of edges.

 

If a novice tricker, asked you the differance between a hard edge, and rubber edge ski, and the intended use, how would you respond?

 

Big scores are going up on both types. I think Erica and Adam both rode rubber edge for toes and hard edge for hands at Nationals.

 

Looking forward to seeing you in a few weeks at U21.

The handles look GREAT!!!!!!

[GAJ0004]

@eleeski. I may have to try one out. Are the hard edge skis better for wake tricks? That is what I really struggle with to get consistently. I am really struggling with stepover tricks too..

[FrankS]

I am also in the same situation currently and was wondering if anyone knew where I can get a hardshell for cheap. Also would putting a strada or rs1 or another textile type binding on a trick ski would be good?

 

[wski1831]

FrankS I have used a few different rubber bindings on my trick over the years. As far as the rubber boots go Wiley is the best for trick, I know they change a few things for trick not sure exactly what, but as far as a rubber boot hands down the best. The cheapest hard shell binding would probably be like @eleeski uses with the gatorade lids. Find a boot and attach to plate and drill the mount holes a bit oversize and you're in. I know he has posted pictures and specifics in another thread.

[eleeski]

@GAJ004 Hardedge skis rock off the wake. The Quantum has the best landing characteristics of any ski I have ridden. Run the speed up a bit and it takes off well. The D3 and Goode are also nice hand skis to learn on.

 

The other skis (like mine) may offer advantages but there is a tradeoff that may not favor a developing skier.

 

I haven't yet tried the Radar. It might be a while as the doctor has me off the water for a few weeks but I will eventually get to ski one. Review then?

 

@FrankS I tried a Radar boot on one of my skis. It was pretty good. Kirk liked it too. I made a light plate for it. It was great until @richarddoane stole it.

 

Reflex is the standard for hardshells. Deservedly so. Probably worth the money. Unfortunately there are few plastic Rollerblades any more so you might be stuck with Reflex, Goode or FM prices. Big 5 still has some if you want to modify yourself.

 

@wski1831 I can't go back to rubber. Thanks for the plug!

 

Eric

[ThePantsManCan]

Threadjack, who would like to buy my 41" Reflex Stealth? The thing is beautiful and I'm too fat!

[FrankS]

@eleeski I actually happen to have a pair of plastic rollerblades sitting around so if I was a high school student without a job and am already spending a lot of my money on a new trick ski, would it be a good option for me to build my own hardshell system and if so how would I go about doing that?

Thanks

Frank

[GAJ0004]

@eleeski Landing for me is not the problem. I need something that will help get me airborne. I am thinking my 2000 KD 7000 was designed to be used by the boats of the time. The newer boats have a much smaller and softer wake than my 1994 Nautique. The honeycomb ski sounds like it would work since they are supposed to be lightweight. The Wiley's trick binding works for me. I am big for trick skier so I have to go 19.2 MPH.

[KcSwerver]

@franks get ready for some trial and error buddy. Lots of error. If a release mechanism is involved it's got to be pretty precise. Good luck. If I were you (wich I too am also a HS student, who buys all his gear) I would keep on the lookout for an old reflex setup. I got a complete reflex with 404 release for 75$ on eBay.

[KcSwerver]

http://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?topic=Search&category=Bindings&postid=24797 if you are LFF and size 9

[drew]

I taught mlusa everything he knows, including how to design his skis. The only thing he hasn't listened on yet is to build me a 46" so I can take my action to the Masters... Horton, you might need one of those too.

Neilly rides quantum because it is the most balanced and efficient ski out there. Russell has done a lot of work on rocker and shape. The subtle shape differences are somewhat proprietary but are significant.

[BraceMaker]

@drew - is it just bunk or is there validity that the quantum is more difficult to do surface tricks but a better wake trip ski?

 

I've heard a few people wagering that the D3 was easier for the surface stuff.

[eleeski]

@FrankS @KcSwerver is right. There is a lot of work making a binding system work. Buy a used Reflex or FM. Use the Rollerblades for parts to keep the used system working.

 

@GAJ004 The honeycomb skis with rubber edges can be heavier than the hardedge. Rubber edges also tend to wear to a softer edge which sticks to the water. The hardedge skis usually get air better - regardless of the boat. D3, Quantum or Goode have great learning curves.

 

@drew Wait, you couldn't have taught @mlusa. He was inspired by my skis! Actually, I have been trying to get my skis to land like the Quantum - I'm copying him now. Except the performance from those subtle differences is hard to reengineer. The 46" ski I built ended up getting rebindinged (is that a word?) to a wakeboard setup. It rocked as a wakeboard!

 

Eric

[klindy]

I need a 46" ski too. In fact I emailed @mlusa about it just after the nationals.

[tfriess]

bump: can anyone recommend a good rear trick plate or are they all basically the same? This will be going on a Graviton

[GAJ0004]

On of my fellow trick skiers at Dave's Pond just got the new Radar trick ski. He said it gets great lift off the wake. Has not tried it for toe tricks yet.

[RLW]

Quantum rear toe plate will fit inserts in the Graviton.

[Chef23]

@GAJ0004 unless you are trying flips or wake 5s issues with getting air on wake tricks are usually technique related and not ski related.

[Moskier3ev]

I have been riding the Radar for 4 sets. It feels really good on toes I can feel the line a lot better. The take off seems to be as good. It always seems to take me a few sets to know where the edge is. I have been able to clean up a few tricks. I really like it. I am riding the 43".

 

My 2 cents

 

Jeff Lindsey

[GAJ0004]

@Chef23. It is just like slalom.. Some days I am dialed in, some days I am not. I don't get as much time on the water as I would like to.

 

[eleeski]

@GAJ004 It's just like slalom. If you can buy a ski that fixes some problems, do it!

 

Eric