Baller DefectiveDave Posted September 9, 2014 Baller Share Posted September 9, 2014 So I'm currently sitting on the shore waiting for a bum ankle to heal up and it looks like I'm not going to be skiing again until mid-November at the earliest (thought I'll probably try to push it and get out there earlier). To make up for my downtime I'm hoping to ski once per weekish over the winter, but it means I have to gear up for the occasion. Around here the water will most likely not freeze, but it can get down into the low 40F range while the air temperature will get into the high 20F range. I've already purchased an engine box heater so I can avoid winterizing the boat constantly. My plan is not to go out and set personal bests during the winter, but rather to work on technique without hurting myself again. Plus it will hopefully put me in a good place to start next season. I know I need a drysuit for when the water gets down into the low 50s and 40s, but what else do I need? Any recommendations on specific equipment that might be useful? Any gloves I can get to keep my grip from locking up in the cold? Any products I can use to help make the drysuit easier to put on? Any help is greatly appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Tim Vaio Posted September 9, 2014 Baller Share Posted September 9, 2014 Dave, Might be worth getting a thin hood for cold days as in cold air your ears can get uncomfortable (Robby has some from Camaro). I would also say that relying on an engine box heater is a good fall back but I am a firm believer in doing a quick block drain after skiing in the winter. That will ensure that if there are power outages that the engine is still safe. I have it down to less than 5 mins to drain the block and put the heat light in. We also find a warm shower or bucket of warm water for your hands after you get out of the water helps. Our water gets down to high 40's in the winter (Dec/Jan) and I have used an aquaskin comfortably and only use the dry suit on really cold days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markchilcutt Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 A warm hat to keep your head dry and protected from the cold air, hot water shower is a must for warming your hands and feet before during and after ski sets, we fill a cooler with hot water and put gloves and boot liners in before skiing. I use the same gloves i always ski with. Think i skied a few times with air in the upper 30's and it wasnt really worth it. Have fun good luck on a speedy recovery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Brady Posted September 9, 2014 Baller Share Posted September 9, 2014 Hey @DefectiveDave. Being from Utah, we are used to skiing in the bitter cold--for months at a time. There are a lot of drysuits that work, and guys like @scotchipman and @Garn can give you their recommendations. I prefer the tight on the bottom, and loose on top type of suits. Many times, I wear a sweater and sweatshirt and for sure always wear long johns on the bottom and I stay pretty warm. The parts that get really cold are my face and head and my hands. There is a remedy for your head. Laurie Liddell has a great neoprene hat that works wonder, but there is nothing for your face that I have found, except for facial hair....it is miserable in 36 to 45 degree water to stop after a pass--it is much like brain freeze over your entire face. For the gloves, I took a pair and put silicone all over the back side of them. They stay good for the set, especially if you don't fall. Chippy literally holds his hands up between passes so they don't even dip in the water. Without the silicone, your hands freeze during your sets, especially because the wind-chill effect takes place. The silicone for me has been my golden ticket. Finally, take a big cooler full of hot water and you can dip your boot liners in it and your feet will stay toasty warm all set! That's about all we cold-water skiers do! Enjoy, and shred it up this winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller DefectiveDave Posted September 9, 2014 Author Baller Share Posted September 9, 2014 @ski32, @markchilcutt, @Brady, Thanks for the information guys! I'll definitely get a neoprene hat/hood and be sure to carry a cooler of hot water, those are both great ideas. I also have no problem growing a winterbeard for the cause! Finally, it does sound like good insurance to quickly drain the block after each outing, so I will definitely do that too. Regarding gloves, has anyone tried wearing the skin-tight rubber surgical gloves under their main gloves? Seems like these would insulate well and keep the water out, but there's a good chance they wouldn't survive a round of slalom. For a drysuit, I think I'm going to get an O'Neill Assault. These seem to be well received and at a good price point, but I'm certainly open to suggestions. Does anyone have any secrets to getting into a drysuit quickly? I've worn a drysuit twice in my entire life and it took me ages to get into and out of them. I'm thinking vaseline to help slip in past the seals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Mrs_MS Posted September 9, 2014 Baller Share Posted September 9, 2014 Dont Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ RichardDoane Posted September 9, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted September 9, 2014 @defectivedave - baby powder on the drysuit seals makes entry much easier, and the neoprene beanies that @ski4xtc was selling are the best money I've spent on winter gear gear, I think the brand is "Mystic", kite-boarding thing I believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Brady Posted September 9, 2014 Baller Share Posted September 9, 2014 @DefectiveDave As far as getting into a drysuit, if you are wearing long johns it is easy as can be. I sometimes leave my socks on and I slip right in. Other than that I would talk with @ShaneH. I know he is a master at quickly getting certain people out of a drysuit super fast!!! Oh to be young and single like him!!!! Bottom line, it is cold and miserable to ski in the winter and your hands will ache for hours afterward as they start to recover from the mind-numbing cold. BUT, it sure as hell beats the alternative of sitting on your ass not skiing. Now as you start skiing in the winter wonderland, your next thread should be "How To Break Through Ice To Get To The Course Without Damaging Your Hull." (As a side note, @scotchipman and I were skiing once early this year when the huge ice drift from the lake was getting closer and closer to shore, and we ended up with about a 200 foot window to free ski. We got off the lake barely in time before it reached the shore. Great times) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller A_B Posted September 9, 2014 Baller Share Posted September 9, 2014 Aside from what @Brady said, FLORIDA!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Brady Posted September 9, 2014 Baller Share Posted September 9, 2014 @AB look at your picture for a minute!!!! Let's see, Frostbite or Alligator bite....uh, yaah right!!!! Give me the cold..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller WBLskier Posted September 9, 2014 Baller Share Posted September 9, 2014 You can buy a Velcro in the back neoprene face mask for downhill skiing that combined with a regular old winter hat works great. Add a pair of ski goggles and you're golden...but might get made fun of a bit. Bring a dry hat and pair of winter gloves for the boat and mid 30's air is almost tolerable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller colo_skier Posted September 9, 2014 Baller Share Posted September 9, 2014 The surgical gloves under your one size larger ski gloves works up to a point. I use the Chola duck hunting gloves once the surgical's don't cut it for the cold though. If you have a heater and shower you will also have to drain those or make it a setup were you can quickly RV antifreeze them using the shower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller DefectiveDave Posted September 9, 2014 Author Baller Share Posted September 9, 2014 Thanks again everybody. I almost have enough information to go on my buying spree! I also found this thread which is really helpful in deciding a drysuit: http://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/7183/what-drysuit-are-you-using-in-the-winter I'm leaning towards the wylie or adrenaline baggy now rather than the assault based on the outcome of that thread. I'm also might consider the camaro icetec 4mm semi-dry, but that one is a long shot as I want the option to wear something warm under the drysuit. If it is useful to others, I was also able to find the hoods from mystic and camaro here: http://www.mysticboarding.com/products/waterwear-accessories/hoods http://www.camaro.at/en/surfen/westen_hauben_index.php I'm not sure who Laurie Liddell is, but I would love to support a member of the community if possible. Someone PM me contact info if applicable. Regarding boots, it's a great idea to keep the liners warm in a hot water cooler. I might have to switch it up for the winter and get an r-style rear. That way I at least have a liner I can keep warm for my rear foot. Additionally, thin "waterproof" socks might also be an option to help keep feet warmer for longer: http://www.sealskinz.com/US/watersports/ke691-thin-ankle-length-sock.html These will leak through the top in submerged applications, but it will greatly limit the turnover rate of the water near the foot. With respect to gloves I've got some time to figure those out so I will do some experiments in November to find out what works best (before it gets too cold). I'll start with the suggestions of @Brady and @markchilcutt. At this rate I'm going to be so decked out that I might as well start strapping on some snow skiing equipment to anything left uncovered as @WBLskier suggested! @AB, I am hoping to make it to Florida over the winter for some coaching! @colo_skier, Are those the thin gore-tex duck hunting gloves? Also, I don't have a heater or shower, so that simplifies things somewhat. However, it might make it a bit harder to find a ski partner/driver! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Zman Posted September 9, 2014 Baller Share Posted September 9, 2014 Oh now @Brady - name a skier who ever got hurt by a gator, and many of us in the south ski among plenty of gators all the time. Not to say it couldn't happen.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller colo_skier Posted September 9, 2014 Baller Share Posted September 9, 2014 No they are thick neoprene. Others say they can't ski with them. I seem to be able to and as you said I am not trying to get a PB. I may have the name wrong and am unable to find them on-line but they are something like this: http://www.rei.com/product/867672/camaro-seamless-paddling-gloves-2013-closeout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted September 9, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted September 9, 2014 I will take the Gator any time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller DefectiveDave Posted September 9, 2014 Author Baller Share Posted September 9, 2014 We might not be safe anywhere. http://www.csindy.com/binary/c930/1347483471-imag027.jpeg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Zman Posted September 9, 2014 Baller Share Posted September 9, 2014 Same as @MS. Never held off skiing because of gators - although one time I did not drop at one end because there were just too many gator heads showing, big ones too. I had the driver spin me on that day. But, after taking crap from him for spinning me, I dropped his ass when it was his turn to ski. He cussed me out good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller colo_skier Posted September 9, 2014 Baller Share Posted September 9, 2014 It seems they don't make them anymore. http://www.opticsplanet.com/chota-neo-fleece-glove.html I will have to find something similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted September 9, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted September 9, 2014 I would rather spin in Gator water than sit down in freezing water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller colo_skier Posted September 9, 2014 Baller Share Posted September 9, 2014 That looks like the gator sanctuary outside of Alamosa in Southern Colorado. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Brady Posted September 9, 2014 Baller Share Posted September 9, 2014 @Zman @MS Here you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller DefectiveDave Posted September 9, 2014 Author Baller Share Posted September 9, 2014 @colo_skier, You are correct sir, but that defeats the fun! Getting back on topic, I'll have to play around with gloves once I get back out on the water in November. It looks like there are plenty of options and some good suggestions on this thread. I'll probably start off with the surgical gloves and upgrade if it becomes necessary. Weather around these parts doesn't get too extreme. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashman Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Haha @brady you're funny. "I was coming around 5 ball when something grabbed the back of my ski and pulled me down" is that the first "out the back"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller A_B Posted September 10, 2014 Baller Share Posted September 10, 2014 For sure his butt was dragging coming out of the turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Garn Posted September 10, 2014 Baller Share Posted September 10, 2014 All these suggestions that everyone has suggested about head, hands, face, etc. are really good. As far as a drysuit, I swear by my Adrenaline. I just don't think you can beat it for the money. They stand behind their product. And they LAST!! I have had mine for about 7 or 8 years now and I still haven 't had any rips in the seals are have had any need to replace them. I also prefer the all baggy drysuit. You can determine how much insulation you want to wear underneath it. Garn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Garn Posted September 10, 2014 Baller Share Posted September 10, 2014 There does come a point when it isn't worth it. We skied on January 31st when we had to drive up and down to break the ice away. It was about 40 degrees and the water ... I'm not sure but most of the lake was frozen. A reporter came with us and we actually ended up being on the nightly news that night. But honestly, it was just to cold. I went for bragging rights and to be on the news. But I won't go again when it is that cold. Its just not fun and you open yourself up to injuries because your body and muscles aren't able to warm up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Brady Posted September 10, 2014 Baller Share Posted September 10, 2014 @Garn I gave you an awesome on your post above, but I may now take it away!!! Shame on you!!!! It is ALWAYS worth it. This year has been the year from hell for me, and about the only thing keeping me going is the thought of being back on the water with you and chippy. It is always worth it to ski my friend!! And to prove it, I will ski in my undies this winter while it is snowing just to prove my point that skiing beats any activity on this planet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller SkiJay Posted September 10, 2014 Baller Share Posted September 10, 2014 @DefectiveDave You asked if there are any products that can make a drysuit any easier to put on. Yes there is. If you put plastic grocery bags on you hands and feet, your drysuit or heavy wetsuit will slip right on. Getting out of the stupid suit when you are cold and tired is another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Aitken Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Gator bite? Would that mean a score of 4.5 or 5 or re ride? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller SkiJay Posted September 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted September 11, 2014 What's really wrong with these pictures taken today isn't the snow, it's that it is still SUMMER! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller SkiJay Posted September 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted September 11, 2014 I hear Florida is all hot and sticky right now @scotchipman. Besides, how could I pass up such a golden opportunity to work up a good slush setup! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Brady Posted September 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted September 11, 2014 @SkiJay, did you run intermediate or monsoon tires on your ski with all that wet weather, or did you stay with the regular soft tires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Garn Posted September 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted September 11, 2014 @Brady, you're a nut! But I"m gonna hold you to the undies thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller SkiJay Posted September 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted September 11, 2014 Nothing soft enough for these temps @Brady =) Pretty interesting how firm the water is though, and the change to Florida soup next week should be educational too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ DW Posted September 11, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted September 11, 2014 Instead of grocery bags, newspaper bags work great on the feet since they are pretty narrow and cylindrical. Of course most people probably don't even remember what those are and maybe have never seen one! There are some dry scuba diving gloves that work pretty well for really cold days. Not the grip of standard ski gloves but will work and keep the fingers from frostbite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller DefectiveDave Posted September 11, 2014 Author Baller Share Posted September 11, 2014 @skibrain, @Garn, @SkiJay, @scotchipman, @DW, @Brady, @ski38, @markchilcutt, @colo_skier, At this point I think I've speced out my gear. I'm going with: - Adrenaline drysuit (can't hear enough good things about them and the company) - Camaro 2mm Titanium (for before the COLD weather hits and the spring) - Seal Saver and plastic bags - Reflex R-Style Rear - New Bigger Cooler! (my little 8 quart coleman just isn't going to cut it) - Big boxes of Blue Nitrile and Vinyl skintight gloves for liners - Neoprene hoody (something like what @SkiJay has, but I haven't found anything from a site sponsor yet) - Camaro Titanium Thermo 3mm gloves (I haven't seen anyone review these but they seem promising and comparable to some of the duck hunting/scuba gloves people have mentioned, but with abrasion resistance) I didn't think I could afford both a wetsuit and drysuit, but it looks like they're both very reasonably priced. And there goes my toy budget for the winter! Does anyone know if the Camaro Blacktec available from Performance Ski/Surf and Robby is comparable to the Camaro Titanium? They don't appear to carry the titanium any longer in anything thicker than 0.5mm. Also, any sponsors I can get the Adrenaline drysuit or a neoprene hoody from? I heard something about a Laurie Liddell, but I don't know who that is. Thank you everyone for so much help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller SkiJay Posted September 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted September 11, 2014 @DefectiveDave Camero makes hoods. Otherwise, just google kayak neoprene hood images and go from there. The flaired neck is a nice feature. If you leave it outside your wet/dry suit, but under your vest, you won't get any water on your neck, especially that icy little rooster-tail that slaps you in the back of the neck every time you drop into the water at the end of each pass. http://www.camaro.at/images/produkte/big/234_99.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller DefectiveDave Posted September 11, 2014 Author Baller Share Posted September 11, 2014 Thanks @SkiJay! I just realized I can also install a hot shower into my boat in order to fill the cooler and save some trouble. http://www.bakesonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=2579 Does anyone else use these or have made their own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Brady Posted September 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted September 11, 2014 @DefectiveDave you forgot the last component to make your winter skiing complete. There is a substance you can put into your body that literally warms you from the inside out. It also makes your ski outing all the better. Might I suggest a nice rum!!! I believe there is a company that supports ballers with their product! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashman Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 I have one on mine- Nice to have when it's really cold. I just kind of spray my hands and feet down with it to get some feeling back in them after a cold ski. I think the water skis better when it's cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller colo_skier Posted September 12, 2014 Baller Share Posted September 12, 2014 @DefectiveDave I installed my own system and followed the directions from this thread http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/index.php?/page/articles.html/_/winterization-modification-r7 on themalibucrew.com (you may have to become a member to see this)about showers and winterizing that just make it all so easy to do. It's really easy to do and I purchased all the items needed from camping world and home depot. Just a note on the Camaros. I have the 1.0 m black_tec full wetsuit and have used it down to 42 degree water. The thickness of the suit is not really what keeps you warm. It is the second skin fit that for me makes it work. I hopefully will never have to go back to a drysuit since the "wetsuit" keeps me warmer. My advice would be to buy the thinner Camaro and once you try it forget the drysuit purchase. I would not have believed it but Robbi said try it and if it doesn't work then send it back. In reality that's the only way these products are going to sell since until you try it you will always be thinking thicker is better. I hate to admit it but @Horton and was right about these. I have to thank @chuck_Dickey for introducing them to me originally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller colo_skier Posted September 12, 2014 Baller Share Posted September 12, 2014 @scotchipman I am unable to comment on the restrictions of a camaro wet suit versus a full baggy dry suit. I will however comment on my assault(?) oniel that is baggy on top and thick neoprene on the bottom half. The assault is a lot more bulky on top and the neo is way thicker and thus restrictive than the camaro wet suit. Especially since you have to layer under the oniel material part to keep warm. With the camaro it feels just like regular skiing. I agree with the neo hood being an absolute pain. I use the neo beanie and it is way nicer to ski with. BTW I am not associated with Camaro in any way. I was just so surprised at how well their products work and so amazed at how they do not follow any of the traditional wetsuit stereotypes that I am offering my experience as a guide to others. As @DefectiveDave was going to get both I was just suggesting that I would buy the wet suit first and then figure out if you really need the dry suit. His experience would be insightful for others that may be thinking about cold water skiing. Scot I also think that you and I are both skiing in the same sort of temperature waters till the water gets solid. Bottom line anything to increase the season is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted September 12, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted September 12, 2014 @Brady Cold water sucks but if I know I can get to @Snowbird as soon as it cools down, I could live with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller DefectiveDave Posted September 12, 2014 Author Baller Share Posted September 12, 2014 @Brady, I'm installing the bar under the passenger seat with next springs toy budget! @colo_skier and @scotchipman, Regarding the hood, I'm assuming you guys don't like a hood that covers the ears because you can't hear when sitting in the water? Whereas with a beanie you can uncover your ears after a pass? My thought is that I might get something like @SkiJay has and cut a slit around the ears, something like this: That way I still have the neckguard, but I can easily pull the hood away from my ear to hear. Then when I'm heading into and through the course it still functions to shield the ear from the wind (in theory at least). It also wouldn't as exert much pressure on the ear or give me that disembodied feeling when everything sounds muffled. With respect to the wet and dry suit, I've heard great things about both Camaro and Adrenaline. At the moment, I only have a 20 year old farmer john wetsuit which fits very loosely. In fact it provides almost no barrier to the water infiltrating and I don't really feel any warmer in the water when wearing it. It does however provide a windshield when skiing. I think I can use the Camaro wetsuit in the early to late fall when the drysuit might be a bit of overkill. The wetsuit should be easier to get on and off, so it's a convenience thing more so than a performance consideration. Then once the temp drops in the winter months I fully intend to switch to an Adrenaline drysuit to stay warm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashman Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Just finished up a session breaking in the camaro 2 mil full suit. From a skiability standpoint I prefer it over my oneil boost baggy suit and far more than my previous cheap neoprene full wetsuit. Water 60 air 50s so not that cold yet but obviously I was perfectly warm in the camaro. We will see what happens as the water gets colder but I'm going to stay in the camaro as long as I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller DefectiveDave Posted October 16, 2014 Author Baller Share Posted October 16, 2014 Got the 2mm Camaro Blacktec and finally got to ski with it today. Water was 69F while air was 64F, but boy was I toasty. I only have one complaint, on several occasions rounding my offside turn I shot a crapload of water up my rear leg into the wetsuit. The water is still pretty warm but man that surprised me, plus I felt like I was carrying around a swollen leg for the rest of the set. Is that normal or is it indicative of terrible form (sorry no video today)? Also, anyone have a solution for this like a clamp? I use an RTP, so there's no binder to prevent the water from going up the ankle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller colo_skier Posted October 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted October 17, 2014 Both @Chuck_Dickey and I posted in another thread that we use the dry suit ankle straps to stop this from happening. Works really well unless you face plant and get a lot of water down the neck. Then the strap doesn't let the water our. Moral of the story don't crash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller DefectiveDave Posted October 17, 2014 Author Baller Share Posted October 17, 2014 Thanks @colo_skier. Looks like you're talking about this thread: http://ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/comment/123938 Sorry, I didn't find it in my cursory search. What exactly do you mean by drysuit ankle straps? Google is being less than helpful, but I might not be looking for the right keyword. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller colo_skier Posted October 17, 2014 Baller Share Posted October 17, 2014 Thats the one. When you buy a dry suit they include 2 ankle straps that are velcro straps that loop around the bottom of the leggings to stop them from rolling up. Don't know were you can get them seperately. You can get strips of wide Velcro at Home depot and make your own also, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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