Strange & Fun? Trivia

[Edbrazil]

In Open Men at the 1977 Nationals (Berkeley), what was the shortest line they got into? Yes, this also includes runoffs.

[Edbrazil]

I was there. One of the appointed drivers, not for OM, but I did pull OW, where Deena won. Horton: your territory, but maybe a bit far back for you.

[allycat]

just a guess

 

[Zman]

Just a guess as well...more than a hand full of years later before I was skiing(even though I'm an old fart). Was just figuring since it was about 10 years later before Bob LaPoint crashed through 38 Off, I was guessing 35 was just getting tested in 77.

[DanE]

Guessing 38 off since 11 years later Mike Kjellander got Into 41

[Edbrazil]

Lots of views so far, but not many votes/guesses. Have a go at it.

 

Remember the word "strange". Any Cali people out there who attended as spectators?

 

World record at that time was Kris 4@38 in 1975 at Horton Lake, tied by Bob in 1976.

Kris' performance was one factor in designing the Record Capability Tournament Rules.

 

Correct vs. Kjellander in 1988. See: http://www.iwwfed.com/history/displayrecords.php

 

[Horton]

I was there but I was 8 years old

[klindy]

Given the chance to re-guess I would vote for 41. Purely a guess but I'll say there was a tie at something at 39 (maybe 1/2 or 1) which itself would be a new record at that time (I think). Since the tie breaking rules then were to go out at the pass before (38) there would have been another tie. The next step was the "pass after" which would have been 41. The tie breaking rules have changed since then.

[Than_Bogan]

@klindy just sold me on his theory. Now very curious if he's right!

[MattP]

I was not alive by any means butI know where to look for the right answer..

[ALPJr]

I guessed 38. I actually have the program from the 77 Berkeley Nat's on my PC. My long time coach David Spencer won Men 1 overall that year. Two of my three favorite ski sites - Spencer's, and Berkeley - and of course my current fav Jacks.

[Mateo_Vargas]

Here are some recent pics for you ALP Jr and a neat painting of the judges tower that I found online.

[Edbrazil]

Keep guessing. No one has hit it yet, but @klindy has some good notes.

[Than_Bogan]

Ok, my new guess is to take @klindy's explanation but back it all up one pass, such that the shortest attempted was 10.75m.

 

I'm also starting to wonder if they hadn't really thought through the runoff rules yet, and sometime insane happened like running completely out of rope because they kept tying at 0 and then shortening it again! :)

 

One way or the other, this is gonna be an interesting story!

[Skoot1123]

Just a wild guess. But I am guessing that there is more to the story than just meets the eye. Rules have changed significantly since then.

[bogboy]

Maybe barely getting into 41?

[jimbrake]

I was there to watch, but don't remember the winning score. I do remember that BLP was running 35 then and making it look good while everyone else was fighting it, so I guessed something at 38. I remember watching BLP run 35 at the Park during that time frame, but it may have been a Cal Cup pro tournament and not the Nats. Didn't BLP run 38 at McCormick's in '80, and not "ten years later"?

[Nando]

I'm voting for -41, based on a vague recollection that there was a runoff with multiple ties. Unless I'm way off, the WR at that time was still maybe 4 @ -38.

[TomD]

I skied in M2 at these Berkeley Nationals in 1977. But I don’t remember the details of the OM runoff.

Here are the results from The Water Skier magazine:

KLP 3@35 1

Mark Crone 2 ½@ 35 2

Chris Redmond 2@35 3

Bill Chisnell 2@35 4

Hugh Peterson 2@35 5T

Tony Krupa 2@35 5T

Bob LaPoint 1 ½@35 7

So four skiers tied with 2@35 and Hugh and Tony ended up tied for 5th. I bet they ran out of loops on the official towline and just called 5th place a tie.

[mwetskier]

my brother remembers reading somewhere about a time in those days when a tie was decided at the next shortest rope and 2 guys kept tying with 0 balls each so they kept shortening until the had no more loops. if i had to bet i would say it was at 41 or 43 but i never heard how they finally decided who got what place

[Edbrazil]

Wow, impressive data by @TomD. Assuming its accurate. Maybe one of those people who saved all their old Water Skiers and read every word of them. Like me, back when.

Anyway, that scoring appears as a win by Kris, a 2nd by Mark, and then 4 others tied initially

for 3rd with 2 at 35. Which helps explain multiple runoffs to settle everything.

 

Best as I recall, when the event was won, I took off for hotel, errands, lunch, or whatever.

When I came back, it was still running. With the Technical Controller having to hustle down

to the starting dock with and a piece of line. Think I remember that the runoffs took as

long or longer as the OM event itself.

 

The Rest Of The Story later.

[Rich]

I was skiing back then, my ski patrner at the time Dave Reed won men 2, I do remember at the 1975 Nationals in Virginia KLP tied a tall thin guy named Bruce Fink. They tied with 1 or 2 @38 I believe with KLP winning in a runnoff. If KLP Mark Crone & Bob didn't run 35 in 77 something was up with the conditions. There were a handful of guys running 35' @ 36 in 1975 thru 1980

[Onside135]

I bet all those guys at the time considered themselves "shortline" skiers despite only getting into 35' off...just saying...

[Edbrazil]

Yup: 9.75m or 3 towline loops beyond 38 off, which is where the initial towline ran out of loops. Tech. Controller had to add 3, by my count, which may not be perfect. Back then, before a Rules change (undoubtedly because of this event), for additional ties, you shortened again. Anyway, the last 2 (apparently Hugh Peterson & Tony Krupa) went out at 41 (zero+zero),

and came back at 43 (plus zero). Somewhat entertaining and humorous. Yes, that was in the era of plus buoys, which made sustained ties very unusual. And also when they shortened on the return pass even if you didn't make a full 6 on the outgoing pass.

 

Nate's recent performance actually getting to 3 at 43 prompted me to remember back when.

 

Berkeley tended to have some significant crosswinds, as it was just off the Bay, so no surprise that scores were down a pass or so.

 

Other note: it was 1973 Petersburg, VA Nationals with Kris and Bruce Fink. Both running 35, and Kris getting 1 vs. 1/2 for Bruce. For an initial National Record in Open Men. See:

http://www.awsasouth.org/history/NatRecordBook1.5.pdf Page 29. That event was run in

a pouring rain. Normally, no tournament would run in that condition with raindrops bouncing off the water 4 inches or so, but it was the last day and they had to get it done. The Water Skier from that year in the Fall called it the "Miracle of Petersburg" or similar. Grimditch on the cover. Lots and lots of records set in all 3 events. Many stories about the site, such as the power poles in the water.

 

[TomD]

@Rich According to the Water Skier, Frankie Dees won M2 slalom with 3@32off, Dave was 2nd with 2@32. Still a nice accomplishment for him.

 

The conditions are always challenging at Berkeley Aquatic Park with a near constant cross-wind off of the SF bay, fast salt water and normally chilly weather. Scores were always lower there than most anywhere else. Glad I don't ski there anymore.

[ALPJr]

Always a good vibe at Berkeley. Skied there in 94 & 95. Basically skied there every weekend from April to October except for Margaritaville at Shortline and the Marin Club weekend at Bell Aqua. The Marin crew always put on a good event. Even the monthly club meetings were fun - quick meeting, brbq, and ski rides. Matt Brant, Chris Velosing, and Steve Ware, from the Berkeley club were always there for a ride. Al Frosini was the first guy I met at the Park. He hooked me up with my first few rides there - said most of the private sites down south were to hot to ski in. Al's Novice Nationals was really fun. Lots of skiers from 26mph to -38. The Cal States in 94 had some impressive skiers. Also a great model for public parks and to bring skiing to the masses - multi use lakes, fields, courts, trails. Just takes time and money.