One tip, just one tip to help me stop BREAKING AT THE WAIST on my offside turn.

[Tdub]

Okay, I have been skiing the course for over twenty five years and have never really progressed as much as I probably should have. I am getting older now and have become more frustrated this year than ever. Can you guys just give me one tip to help this situation. I am left foot forward, 32mph, and rarely run 28. PB is 3-1/2 32. I break at the waist so badly, I can read the small type on 2 and 4 ball. I ski on a 67" D-3 Nomad and will most likely purchase either a Helix or Quest soon. One tip for the cause, please.

 

Cheers.

Tom

[alex38]

What helps me with same issue is to achieve a strong stacked position before I even pull out for gate, the stronger I start-the stronger I stay.

[Steven_Haines]

In your ski setup, could you possibly have too much tip added to your fin? Or are your boots possibly too far forward? Do you inadvertently fall over at the finish of your on side turn. That's a sign of too much tip pressure

[gregy]

If possible post video.

[Tdub]

Thanks for the quick response. I am sure I need to mess with the fin. I guess I need to get serious with that. I will post a video tomorrow. Thanks @alex38, @Steven Haines, and @gregy. I love all aspects of the sport, just getting a little frustrated. By the way, this forum has got the stoke going for me again. Thanks to all.

[Chet]

I was told about your post and it saddened me that for 25 years this problem has plagued you.

I know that trying not to break at the waist is not the answer after all you can't do a don't.

So I have a do suggestion for you to do.

Your ski is going to try and go outside the ball.

I would like you to try and have your head chase your feet all the way to the buoy.

Don't think about how to get to the ball just have your head go where your feet go.

No other rules to start.

If your head stays with your feet you should have a hard time breaking.

Do what it takes with your arms or your cut to achieve this goal.

It's time this broken position is fixed. You can change that behavior immediately if you focus hard and specific.

Hope this helps.

[Tdub]

@Chet Thanks, great advice. I Will take that advice and run with it. A bit of a cool snap has just begun here in Northern Ohio. I hope to get out in a day or two. 92 degrees yesterday...68 degrees today. Ouch. Thanks again.

[GaryWilkinson]

@Tdub I think I have have you beat.

I'm 55 and have been slaloming with a broken waist since I was 7. But now rarely,

thanks good coaching, watching hundreds of videos and committing to the leverage position or getting "stacked".

 

I have found that I used to spend so much time and energy worrying about the turn, slowing down, knees bent,head up etc when my problem was behind th boat in all the white water.

 

Simply, if you don't have enough speed and good angle past the white water, (even though you have gotten wide enough for the buoy), if you reach toward the boat with a flat ski waiting for the buoy, your ski will stall, sink in the water, fall behind your body and voila! Break at the waist!!

 

So keep it simple, concentrate on a leverage position, gain good angle and speed thru the wakes and this will give you the appropriate amount of speed at the ball for an easy turn that is in control with your hips up. Without this speed the ski stalls from not being able to cast out wider and be free of the boat.

 

@Than_Bogan‌ feel free to chime in here with your article and it's link.

 

Good stack =

Good speed at ball=

Free of the boat to be able to keep hips up=

A nice turn without a flat ski- ever!

 

Good luck, and don't wait till you're 55 to try it.

 

[klindy]

There could be a few reasons you break at the waist. But it's impossible to break at the waist if you keep your shoulders up. One good way for me to keep my shoulders up when I start the "waist breaking" routine is to imagine the position you'd be in if you were shooting a bow and arrow. The handle hand is your "bow" and your other arm (and by default, your shoulder) should be proud with your free hand near your shoulder, cheek or ear. It doesn't need to be overly exaggerated but a good reach with shoulders up will keep you from breaking at the waist in most cases.

[nam1975]

I've heard d3 bindings moved back a touch from stock settings also help. Easy thing to try.

[ToddL]

It is likely that your wake crossing from odd to even is the start of the root cause. I am guessing that you are coming into your offside buoys feeling too fast and headed downcourse. If so, the solution is to fix the wake crossing before the offside turn. Out of onside ball, wait a touch later to grab the handle and load the line. Think, "let the ski turn back towards the white water just a bit more." As you do this, see/feel your hip move under the handle before you grab/load. Then progressively load into the first wake, and then maintain this load through the centerline or possibly to almost the second wake. This should put you on a wider and earlier path off the second wake giving you more time and confidence to employ the techniques above.

[skibug]

Something real simple to try and it only takes one ball or one pass. Assuming you are using the correct hand grip for a lefty (left palm down) as approach 2, 4 ball and begin to reach, twist your right palm up and keep it facing up until you come back on the handle with your left hand.

[Steven_Haines]

Another thought is that you may be rushing the turn. When you rush, typically you push with your rear leg which causes you to dig a hole. When that happens something has to give.

Video would help

[MISkier]

The remedy to this, with whatever method/motion/technique you use, is to have the ski out in front of you as the turn finishes instead of jammed underneath you. Better stack from your onside turn and onside pull gives you more time into that offside turn. Hips need to be up, no butt drop. You need to use that additional time to do any combination of the following:

 

1. Flex ankles, pressure on front foot into the pre-turn - no shoulders forward

2. Counter-rotate/pull your free shoulder back slightly in the turn

3. Drop hip in the turn

4. Swing hips through, pivot around the handle, and drive ski under the rope at the finish

5. Don't reach forward for the handle, retake it naturally as the ski finishes and has the cross-course direction set

 

I know you asked for one tip, so the one tip is:

 

Figure out how to get the ski in front of you as you finish the turn.

 

 

 

[Tdub]

So many great responses, thanks so much. I appreciate each and every one. Just another reason why I love this sport. Great people. I have become so frustrated this year I have considered just skiing at 15 off and enjoy the sport without trying to advance. Just enjoy the pull and the feeling of going around some buoys and skiing with family and friends. But that didn't last long. The competitive spirit takes over, you always strive to improve. Anyway, I found some video from a year ago while I was still on a D-3 X5. Just looking the video I solo many mistakes. T-Rex arms on the bad side, double pull, water in face on off side turn, water in face onside lean. If you want to call that a lean. So, here is the proof. So much to work on. Thanks again.

 

I have tried every encoding scheme and cannot upload a video. What format and data size is required?

[Tdub]

Link to Vimeo. Thanks again.

http://vimeo.com/greendoormediaworks/review/105478048/32ebf18716

[BraceMaker]

Whats been working for me this season is keeping the handle in control outbound, coach caught that i was giving it up to the boat, which meant loss of direction, and hurried turns with the boatcoming back on pull. keeping hand in control has really made it feel like the ski shoots out there and finishes with me.

[Waternut]

Very clean turns. I'm no expert but it definitely looks like you ride your back foot really really hard which unfortunately forces you to break at the waist to be properly balanced. A lot of that rear leg pressure could be defensive but it could also be that your bindings are just too far forward and the only way to be balanced on the ski is ride the back leg.

 

I'd say try to push your front knee over your toes. That will get more pressure on the front leg but your upper body will still be behind your feet. Try to ride like that ALL the time...especially before your pull out and after you exit the course. If that feels like you're going to go OTF, your bindings are probably too far forward.

[jipster43]

I gave up the quest for more buoys this year in favor of better stack. One of the easiest things for me to think about is keeping my arms straight. Straight! Straight! Straight!

 

Your arms are doing a curl at the second wake during your gate shot which causes you to break at the waist. The beauty of concentrating on straight arms and elbows in tight is it causes a lot of other positive reactions to occur.

 

But be patient. You are trying to eradicate a lifetime of habits. You have to focus on one thing until it is really engrained. I know. I got a D in patience this year and failed to allow the time to really change my tendency to pull with my arms.

 

You look really quiet on the ski though. Much less Spazzy than myself. Get more centered on your ski during the pullout for the gates and straighten your arms and you'll soon be surpassing my buoy count.

[MISkier]

@Tdub, the very first thing I noticed in that video is that your arms are not straight pulling through the gates and you ride a flat ski through the gates. If you pull in with your arms, you pull yourself up off the edge and sacrifice your outbound direction. You are also thrown forward at the wake, since you are not in optimal position on an edge. Thus, you lose angle and are slightly narrow into one ball. That makes you downcourse and starts a very slight scramble. It can compound at each ball, taking away the time you need in order to be wide, early, and using the other techniques. You aren't able to work on the offside stuff when you are a little late right from the beginning.

 

I see the arms pulling in at other points during the pass as well.

 

There is a lot of good stuff there and you have a lot of good fundamentals that will pay off once you make a few tweaks. I don't think it will be that hard to correct.

 

Begin at the beginning. Straighten the arms and go through the wake on edge in good pulling position.

[ForrestGump]

It starts before the gate. As you pull out and rise up, you rise up on your rear foot instead of rising up over the ball of your front foot. The water is breaking at your front heel, a solid 10-12 inches from where it needs to be breaking. You can see the ski tip wiggle as you want the ski to move in. Start there and clean that up. It'll put you balanced moving in for the gate and keep you from starting that fore/aft seesaw that you're doing throughout the pass.

[GaryWilkinson]

Just watched your video!!

 

I'll give you 2 major things:

 

# 1 when coming into offside 2,4,6 balls you totally look down at the ball

(Check your on side you do NOT look down there.

 

# 2 you do edge change and reach in the same movement. Too early reach = ski not on edge starts to slow too early and falls behind you = break at waist!!

Fix= keep the elbows tight and line into your waist till course width with shoulders back

You'll carry more speed in a much better position for the turn.

[A_B]

http://slalomguru.com/articles.php?article=offside

 

[Tbub]

Thanks to all for the tips. I did move the bindings back one hole and it worked. Feeling a little better on the off-side. Now if I could only keep that stacked position. Once again, thanks for all of the comments.

[skiep]

TDub, As far as the breaking at the waist at 2-4-6 . As soon as you know the ski will clear the buoy(not hit it) look at the next buoy! So when at two ball look at three, four look at five. Keith

[BobF]

While I don't ski to the level of some on here, I will agree wholeheartedly with @skiep. I run a relatively short fin setup and can say that when I break on my offside it is 90% certain that It's due to not controlling my vision and letting my head drop.

[mikegile]

I totally agree with @skiep on looking ahead. You spend too much time focusing on the bouys. Keeping your head up keeps your hips up. As soon as you know you will make it look at the next one - especially on 2-4-6.

 

As for staying stacked try this little tip. Hold your arms out to the side, parallel with the ground. Picture a line that extends forever. As you are skiing, starting with your pull out for the gate, don't let the line touch the water - ever! Pretty impossible to do, but if you are trying it will help the stack position.

 

 

[ToddL]

I'm inclined to agree with @ShaneH. It starts in your position before the gates. But before we go there, take a look at the video again - pause it at any point during the pass. If you were to draw a line along your torso and a line from your front binding to your hips, would those two lines intersect as a single long line? From where they intersect, what is the angle? Ideally, when we are perfectly stacked, there shouldn't be any bend at the waist.

All of these have opportunity for improvement, but the last frame looks almost perfect.

 

So, to help fix this we can look at two areas: Before the gate and during the pass.

 

Before the gate - as soon as you are on top of the water, move your hips forward and up over your front foot's toes. You should be up and on top of the ski. We are not leaning back away from the boat's pull. Rather, we are on top of the ski gliding along on top of the water with as little resistance as possible. Then, when it is time to move outbound to setup for the gates, actively work to ensure this position is maintained. Make a distinct effort to keep your waist locked forward. At the same time, simply rotate your hips to the left and a little lean to the left and you will shoot outbound easier with less effort. As you rise up out of your lean out, focus entirely on keeping those hips up over that front foot and being on top of the ski during the glide. Then, when it is time to turn to the gates, force yourself to stay tall and in this hips over front foot posture. Simply rotate your hips to the right and slightly lean to the right.

Think that the hips have to get to the wakes before your shoulders should.

 

 

Now in the course, as you make your edge change think: Rise the hips up and back forward over the front foot while looking up and down course.

At the finish of the turn think: Don't even start the lean until after your hips have come up under the handle. Or possibly this: don't grab the handle with your free hand until after the hips have come under the handle. Again, you want your hips to lead your body in the direction you want to go.

 

 

[Tdub]

Thanks @ToddL. I like the way you added lines to the stills from the video. Great visual. Thanks. Skiing is coming to a rapid close here in Ohio. The next time out I will re-read your post and work on it. Thanks to all.