Gate shot timing

[cragginshred]

So this has likely been discussed a lot but here goes. I am settled for good at 34mph and found that as I get used to -22 I do not need to kill the gate shot. Tonight I came in to one ball hot, early, and wide but did not back side it. I had all sorts of difficulty font he tail ect) and it was not until the end of 2nd set that it clicked which made the rest of the pass pretty easy. I was told stay on the handle longer across the wake and not get pulled up from my pseudo stack, but It seems like I need to find the balance between this and as Rossi put it after watching my video not 'pulling the boat' resulting in too much speed particularly ion 1 ball. Thoughts? If you never ski at -22 please try to remember when you 1st got used to it,...thanks!

 

-Don

[Lieutenant Dan]

@cragginshred I too am a 34mph / -22 to -28 skier. I find that you have to not get too pumped and actually go easy on the gate shot to set up a good one ball. Get wide on the pull out, turn in using the front of the ski (no tail turning), set a good angle and just hold it to the middle of the wake. You've got extra distance / time to get wide and turn around 1 ball. Easy does it!

[Than_Bogan]

I feel that basic advice applies the rest of the way: Every line length requires getting up even higher and setting even better angle through the gate. But you don't want to kill it and you don't want to stay on it too long. It's a balancing act for sure!

[cragginshred]

That angle with out it creating too much speed thing is the balance I need to find. Seems like most adjustments it is a subtle difference of just letting up a bit with out compromising stack or edge.

[ski6jones]

I learn the lesson of going too hard at the gates every time I learn a new line length. @Lieutenant Dan gives good advice.

[Texas6]

You last comment hit the nail on the head @cragginshred‌ - it's a balance of angle and speed, and you don't necessarily need tons of speed to generate angle. Get up on your front foot a bit at the apex of your pullout as you initiate your turn towards the gates, try and match your speed to the boat speed as you initiate your turn in towards the gates, if you slow down too much and wait for the boat at the apex of your pull-out it creates a recipe for too much speed without enough angle.

[walleye]

@ all you shortliners I have told my kids what LDan said. But I am not confident with that and have not drove that at them. Reason is I see the pros hammer the gates with alot of speed. Saying that they are at faster speeds and shorter line lengths. Myself as example I do what LDan says and it works for me but I am always second guessing myself thinking it was my inability to pre turn, so I keep my mouth shut.

 

My kids are at -15 to -28 30 mph and 32 mph. When they reach -22 I see slack at one and they hammer the gates. They both have excellent stack, angle there gate shot appears good. You hear alot comments of keeping speed thru the buoy for me as example that results in going to the tail at one. Once in the coarse no problem only at one do I have to slow down.

 

Question is should I have them slow the gate at 30/32mph to what @texas6 said to match the boat speed. The few times I had them slow the gate the ski was ready to turn to quick and they insided the buoy. I got the evil eye and I shut up.

 

My coaching ability is limited stacked position. They will be going to junior ski next week, hopefully Dane can move them to the next level. Any suggestions would be appriciated.

[Texas6]

@walleye, I am not suggesting that they slow down prior to turning in...what I am saying is that it is very common for skiers to pull out, glide, and wait for the boat to pick them back up and load the rope, and then turn in toward the gates. this generates a lot of speed early and oftentimes causes some of the problems afforementioned. What I am suggesting is twofold..

1.) Get wide & Get up on the front foot a bit just as you begin initiating your turn in toward the gates. This helps you turn your ski. When you slow down, and wait for the load from the boat just before turning in toward the gates, or "rock back" as you turn in toward the gates: A.) your ski doesn't turn in and generate angle as easily, and B) it is a recipe for too much speed.

2.) Optimally, if a skier can match their speed with the speed of the boat as they initiate their turn in toward the gates, the ski is free to turn with greater angle, and the speed in the work zone (between the apex of the pullout to the beginning of the transition behind the boat) is more manageable at most line lengths.

[GOODESkier]

In my novice world of up through 38 @ 34 MPH I think of ball one as wanting to be as slow and controlled as possible. No need to be hot into one ball, it normally ends in a mistake later if you are screaming hot into one ball. Just work on the balancing act and see how slow/light you can take it and be wide/early enough at 22' off. As the line shortens, you are not looking to get wider any more, but just manage the speed and swing.

[cragginshred]

Makes total sense Daryn, well put! I am pulling out about 5' wider than the 2-4-6 which seems to work for me. Some would say pull out wider but I seem to get the abrupt stop and go if I do. Not sure why, but I am sure someone here can tell me

[Waternut]

I struggled with this for a long time. If I took a wide gate, I would be horribly fast and out of control at 1 ball. I took narrow gates for the first year and a half to compensate for this. This year I learned to get a wide gate though. What I do is wait until it looks like I'm about to ski past the gates and slowly turn in. Now I feel late and stay down through the gates pretty hard as I nearly clip the right ball. By that time I realize I'm right where I want to be but have already zipped through the second wake on edge and am now wide and early for 1 ball with a tight line. The problem before is I felt early going through the gates so I let up and made a casual edge change which feels like the right thing to do but it puts me on a fast, narrow, and out of control line into 1 ball.

[Lieutenant Dan]

@walleye I have friends that I ski with who are also -22. When I see them getting the slack at one, I tell them to just go easier (i.e. don't "pull" hard) through the gates. Works (nearly) all of the time.

[rockdog]

@Lieutenant Dan is the man! Coaching is your calling.

[skier2788]

My ski partner and I have a new mantra we are trying out especially on a new line length or at our hardest pass. It is up the tempo not the intensity. We tend to way over pull when we get to those passes because something in our head says " if I pull really hard I will be wide and early." When in reality this generates excess speed and more importantly down course speed. Found that if I pull the same through the gates at 35 off as I do at 28 off I still make the bouy with plenty of time and less slack at one. You need to take a better angle by turning in a little later but the same pull. So I would say that if your gates are good at 15 off take the same gate at 22. Don't build it up in your mind and over pull. Up the tempo not the intensity. For what it's worth my gates suck.

[SkiJay]

You see the pros pull toward the gate with high intensity all the time. The key is to get the "pulling" done early into an early edge change. The hard early pull sets up the angle, and the early edge change sets up the width and space leaving maximum time to decelerate to perfect tight-rope turning speed after a long composed pre-turn.

[cragginshred]

While in the pass 'maximum time' does not yet seem to be on my radar.But I get it!! @SkiJay what is the key to not getting the stop and go with a super wide pull out? I currently pull to about 5' wider than 2-4-6 and if I get farther up on the boat I decelerate then get slack when I turn in. What I am doing seems to work but curious as to what I am missing to get farther up on the boat successfully?

[SkiJay]

Speculating without video, my guess would be along the lines of needing to stay on your outbound edge, weight centered to forward, right until you turn in @cragginshred‌. And the turn-in needs to be with your mass up over the front of your ski so the turn is more tip-and-rip than a tail turn. However, five feet wide of the buoy line sounds like you are wide enough for a good gate shot. You don't need to be right up beside the boat with your -22 pullout.