Any alternatives to schnitzskis.com fin depth tool?

[WallyGater]

Are there any alternative options to a SPEEDFIN DEPTH GAUGE like the one schnitzskis.com sells for $39.95? Call me cheap but it's hard to see how this little piece of aluminum is worth $40.

[A_B]

There is, it is called the EZ Fin Tool. I have had both and the EZ also helps on DFT if you want to use it like that. About the same cost. If you are a fin tweaker, the $30 vs. taking the wing off every time you want to get a good depth measurement is well worth it in my opinion. Just don't lose it in the lake like I did. A thin strip of adhesive backed foam would have saved me on the Schnitz tool....

 

http://vidkingdom.net/content/view/57/84/

[SkiJay]

Another option is the D3 wing gauge set. Again, it's $40. Of the three options, I like Schniz's best.

 

http://www.d3skis.com/product-p/6-wing-angle-gauge-set.htm

[ToddL]

Regardless of the make/model - a piece of aluminum is not expensive... ensuring that it is cut to exactly 2" down to +/- 0.0005" precision is where the cost comes from. We see fin settings in thousands of an inch. You don't want a gap tool to be any less precise.

[SkiRV]

Saw this on eBay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Waterski-Fin-Gauge-HO-D3-Goode-Elite-Connely-/320931203938?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab8fd8b62

[SkiJay]

In the "we measure fin settings in thousandths of an inch" department, my issue with the Fin Aid is that it is quite a bit thicker than all caliper heads. The concave shape of the ski base will cause the Fin Aid to sit further up the fin than a caliper would with the wing removed. The Schnitz and EZ Fin tool are both the same thickness as most caliper heads which negates this effect.

 

So the Fin Aid is a good price, and a solidly built piece, but the measurements it produces will need to be converted for accurate number sharing purposes.

[lpskier]

So, to save forty bucks (or thirty), take the wing off. It sounds so..... simple.

[mwetskier]

@SkiJay -you can fix that with a file. just narrow down the edge that touches the tunnel by filing a bevel on it until what remains of the flat edge is the same thickness as your caliper head.

[WallyGater]

Simple enough to take the wing off. For convenience and consistency though, guess I'll pony up the $ and eliminate any potential wing movement when experimenting with depth. I may try rolling off the edge lightly with a file -although, I'd say my skiing is probably less consistent than the ~ .005 or so difference that may make... Appreciate the feedback!

[skialex]

@SkiJay‌ you are right, I have both easy fin and Schnitz tool but it only takes a minute to take the wing off and a couple of minutes to put it back on, so I use the speed tools only when in a hurry and usually not on my fin.

 

[Horton]

Unless you are useing a fixed wing like SS sells you need to reset you angle after any adjustments anyway

[SkiJay]

@WallyGater‌ I'm not sure if if misunderstood your post, but just in case; the only fin change that doesn't require a wing angle reset is DFT. Any depth or length change will affect wing angle.

[mwetskier]

@SkiJay -i think unless your front and back set screws just happen to be at the exact same height adjusting the dft will ramp the fin up or down in the fin slot and that will affect both depth and length.

[BRY]

I find the advantage to these is when I want to check settings but don't want to move anything. Say before a tournament or ski school it's good to know settings didn't get bumped by TSA, baggage handlers or me stuffing it in/out of the car. Particularly at Regional's or National's where it really hurts to blow your first set due to messed up settings, makes $40 seem cheap. Sure, could take wing off but that's changing something. Once I get my settings I don't want to move anything.

[SkiJay]

That's correct @mwetskier & @Horton, DFT adjustments will also change FL and FD . . . but the front and back of the fin will ramp in and out of the ski at the same rate. Wing angle will remain the same in this one case.

[skialex]

When I want to be sure that my fin hasn't move and I'm in a hurry I measure length, DFT and use an angle gauge to check the wing (which tells me that depth is right too).

[skialex]

Actually eye inspection and a 9.5 gauge is all I need when I'm on the dock to ensure that me fin hasn't move.

[Horton]

If the fin is resting on set screws and you move DFT => length and or depth almost always change. Unless the surface where the set screw meets the fin is exactly parallel to the fin block something is going to get moved.

[Horton]

@SkiJay‌ your above comment makes sense theoretically but in the real world nothing really works that perfectly

[SkiJay]

. . . which is okay unless 1/64° will upset your skiing.

[mwetskier]

@skialex -oh yeah? well i can check my fin accuracy in a dark closet with my eyes closed simply by feel -so there.

[Chef23]

Frankly e wing is an easy remove and reset. DFT is the thing that drives me nuts. I should just invest in a slot caliper. I usually measure DFT ABOUT 10 times and figure whichever measurement I get the most is right.

[OTF]

What I use, stainless steel, 1/16 thick.

 

[liquid d]

back to 1st post...you're cheap....geez without Schnitz, you probably wouldn't have a wing to adjust.

[Horton]

@liquid d‌ schnitz was key in the adjustable fin. KLP and others get credit for the wing.

[SkiJay]

That's a unique tool @OTF‌! I like the way it contacts the ski base at two separate points. With more and more skis featuring rocker over the last 8 inches, this idea is good for consistency. It looks like you could defend yourself with it too if you had to!

[SkiJay]

@Drago‌ @Horton @mwetskier‌

Okay let me explain. First of all, we're all in agreement that virtually every time we adjust DFT, both FL, and FD will need to be reset, and that if we adjust FL, and/or FD, that wing angle will change . . . UNLESS FL and FD are adjusted the same amount, as in the set screws both get turned the same number of degrees.

 

Now here's the magic with geometry part. It turns out that where the leading edge of the fin meets the ski base, it is very nearly a perfect 45° angle (for pretty much the full range of useful adjustment). So if you gained .005" of FL from the DFT change, then you can remove the .005" by moving the leading edge of the fin back into the ski by .005", but only if you also move the back of the fin in by the same amount. And since the whole fin will have ramped up or down the same amount at both ends during the DFT adjustment, FD just happens to need the same .005" adjustment.

 

Try it. Go measure your fin, then crank in a perfect half turn of both FL and FD. When you remeasure, you'll fine both FL and FD have changed so very nearly the same amount that the change in wing angle will be unmeasurable.

[OTF]

@skijay right on, the skis are also concave, that's where the 1/16th thickness comes in. The further you move away from the fin the deeper you set your depth. I made a few of these for friends. They are not within .0005 of each other in dimension like I would do if it were a product I planned to market. The idea was to

Make something that would last

Make something that I could record measurements off from once I was set where I wanted to be and reference quickly without removing my wing

Make something with minimal contact to the ski

I made angle gauges that fit in the space between the tool and the fin as an after thought. Works pretty good.

 

Happy Thanksgiving Ballers

[skialex]

@mwetskier‌ when in doubt I always measure, heck I have 5 Mitutoyios three 8" one 12" and a dial one and then I have a Slot fin caliper for measuring Goode skis.

I measure a lot but not every time and yes any significant move I can tell by wing inspection and residue marks on the fin.

I do not have the super human power of eye or feel measurement like you

[Horton]

@‌jayski from a pure geometric point of you you may be 100% correct but from a practical point of view

 

 

 

 

[Horton]

I think you guys are making everything way way way way way way too hard. You should always measure with the same calipers. The concave of the ski or whatever is insignificant if you always measure with the same calipers. The ski itself is not a flat machined surface so all measurement is really just for reference.

 

If you want to really blow your own mind - measure depth from the other side of the fin. In many cases you will get a significantly different number.

[A_B]

Every ski and every caliper can be a little off vs one another, so if you measure with same caliper, 2" block of aluminum or wood, it will show you the relative change you have made. If we are all chasin some imperial factory measure (which isn't) then we would all need the same ski and the same tool. Relative change is the most important for ski fin adjustment. JMO.

[SkiJay]

@Horton You realise that now you've dragged @jayski into this again. Haha!

 

The different measures between one side of the fin and the other is actually the best point made in this thread. The difference usually isn't small either. I've been tracking this difference for the past two years and it averages .0035" so far. Out of over 80 skis, only 2 have measured equal on both sides (one D3 and one Goode), and some are different by up to .009"! Number sharing is definitely not rocket science.

 

And none of this changes the geometry of a properly executed DFT adjustment either ;)

[mwetskier]

someone once said that the difference between the depth measurements from one side to the other is due to a difference in the tunnel surface on each side of the fin but several years ago I built a quick jig to check that on a sixam a monza and a cdx. we checked the fin angle against the top surface of the ski and none of them were true 90. i blame it on inconsistence in cutting the fin slot. the mapple skis andy was building himself right before the 6.0 had a very clever solution using a tapered router bit to ' solve ' that problem but i dont know if they are still using that slotting method.

[ToddL]

Just FYI - EZFin Tool on sale again for 2014 - see details here:

http://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/9422/annual-ezfintool-end-of-season-special-for-ballers

[A_B]

@mwetskier‌ - my point exactly. Fin slot cut, fins not being centered or 90 degrees, bottom of the ski, the fin itself, the caliper calibration... Too many variables for .001 worries. Just measure the same way with the same tools and you will be fine.

[skiray]

What ever happened to that automatic, 3 demons ions at a time, measuring device?

[Horton]

@skiray‌ I had to read your post out loud twice before it made perfect sense

[skiray]

Auto check really sucks. I Sure am glad my fin doesn't auto check...

 

I think the thing had axiom in its name.

[MattP]

http://www.axiomtool.com/axiom/

@smilinjim‌

[Jordan]

How much is that thing?

[Drago]

If you gotta ask you can't afford it

[Jordan]

But, let's just pretend for the moment that I could afford it... ;)

[Drago]

Ha, honestly I don't know. I think there was a price out there at one time. Equivalent to approximately 100 digital calipers(?)

[savaiusini]

@WallyGater‌ I'm pretty sure Wiley has the $19 one...

All you need to do is loosen the screws to reset your wing angle; no more dropping screws on the dock.