Random observations about gate height

[Razorskier1]

From the start of this season I committed myself to being higher on the boat at turn in - to the point of being well outside my traditional comfort zone. My thinking was (a) that's what everybody tells you, and (b) it would allow me a larger work zone, as Chet likes to call it, between the turn in and the first wake. Both of these are true, and by sticking with that approach I skied better and more consistently this year than I ever have before.

 

Fast forward to two weeks ago where because of something we were working on, Andy wanted me to start narrower and then after fixing the issue, get wide again. This gave me an opportunity to see the differences quite clearly. What I found was this. First, without width at the gate I was working harder to generate speed, generating it later, and felt fast at the ball. Second, my scores started to suck (which hasn't happened all summer). Unfortunately, I didn't put 2 and 2 together until this morning.

 

Skied two sets and the first was fine, didn't miss any passes, ran a 28, three 32s and seven 35s. Problem was I felt like I was running later and with more downcourse speed than I should. Ran a second set and through the first handful of passes felt the same. Then it hit me -- I needed to get my *ss up on the boat! Skied four 32s at the end of the set with that approach. All of the sudden I was early, creating tons of space, and was in control and tight lined out of the ball.

 

So I started thinking. I still believe what I said at the start -- it creates a better work zone, building speed in the right place. However, a second thing occurred to me that many of you already probably know. By starting wider I just plain had more angle, and that angle was easier to maintain off the second wake, creating the space I was missing the last 10 days or so. Nice to find my spot back -- too bad the weather in MN is now officially turning to crap!

[Skoot1123]

Good reminder for us. Thanks! I too have noticed this season that higher on the boat gives you more work zone area for your gate shot. One key for me was not turning in for the gate while the line was getting loaded by the boat. The turn in without a "positive" feel on it takes a little getting used to!

[The_MS]

It also give you time to think.

[Steven_Haines]

And puts you at "in course" speed.

[ColeGiacopuzzi]

Very good point! Super important thing to remember that helps tremendously! whenever I watch people ski that's the first thing that i see, and most important is the gate, your first movement into the course is going to translate how your pass is going to be! Either fast, narrow, or wide and early! That all depends on how wide you are on the boat. The reason we start wide is, your turn in is started from a wide point on the boat to create angle and let the ski turn underneath you but not loading the rope and by the time you have created angle your mid whitewater and then you start the pull.

[MrJones]

As I learn more about the gate, I am more and more convinced it is about load control. I believe wider is better, but if you are wide it requires even more patience to avoid loading too early. I will take narrow with controlled load over wide and early load every time. Especially at 38 and beyond.

[Razorskier1]

@MrJones -- I agree on the load control question. My objective is to get very high, and then "connect but don't load" from there. I find that just a connection will generate plenty of speed to kick me off the wakes and out to buoy width. 38 is an interesting line for me. For years I have run it with a narrower gate with some success. I did that for the reason you cite -- I was worried about controlling load and speed. When it worked, it worked great, but was tough for me to replicate. Getting up high on the boat scared me, because I figured I'd have way to much speed if I started that high. For me I found the opposite. If I start way high on the boat, I load less, generate speed to the first wake, and then feel wide and slow at the ball. Conversely, if I start narrower, I find that I feel compelled to generate more load to get to speed, and that I carry that speed/load too far off the second wake, making me feel fast and narrow. Still, it remains difficult for me to reconcile that what feels more uncomfortable to me, which is being high on the boat for turn in, actually makes me feel slower and more in control after the second wake. I think this is because I'm using Chet's "work zone" to generate my speed in what turns out to be the right place for me. This sport would be SO much easier if there were one right way that worked for all of us!!!

[mwetskier]

i believe the key to @MrJones patient turn in from wider is to have sufficient speed at the moment of turning in. i've had coaches emphasize matching the boat speed when you turn in but i have found theres more to it than just matching the boat. i can match the boat speed by going out hard and being faster than the boat early on followed by slowing down to boat speed during the glide. * or * i can match the boat speed by cruising out to width with gradually increasing power until i reach boat speed but still in acceleration mode about the time i need to turn in.

 

the first way doesnt work as well for me because its hard to not load the rope too early but the second way seems better because it lets me turn in from momentum that isnt already decaying. so i seem to have a much easier time getting the ski fully rotated under the line and i can ski into a stacked pull much closer to the wake which helps me carry speed out bound to a wider earlier 1 ball.

[gator1]

@MrJones‌ 38 gates have confounded me forever. Some days no biggy, other days not even remotely possible. I accept you know what you are talking about, but I don't understand.

 

Why does loading early make for a bad gate? Provided I get the ski pivoted all the way before the hook up it seems earlier the better?

[ColeGiacopuzzi]

@gator1‌ if your on a wide point on the boat and turn in and pull at the same time you load the rope early, which means your loading for longer, and it's harder to slow down because you have all this speed generated! So if you turn in from a wide point and wait a second until you have created angle then pull that's what you shoot for, you'll find yourself wider and slower until 1!

[Razorskier1]

I do better to match boat speed and turn in rather than be in slowing mode before turn in. Speed issue to me is where is your speed. Acceleration between turn in and first wake is highly desirable. Acceleration after the second wake, not so much.

[colo_skier]

@Razorskier1 You last post about speed and were is something one of the guys at our lake has found to be important. He was trying to get easier 38's so that taking on 39's could be possible. In watching him I felt that he needed more speed prior to the wakes thus allowing him to have more time to "set-up" for the 1 ball. To work this he came more up on the boat and generated acceleration earlier in his turn-in. This gave him better angle and more space prior to the 1 ball. This approach has enabled him to get 2/3rds of the way through a 39 off pass (his PB) without the "catch up" skiing technique. I myself cannot do anything like it but it sure is nice to see someone ski that length in complete control.

[gator1]

Those last 3 posts seem contradictory to me.

[Horton]

I think the bottom line is your speed, load and angle at the center line. Less load but more speed and angle is the key.

 

Gate turn in width and intensity is much more critical on some skis and less on others. When I rode Nano One all I had to do was get wide and go to the right hard (dive bomb). When I rode the O'Brien g5 I had to very much arc in gradually from wide. On the Warp it is less critical than the O'Brien but more critical than the Goode. My point in saying this is that each of us experiences this differently. In terms of perception I think it is a massive difference between skis.The single biggest thing I change when I change these is my gate pull out and turn in.

[Horton]

Mmmmmm the G5 taught me the gate I think I should do on all skis.

[gator1]

@Horton‌ You left out the only one I care about...What'd you have to do on the Prophecy?

 

And it seems like less load and more angle and speed at the rooster is the goal.

 

So that seems like the wider you are when you can get the line loaded, provided you have pivoted the ski first, and not stood on your back foot, and can handle the load without losing angle or coming back onto the rear foot, the better.

 

That means you can get to the rooster with mainly centripedal force on the rope, since you have already reached "terminal" velocity, the ski can be off edge and you can be up on the front, which all minimize drag and lets you use the speed to glide out before you start slowing down.

 

The only thing I can figure out is some skis/skiers are more able to pivot quickly from wide without getting stuck on the back foot, or getting pulled off the edge, while other combinations of ski/skier are more able to hammer the pull from whitewater to rooster.

 

Maybe like there is a T1 and a T2 for pullers and turners. Maybe there is an optimum pivot/load rate for each ski/skier combo, and the good guys figure that out. While my optimum appears to be more related to whether I had a good crap that morning and what phase the moon is in.

 

I did note that the top end of the big dawg at broho all seem to pivot and load in the blink of an eye.

[GaryWilkinson]

We had KC at the site this week and at each of our first sets with him we spent almost the whole set talking about getting high on the boat.

 

To paraphrase KC, getting high and wide does a few things that are desirable on entry, first it allows you to make a turn at course width that is really a set up turn for 2, 4 and 6 ball. (Especially the 2 ball)

 

Second and more importantly it allows you enough time to turn smoothly, progressively, and with angle and intensity peaking behind the boat when it is most powerful and efficient. Going to hard in the cut for 1 ball too early and not all the way wide will wake the sleeping beast that is ZeroOff! Thus giving gas and speed at a very bad time in the course- before 1 ball.

 

If the timing and width is right, you come into 1ball with correct speed, stance, preparedness and especially line tension. If speed is late on turn in, we lose line tension and thus a very important mechanical point of balance to be able to exit the turn well.

 

So we all changed our setup to the KC/Chet method with great results. Pierre # 1 ran 8 passes in a row of -32 off and Pierre #2 ran -35 off smoother than he ran -28 earlier in the week.

 

So this thinking is really paying off. And makes sense, at least for us this week.

 

Thanks KC!

 

 

[RichardDoane]

@razorskier1 - you were right on in your advice, I skied Saturday am with @robscholl-OF‌ and remembered to get up on the boat where I belonged, having a terrific second set, and then spent my third set just practicing entry gates at -39

[Razorskier1]

@richarddoane -- glad it worked! Sometimes it is harder to convince myself to do it as the line gets shorter -- I chicken out. Thing is, it matters even more at shortline, so I just have to get up there and roll! Of course it was 36 degrees when I skied this morning, so I did not do anything short!

[jhughes]

I've said this before but every time I try to get extra width (albeit at 22 and 28), I overrun the boat and end up hitting slack in the turn-in and totally flub my timing as I watch the boat whizz through the gates and my pass is instantly over at 1 with a slick hit/management session through the gates. I go as wide as I can with good tension and something to turn in on, which is still wider than 2/4/6 FWIW. If you're supposed to turn in on slack rope, I lack the skill to do it for sure. On our site the boat can still be settling in (either slowing or accelerating) past the greens depending on the driver and alignment of the moons so consistent wide pullouts are very tough.

[RazorRoss3]

In an ideal world I am not quite but very close to perpendicular to the boat at my gate width and have the timing so that I am at boat speed or a little above with bend (not slack) in the line which allows my ski to finish setting angle as the line connects and it sets up perfectly almost every time.

I can I derstand how a short set up site would affect that however.

[SkiJay]

@jhughes It sounds like when you go for extra width, you may be pulling too hard for too long. The pull-out is kind of the opposite of a progressive pull into the first wake. The pullout should start with a solid short lean then rather than maintaining that lean for longer to get wider, or popping up into the glide, it's best to roll up into the glide slowly. The whole time you are slowly standing up, you are still on your outbound edge generating width. And when you reach the apex of the glide, you should still have some tension on the line, so you'll still be lightly on your outbound cutting edge--right up to your turn-in point. Presto, no slack.

[jhughes]

@SkiJay thanks, that's a new way of looking at it for me.

[Horton]

@jhughes‌ there are a mix of skill levels in this conversation. At 22 or 28 off if you are outside of 2/4/6 I would say you're wide enough. getting much wider then that is going to cause you issues.

 

[Razorskier1]

I do agree with @SkiJay on the glide. I have to glide on the edge and maintain tension and speed -- makes everything so much better for me personally.