Baller WallyGater Posted November 25, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 25, 2014 Are there any alternative options to a SPEEDFIN DEPTH GAUGE like the one schnitzskis.com sells for $39.95? Call me cheap but it's hard to see how this little piece of aluminum is worth $40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller A_B Posted November 25, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 25, 2014 There is, it is called the EZ Fin Tool. I have had both and the EZ also helps on DFT if you want to use it like that. About the same cost. If you are a fin tweaker, the $30 vs. taking the wing off every time you want to get a good depth measurement is well worth it in my opinion. Just don't lose it in the lake like I did. A thin strip of adhesive backed foam would have saved me on the Schnitz tool.... http://vidkingdom.net/content/view/57/84/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller SkiJay Posted November 25, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 25, 2014 Another option is the D3 wing gauge set. Again, it's $40. Of the three options, I like Schniz's best. http://www.d3skis.com/product-p/6-wing-angle-gauge-set.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ToddL Posted November 25, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 25, 2014 Regardless of the make/model - a piece of aluminum is not expensive... ensuring that it is cut to exactly 2" down to +/- 0.0005" precision is where the cost comes from. We see fin settings in thousands of an inch. You don't want a gap tool to be any less precise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller SkiRV Posted November 25, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 25, 2014 Saw this on eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/Waterski-Fin-Gauge-HO-D3-Goode-Elite-Connely-/320931203938?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab8fd8b62 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller SkiJay Posted November 25, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 25, 2014 In the "we measure fin settings in thousandths of an inch" department, my issue with the Fin Aid is that it is quite a bit thicker than all caliper heads. The concave shape of the ski base will cause the Fin Aid to sit further up the fin than a caliper would with the wing removed. The Schnitz and EZ Fin tool are both the same thickness as most caliper heads which negates this effect. So the Fin Aid is a good price, and a solidly built piece, but the measurements it produces will need to be converted for accurate number sharing purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ lpskier Posted November 26, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted November 26, 2014 So, to save forty bucks (or thirty), take the wing off. It sounds so..... simple. Lpskier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mwetskier Posted November 26, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 26, 2014 @SkiJay -you can fix that with a file. just narrow down the edge that touches the tunnel by filing a bevel on it until what remains of the flat edge is the same thickness as your caliper head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller WallyGater Posted November 26, 2014 Author Baller Share Posted November 26, 2014 Simple enough to take the wing off. For convenience and consistency though, guess I'll pony up the $ and eliminate any potential wing movement when experimenting with depth. I may try rolling off the edge lightly with a file -although, I'd say my skiing is probably less consistent than the ~ .005 or so difference that may make... Appreciate the feedback! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skialex Posted November 26, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 26, 2014 @SkiJay you are right, I have both easy fin and Schnitz tool but it only takes a minute to take the wing off and a couple of minutes to put it back on, so I use the speed tools only when in a hurry and usually not on my fin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted November 26, 2014 Administrators Share Posted November 26, 2014 Unless you are useing a fixed wing like SS sells you need to reset you angle after any adjustments anyway Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Become a Supporting Member or make a One-time Donation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller SkiJay Posted November 26, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 26, 2014 @WallyGater I'm not sure if if misunderstood your post, but just in case; the only fin change that doesn't require a wing angle reset is DFT. Any depth or length change will affect wing angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mwetskier Posted November 26, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 26, 2014 @SkiJay -i think unless your front and back set screws just happen to be at the exact same height adjusting the dft will ramp the fin up or down in the fin slot and that will affect both depth and length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BRY Posted November 26, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 26, 2014 I find the advantage to these is when I want to check settings but don't want to move anything. Say before a tournament or ski school it's good to know settings didn't get bumped by TSA, baggage handlers or me stuffing it in/out of the car. Particularly at Regional's or National's where it really hurts to blow your first set due to messed up settings, makes $40 seem cheap. Sure, could take wing off but that's changing something. Once I get my settings I don't want to move anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller SkiJay Posted November 26, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 26, 2014 That's correct @mwetskier & @Horton, DFT adjustments will also change FL and FD . . . but the front and back of the fin will ramp in and out of the ski at the same rate. Wing angle will remain the same in this one case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skialex Posted November 26, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 26, 2014 When I want to be sure that my fin hasn't move and I'm in a hurry I measure length, DFT and use an angle gauge to check the wing (which tells me that depth is right too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skialex Posted November 26, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 26, 2014 Actually eye inspection and a 9.5 gauge is all I need when I'm on the dock to ensure that me fin hasn't move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted November 26, 2014 Administrators Share Posted November 26, 2014 If the fin is resting on set screws and you move DFT => length and or depth almost always change. Unless the surface where the set screw meets the fin is exactly parallel to the fin block something is going to get moved. Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Become a Supporting Member or make a One-time Donation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted November 26, 2014 Administrators Share Posted November 26, 2014 @SkiJay your above comment makes sense theoretically but in the real world nothing really works that perfectly Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Become a Supporting Member or make a One-time Donation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller SkiJay Posted November 26, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 26, 2014 . . . which is okay unless 1/64° will upset your skiing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mwetskier Posted November 26, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 26, 2014 @skialex -oh yeah? well i can check my fin accuracy in a dark closet with my eyes closed simply by feel -so there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Chef23 Posted November 27, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 27, 2014 Frankly e wing is an easy remove and reset. DFT is the thing that drives me nuts. I should just invest in a slot caliper. I usually measure DFT ABOUT 10 times and figure whichever measurement I get the most is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller OTF Posted November 27, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 27, 2014 What I use, stainless steel, 1/16 thick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller liquid d Posted November 27, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 27, 2014 back to 1st post...you're cheap....geez without Schnitz, you probably wouldn't have a wing to adjust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted November 27, 2014 Administrators Share Posted November 27, 2014 @liquid d schnitz was key in the adjustable fin. KLP and others get credit for the wing. Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Become a Supporting Member or make a One-time Donation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller SkiJay Posted November 27, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 27, 2014 That's a unique tool @OTF! I like the way it contacts the ski base at two separate points. With more and more skis featuring rocker over the last 8 inches, this idea is good for consistency. It looks like you could defend yourself with it too if you had to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller SkiJay Posted November 27, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 27, 2014 @Drago @Horton @mwetskier Okay let me explain. First of all, we're all in agreement that virtually every time we adjust DFT, both FL, and FD will need to be reset, and that if we adjust FL, and/or FD, that wing angle will change . . . UNLESS FL and FD are adjusted the same amount, as in the set screws both get turned the same number of degrees. Now here's the magic with geometry part. It turns out that where the leading edge of the fin meets the ski base, it is very nearly a perfect 45° angle (for pretty much the full range of useful adjustment). So if you gained .005" of FL from the DFT change, then you can remove the .005" by moving the leading edge of the fin back into the ski by .005", but only if you also move the back of the fin in by the same amount. And since the whole fin will have ramped up or down the same amount at both ends during the DFT adjustment, FD just happens to need the same .005" adjustment. Try it. Go measure your fin, then crank in a perfect half turn of both FL and FD. When you remeasure, you'll fine both FL and FD have changed so very nearly the same amount that the change in wing angle will be unmeasurable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller OTF Posted November 27, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 27, 2014 @skijay right on, the skis are also concave, that's where the 1/16th thickness comes in. The further you move away from the fin the deeper you set your depth. I made a few of these for friends. They are not within .0005 of each other in dimension like I would do if it were a product I planned to market. The idea was to Make something that would last Make something that I could record measurements off from once I was set where I wanted to be and reference quickly without removing my wing Make something with minimal contact to the ski I made angle gauges that fit in the space between the tool and the fin as an after thought. Works pretty good. Happy Thanksgiving Ballers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skialex Posted November 27, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 27, 2014 @mwetskier when in doubt I always measure, heck I have 5 Mitutoyios three 8" one 12" and a dial one and then I have a Slot fin caliper for measuring Goode skis. I measure a lot but not every time and yes any significant move I can tell by wing inspection and residue marks on the fin. I do not have the super human power of eye or feel measurement like you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted November 27, 2014 Administrators Share Posted November 27, 2014 @jayski from a pure geometric point of you you may be 100% correct but from a practical point of view Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Become a Supporting Member or make a One-time Donation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted November 27, 2014 Administrators Share Posted November 27, 2014 I think you guys are making everything way way way way way way too hard. You should always measure with the same calipers. The concave of the ski or whatever is insignificant if you always measure with the same calipers. The ski itself is not a flat machined surface so all measurement is really just for reference. If you want to really blow your own mind - measure depth from the other side of the fin. In many cases you will get a significantly different number. Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Become a Supporting Member or make a One-time Donation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller A_B Posted November 27, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 27, 2014 Every ski and every caliper can be a little off vs one another, so if you measure with same caliper, 2" block of aluminum or wood, it will show you the relative change you have made. If we are all chasin some imperial factory measure (which isn't) then we would all need the same ski and the same tool. Relative change is the most important for ski fin adjustment. JMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller SkiJay Posted November 27, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 27, 2014 @Horton You realise that now you've dragged @jayski into this again. Haha! The different measures between one side of the fin and the other is actually the best point made in this thread. The difference usually isn't small either. I've been tracking this difference for the past two years and it averages .0035" so far. Out of over 80 skis, only 2 have measured equal on both sides (one D3 and one Goode), and some are different by up to .009"! Number sharing is definitely not rocket science. And none of this changes the geometry of a properly executed DFT adjustment either ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mwetskier Posted November 27, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 27, 2014 someone once said that the difference between the depth measurements from one side to the other is due to a difference in the tunnel surface on each side of the fin but several years ago I built a quick jig to check that on a sixam a monza and a cdx. we checked the fin angle against the top surface of the ski and none of them were true 90. i blame it on inconsistence in cutting the fin slot. the mapple skis andy was building himself right before the 6.0 had a very clever solution using a tapered router bit to ' solve ' that problem but i dont know if they are still using that slotting method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ToddL Posted November 27, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 27, 2014 Just FYI - EZFin Tool on sale again for 2014 - see details here: http://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/9422/annual-ezfintool-end-of-season-special-for-ballers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller A_B Posted November 27, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 27, 2014 @mwetskier - my point exactly. Fin slot cut, fins not being centered or 90 degrees, bottom of the ski, the fin itself, the caliper calibration... Too many variables for .001 worries. Just measure the same way with the same tools and you will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skiray Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 What ever happened to that automatic, 3 demons ions at a time, measuring device? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted November 27, 2014 Administrators Share Posted November 27, 2014 @skiray I had to read your post out loud twice before it made perfect sense Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Become a Supporting Member or make a One-time Donation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skiray Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Auto check really sucks. I Sure am glad my fin doesn't auto check... I think the thing had axiom in its name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MattP Posted November 27, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 27, 2014 http://www.axiomtool.com/axiom/ @smilinjim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Jordan Posted November 29, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 29, 2014 How much is that thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Drago Posted November 30, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 30, 2014 If you gotta ask you can't afford it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Jordan Posted November 30, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 30, 2014 But, let's just pretend for the moment that I could afford it... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Drago Posted November 30, 2014 Baller Share Posted November 30, 2014 Ha, honestly I don't know. I think there was a price out there at one time. Equivalent to approximately 100 digital calipers(?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller savaiusini Posted February 10, 2015 Baller Share Posted February 10, 2015 @WallyGater I'm pretty sure Wiley has the $19 one... All you need to do is loosen the screws to reset your wing angle; no more dropping screws on the dock. Sam Avaiusini - HO Sports Company - Director of Inside Sales and Business Operations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now