Zero Off and Elbow Problems

[MrB]

The last month I've skied on a friends boat with Zero Off instead of my Perfect Pass Classic boat. My elbows kill me. Two things where drastically different. 1) We spin after each pass and he must pull the throttle back to avoid Zero Off from trying to maintain speed. Then after the turn he let Zero Off take over and the acceleration from maybe 28 to 32 killed me in the setup. 2) In the course there is constant acceleration through out the pass, this is fine but plays hell with the elbows.

IS THIS WHY THERE SEEMS TO BE MORE ELBOW PROBLEMS??

[mwetskier]

sore elbows are almost always the result of trying to manage rope pressure with bent arms. your either in pulling slack with bent arms until the boat hits you or your trying to increase your pulling force by doing what is essentially a biceps curl against a load that your arms cant take. learn to have straight arms whenever there is load on the rope.

 

a third cause of sore elbows can be from gripping the handle too tight. 2 ways to fix that are clincher style gloves and or learning to hold the handle in your curled fingertips instead of in a closed fist death grip.

[GOODESkier]

Bet it is mostly if not all in the turn around. If your buddy is slowing way down past the engagement point, your probably being drug, sinking, and yanking on your arms and back to stay up in the turns. When I driver pulls way back to get off the engagement point, sometimes they are unaware of how slow the boat is really going. Also,make some practice driving passes and see if you can maintain the speed without ZO taking control, and then there won't be much of an acceleration needed to get to the engagement point again.

 

I LOVE DRIVERS THAT ARE SEAMLESSLY up to speed as they exit the island or finish the turn! Something I am still working on doing as a driver from site to site.

[Drago]

There is not a constant acceleration throughout the pass, there just isn't a deceleration throughout the pass as with PP. My guess is the hookup is more immediate compared to PP

[Wish]

I own PP classic. Ski ZO at tournaments. No differance in scores and no differance in physical state with the ZO letter/number that works for me and my skiing style. To me it has everything to do with the letter/number combination that feels best to you within ZO. You must go through all of them until you find the one that "feels" the best. Then get back to us and let us know if the pain has gone away. My guess is that it will.

[swerveit]

@mrb Interesting, having had my share of elbow pain and cortisone injection's I may be able to shed a little light,

 

out of interest:

- which elbow hurts?

- where does it hurt, inside or out ? (closest to the ribs = inside)

- what foot forward are you?

- with your grip, what handle is on top?

- which direction does the driver turn at the end of the lake?

- did you take your standard handle to the new lake?

- did you take your standard rope to the new lake?

[MrB]

@mwetskier, @Drago, @Wish, @GOODESkier Yes you are all correct. I like my gloves so I'll try my finger tips and lighter grip. I'll play with letters and numbers on ZO. So far I've used A2 and B2, prefer A2. I'll choose more combinations. My hookup was more sever when I was on a Strada so I switched to D3 Fusion, much better. I was fine all year until the last month on Zero Off this Fall. I worked every day during the winter months with P/T for the elbow, it was gone by spring. More P/T this winter.

[MrB]

@swerveit Right elbow, inside (golfer elbow), right foot foreword, Right hand on top, Right turns, Same handle and Rope. Thx.

[klindy]

You might also try getting another handle which is slightly bigger or smaller. Varying the size of the handle can help with grip, forearm and elbow soreness.

 

I have two sizes and while I prefer one size I'll occasionally mix in a slightly larger diameter handle every few practice sets.

[Deanoski]

a bent handle will also help your problem. I when to a bent handle two years ago and no more elbow pain

[Ed_Obermeier]

Get one of these and use it regularly.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Hygenic-Thera-band-Flexbar-Heavy-Blue/dp/B000X9R7AO/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1416180554&sr=8-7&keywords=thera+band+flex+bar

 

Helped me solve my elbow tendonitis issues and way cheaper than PT.

[swerveit]

@MrB

 

summary:

Right elbow, inside (golfer elbow),

right foot foreword,

Right hand on top,

Right turns,

Same handle and Rope.

 

I dont believe its PP-ZO related, however the settings may help or compound the issue.

 

Observation:

firstly you are a righty, your left hand should be on the top. Theres a handful of skiers that ski well with a reverse grip, on the whole a switched grip will help you out. took me about 3 months but it made a huge difference!

This will help with balancing your off side and behind the boat - (i also had to switch my grip) but this is a different subject.

 

Some ideas that may help: (through my own trial and error in golfers elbow)

 

the fact your spinning right, your likely to engage more bicep & forearm which causes golfers elbow. Check your gloves and hands - ideally you want to engage your fingers. imagine rock climbing, you can hang from a rock with just your fingers for a long time. the minute you engage your biceps you will burn energy/strength.

 

1. on dry land put your hands into a ski grip – draw a line through your fingers/grip. You will see its curved, if you have a broad chest this curve is even more bent. If you use a straight handle the pressure goes through your elbow trying to straighten, and the tendon gets raw. get a curved handle! Also insure its a good fit, personally I go for a size the fits my fingers with gloves on.

2. Water start with both knuckles up, this will stop you engaging your bicep/forearm, try to have a loose grip. Curved fingers – not white knuckles

3. Get a good handle and glove combo that maximises grip! I personally use Masterline custom and Obrien elite glove, But try them all out. I like a tacky sensation that allows me minimum tension through my hands.

4. Keep your rope new! If your rope is all stretched out and your getting late and you take a big hit out of the ball that energy is going to come straight out of your arms, shoulders and back! If you have a well kept line allot of the energy will be taken out, dampened before your poor body takes the hit. Bungee cord vs a cable – if your car was being towed which one would you prefer?

5. Check your weight – power to weight ratio is critical. (I had to loose a lot of weight) it will stop a lot of aches and pains.

6. check your grip on your pull out, if you have a good kit set up you should only be engaging your fingers. if you watch rock climbers hanging from fingers they can stay there for ages, through technique. try to avoid making a fist around your handle.

 

 

Try stretch and massage your arm, yes I know it kills (“golfer” elbow is such an understated name for it…its agony)

 

hope the above helps, peace out.

[Chef23]

@swerveit the way I read your instructions regarding how to hold the handle is the reverse of my understanding. A RFF skier would have their right palm down and a LFF would have left palm down. Maybe I just didn't understand the way you said it. You are correct that some successful skiers ski with a reverse grip for example April Coble Eller is RFF and skis left palm down but that is the exception rather than the rule.

 

[MISkier]

@Chef23, your understanding of grip orientation associated to foot orientation is the same as mine.

[klindy]

LFF hold the handle like a right handed baseball batter would hold the bat. RFF hold it like a left handed batter.

[mwetskier]

' hand on top ' is an ambiguous way to describe the grip. does it mean if you position the handle vertically your talking about the hand that is highest on the handle -or does it mean if the handle is horizontal your talking about the hand thats palm down? without any information other than you hold the handle with your ' right hand on top ' it could be either way which is why i prefer the right handed or left handed batter type description.

[A_B]

If you are rff, your right index finger should be below your left hand little finger. Bent handle, get two different diameters and rotate their use. Get the flex bar and use as outlined on their YouTube video for golfers elbow. Get a Bandit strap and use it all day and while skiing. Immobilizing the tendon with the strap helps it heal faster. Use this stretch several times a day.

 

 

[swerveit]

RFF = left hand on top or knuckles facing down..

[MISkier]

@swerveit,

 

This is my understanding of handle grip associated to foot orientation:

 

LFF:

 

 

 

RFF:

 

 

[jonnyski2]

MISkier is right on !

[MrB]

Wow you guys are amazing. You can tell it's winter when @MISkier is taking pictures and demonstrating handle grip. I'm RFF and I hold the handle wrong. Maybe next spring I'll practice the correct grip.

[Wish]

You all know he leaned on that thing till he heard the wood railing make that cracking sound.....then quickly ran away with the rope in hand as though nothing happened. But that does make for a good reference.

[jimbrake]

@MISkier‌ - that's a great idea, but that paper isn't going to stick once it gets wet. You better just right that right on your handle guard.

[jimbrake]

right = write

[MISkier]

@Wish,

 

My wife took the picture with the camera over my shoulder. First words she said were, "Don't break the banister."

 

@MrB,

 

You'll notice those pictures are indoors, not standing on the dock. Snow here today.

[Drago]

You may notice LFF's that jump have a "wrong" grip

[mwetskier]

@jimbrake -next step is to label all your shoes with ' tgif '. (toes go in first)