Adding wakeboarding to 3-event

[jcamp]

I have to say that comments on this forum have changed the way I've thought about wakeboarding over the last couple years. I've been ironclad against it for a long time, but now it's pretty clear at this point that tournament water skiing missed an opportunity way back by not finding a way to bring wakeboarding into the 3-event (or 4-event?) fold.

 

I know, I know, there are many, many reasons to not like wakeboarding and I'll probably never ride one again and will cringe if/when my kids want to. But you've got to face the facts: it's more fan friendly, can be done just about anywhere behind anything and kids like it. I think if we would have welcomed wakeboarders with open arms to our tournaments then many of them would have picked up slalom, jumping and tricks too. It probably didn't have to be us against them.

 

So now, the question is, can we (and should we) do anything to better include wakeboarding? Are there even any tournaments that include both slalom and wakeboard (except for the INT)?

 

I'm not saying we should do anything. But thought the question was worth asking.

[jcamp]

I also find it interesting that almost all of the ski companies had no qualms at AT ALL about moving into wakeboarding, yet we tournament skiers fought it tooth and nail.

[eleeski]

Seconded! Wakeboarding is fun, similar enough to use trick rules with minor modifications and a source for bringing fresh blood into slalom.

 

It starts with welcoming and encouraging wakeboards at our private sites. Many wakeboards are tournament legal for tricks already - encourage the wakeboarders to develop a 20 second run and enter trick tournaments. Our attitudes on an individual scale can make the biggest difference in whether we use wakeboards as an asset or fight them.

 

Eric

[The_MS]

Erosion

[eleeski]

@MS In California where our water never freezes, wind storms do more damage than boats. The amount of energy put into a shoreline during a big windstorm dwarfs what any boat can do. Obviously, boat erosion is real . But unless you live in southern Canada where the water is frozen during the big windstorms, well crafted shorelines are necessary no matter what.

 

Eric

[jcamp]

Just make them use the same wake as trickers. Problem solved.

[klindy]

There's nothing preventing the use of a wakeboard now. Sure "some" wakeboards would not be legal to use under the current rules but if you're a wakeboarder and want to sign up for tricks and do a few flips for points I'll call 'em.

[jcamp]

@klindy is right, but that's not something that we have ever pushed. Should we do so?

 

[eleeski]

Yes! Kirk skied his first Nationals on a wakeboard. He developed quite nicely into a great conventional tricker and a solid 3 event skier. Why not encourage wakeboards?

 

Eric

[behindpropellers]

I bet you will find that most (former) wakeboarders moved to slalom or some other discipline if they have kept skiing.

[Beans]

At collegiate tournaments they allow wakeboarding and give it half the points of a single trick ski, just like 2 trick skis.

[Joeprunc]

Excuse my humble opinion if it is too harsh...

Wakeboardings doesn't need AWSA, why would they want to join the club? Wakeboarding became and "extreme sport" and has continued to grow leaps and bounds quicker than skiing. Kids want to look cool and extreme, to impress girls. Unfortunately in most of their eyes doing six turns isn't nearly as cool as flips, spins, and huge air. Plus they can listen to their music as loud as possible. There is also ample amounts of room on wakeboard boats for as many bikini babes AND it helps with the wake!

 

It took me 25 years to realize that skiing is much harder and more extreme than wakeboarding. It took me another 3 years of skiing to even realize what a water ski course was, and how much fun and addictive it is. And now that I have a wife the # of girls on my boat doesn't matter. Someone did a piss poor job in promoting water skiing as and extreme sport when wakeboarding came around. But even if they did, you really need a course to prove that you are truely a man, and they really aren't readily available to the public.

[rodltg2]

I agree with @Joeprunc. I don't think wakeboarders really need awsa. Allowing them to compete in the trick event and using non weighted boats isn't going to attract too many. I think its a great idea, but most man made ski lakes are just too small ( short and shallow) . I couldn't imagine dropping a G23 in our lake !! Maybe if you build it , they will come! LOL.

 

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b265/rodltg2/IMG_3802_zpsf16f9041.jpg

[boarditup]

I designed a private lake for wakeboarding. It also houses the jump. It is deeper than the slalom specific lakes with a unique bottom shape to let the boat settle in but punch up the wakes at 75-90 feet.

 

There is a very different vibe between 3-event and wakeboarding. Even in a 3-event boat set up for tricking, you don't have 8-10 people jamming to the tunes. 3-event boats have minimal personnel. Personally, I have a wakeboard boat with 2,100 ballast and surf more than anything else - because the kids like it so much. I cannot get them, right now, to sit on the dock or shore and watch slalom waiting for their turn. It is not as much fun as in the boat. As Dad, I really like the kids all around laughing, making videos (Vine), and posting photos to Facebook and Instagram of the rider's run - especially if there is a great yard sale.

 

I like the 2-event format - slalom and wakeboard. Those are the two biggest events, so put them together. I run both, so it works for me. At my age, I don't throw inverts, but I still have fun on the wakeboard. I still prefer slalom. However, I will do whatever I can with my kids around me.

[RazorRoss3]

In collegiate skiing (particularly in the Midwest) we advertise our teams as water ski and wakeboard clubs for the sake of attracting as many due paying members as possible. In my time on the team I've seen a wake boarder run buoys at 26mph 15 off at collegiate nationals on a wakeboard, I've seen a wake boarder throw 2-3 flips in a trick run, and I've even seen one hit a ramp (a lot of work to 3/4 for only 60 ft.) The way we run the tournaments is that in trick the board can't have fins and is scored like a skier riding 2 skis so everything is half credit other than flips which are full, in slalom there is a natural disadvantage because the board just doesn't turn sharp enough to run a full speed pass and the toe side is a pain, and when some knuckle head tries to jump they hardly break 40 ft. on a ride over. I would see no reason that non collegiate tournaments couldn't move towards this as a first step and then start integrating a wakeboarding event in as we moved forward. It would shrink the ever growing size of wakeboard boats if we made them use the same boats as we use for the other 3 events, they would start learning some boat etiquette so they wouldn't be constantly ruining the water, and more than likely they would start moving into the other events further growing the sport.

[SoonerBred01]

I'd love to see the two events merged, but I have a hard time seeing how it will work. It's not so much a difference in the difficulty of the sports with respect to one another, it seems to be more about how to accommodate two polar-opposite methods of using the water. DD boats are designed for the smallest wake possible, with most of the seating/ergonomics as a secondary concern. Wakeboarding V-drives seem to encourage you to bring along friends and the family dog for some fun. Obviously there are some v-drives that can put out a respectable slalom wake, but it seems most any serious 3-event skier would scoff a the notion of owning a v-drive boat.

 

Secondary issue (although a large issue) is that most private ski lakes aren't too conducive to wakeboarding as they aren't terribly long, and the permanent buoys (yes, i know there are submersible/portables) would likely be nailed time and time again. How to share the water would also be an item of heavy debate, even on large ski lakes.

[BraceMaker]

@soonerbred01 - hopefully they'd just only run one boat.

 

I think some of the issue will always be the pace of tournaments, lots of down time in 3 event.

 

Adding a separate event or even increasing the field of trickers just makes the day longer, or means that there are fewer passes.

 

Head to head formats for slalom are interesting as the skiing density is larger. Same thing for night jump events. Letting folks get into trick on wake board hopefully gets more to transition into 3 event skiing, instead of diluting the trick field with more wakeboarders until it becomes slalom, wake, jump.

[MISkier]

The Michigan State Championships each year include wakeboarding and novices over 2.5 days (Friday evening - novice, Saturday, Sunday).

[SoonerBred01]

@BraceMaker, I agree. However, I would think it would be awkward to take a bunch of wakeboarders used to v-drive boats and put them behind a DD for a tournament. Unless they had ballast to change the wake, it would be difficult for them to change their routine to account for the lack of wake size.

 

I could see it working if they ever made 3-event and wakeboarding tournaments with a cable park. Then the wakeboarding is scored more like skateboarding, with obstacles/pipe rails/etc without needing a wake/boat at all.

[ForrestGump]

At the Bennett's collegiate 3 event tournament this spring, they also included a wakeboard tournament. So you had jumping happening on one lake at the same time as the wakeboarding on the other lake. So people could turn back and forth and watch both. Everyone enjoyed it.

[RazorRoss3]

At collegiate Midwest regionals this year a wake boarder in the trick event threw two flips on a board with no fins behind a tournament boat and was able to get plenty of air time to pull it off. I think it would take a few years but wake boarders would start switching to the tournament boats for the sake of practice and it would also lower the cost of practice in that event since the tournament ski boat costs a lot less than the sometimes 6 figure wakeboard boat. I think if you got the word out that we were including the event (4 event skiing) or were making the trick rules more wake board friendly that they would start showing up.

[gregy]

I hadn't been on a trick ski or wakeboard in years, I was out with some friend and jumped on there wakeboard. I couldn't believe how easy surface turns and basic wake tricks were. That was on a small outboard boat. Any tournament inboard should be adequate for a wakeboarder to score a good run on.

[eleeski]

I put in a rule change proposal to slightly encourage wakeboards. Email Richelle and USA Waterski to support the changes.

Eric

[Greg Banish]

What is the argument against just letting them use a wakeboard in trick competition at full score? Have them use the same boat (direct drive tournament boat), but allow reasonable ballast selection and wedges/plates/whatever to yield a more useful wake for them as long as it's readily available to all boat owners at purchase. If they can do enough impressive tricks in 20 seconds (at whatever speed they choose), they get points and stand a chance at better overall scores. I know a lot more people who slalom/wakeboard than slalom/trick.

[eleeski]

@Eficalibrator Wakeboards are already OK in tournaments. It's our attitude that makes them feel unwelcome. Please welcome our friends on whatever ski they choose. My rule changes are minor steps in that direction.

Eric

[scotty_alz]

wakeboards have been ok in tournaments since they came out. my little sister has skied in multiple regionals and nationals on a wakeboard and stood on the podium from it she hated trick skis and when she got up on them she would catch her edge but her wakeboard was easier. i slalom trick wakeboard surf wakeskate and used to jump until i tore my knees up to much and no access to a ramp. i can do flips on both a trick or wakeboard and Its true you can do all of them behind the same boat but on a tournament level or behind a 3 event boat you would be asking wakeboarders to go backwards. thats where they started before vdrives ballast and towers they had a response or sport nautique with a skylon pole. if you wanna go huge on a wakeboard you need all three and to keep the progression going for both of us we have to use seperate boats just like surfers and wakeboarders are starting to use more sport specific boats. but you can wakeboard on aprivate lake until they run you out and tell you to come back with a slalom ski. i like the idea but i think the cable is the only way unless we get over the erosion and music and people and serious fun instead of just serious skiing but it would be a good way to bring spectators and advertise for smaller tournaments to get more skiers

[Chef23]

We have a guy in our region that tricks on a wakeboard. I have a tough time calling his run because it looks so much different. He wears a spray leg on what he considers his front leg to help with the judging. it would certainly help to have a trick list for him.

 

If I recall the rule on wakeboards just is they can't have molded fins. Frankly I think it would be harder to do surface turns on a wakeboard with molded fins.