A tuning thought.....

[Jordan]

Okay guys, this is the result o some winter noodling. I have no evidence and can't try it at this time of the year...so my question is have any of you guys played around with moving your boots laterally to even out onside/offside ?

 

For example, a right fwd skier moving the bindings towards the left edge of the ski.

 

I am curious about this....

[Chef23]

I have never heard of moving the boots but I have heard of twisting and/or canting them.

[Jordan]

Yes...I have played with twisting and canting also....feeling the need to complicate the process- lol

[drewski32]

sounds like a disaster waiting to happen...

[Wish]

Hmmmm.. TGas.. His ski is one half of one ski and one half of another... his boots are off set.

[Horton]

@jordan

Not a terrible idea. It will make a difference.

 

The case against your idea is that most of us really do not understand ski set up to start with. I think I understand it better than most skiers but that is not saying much. The more I learn the more clueless I feel. 95% of the skiers that read this forum would benefit from having an elite coach set up their ski. My fear is one more tuning element would most likely be one more thing to get wrong.

 

I have had two skis in the last few years with the inserts off center by 1/10th or more. I sent both skis back.

 

[Jordan]

I thought if it because, @Horton mentioned some pro skier who sets his ski up with a bias for offside turns...we clearly have an easier time getting on one edge vs the other. I suspect that the amount of change that would be skiable is quite small.

 

I think that we are all built differently and doubt highly that any of us are perfectly symmetrical. Certainly how we stand on a ski isn't symmetrical.

 

Ahhh...winter thoughts :)

 

 

[Horton]

@‌Jordan

note

on side turns have less front foot pressure and more ski roll (yes you should get forward)

 

off side turns are more front foot pressure and less roll

[mwetskier]

schnitz talks about experimenting with this and the various results in his expanded ski tuning guide.

[Than_Bogan]

Fwiw, my best skiing has pretty consistently been with my rear foot rotated such that the heel is closer to one edge than the toe is to the other edge. Therefore, the c.o.m. of my left foot is very likely a fraction of an inch toward the right from center. I claim that most RTPers unconsciously do the same, since the front of the foot is more constrained than the heel.

 

At one point this season I had my OB4s set up so that the rear foot was equally spaced toe-to-edge and heel-to-edge, and this was not comfortable on my on-side. (My on-side is fairly screwed up and a major focus for improvement, so adjusting your ski to match MY pathology may be a poor choice. But with my current technique it works best for me.)

[AdamCord]

Moving the boots laterally definitely makes a difference. It changes the amount of leverage you have over the cutting/turning edge bevel. So if you wanted the ski to roll up more to the right, move the boots right. The ski will roll more easily that way and less easily the other way. You can definitely tune your ski setup this way, although I'd put this adjustment in the "advanced" category.

[eleeski]

The reason it's an "advanced" tuning technique is that most mounting plates don't easily allow such an adjustment. Plus, that adjustment is very difficult to make incrementally to optimize positions.

 

Still, since my boot setups are very custom and very narrow, side to side placement is absolutely something I consider. Typically, I offset a bit to my off side.

 

Hmmm, maybe this was a factor in my hip damage. Offset bindings plus backward twist equals lots of bad torque on the hip - but some nice buoy counts. In retrospect, not worth it...

 

Eric

[The_MS]

My rear Wiley has a tendency to slide right on my ski if screws are not checked each set. I ski like crap if it is too far to the right off/of center.

[drewski32]

the thing about offset bindings laterally is that just riding the ski would probably be unnatural. If you move your front foot towards the inside (left for rff) then you will have to shift weight to the outside and vice versa. That in itself would most likely cause severe balance problems. I see it causing more problems than benefits...

[drewski32]

@wish the reason it works with TGAS's ski is that his ski his not at all symmetrical meaning its center of mass is offset, so its rotational axis is offset as well.

[Jordan]

@drewski ; let's say that you have two people, same height, same weight...and they are on the same ski...how could it be that their two body alignments are identical? If they are not, then they would each experience a different balance point biased left or right of center.

 

In setting up both high end figure skates and hockey skates, lateral alignment is altered to suit pronation and supination...

 

Just sayin'

[eleeski]

Centered bindings work pretty well. For me as RFF an offset to the left makes my offside really good and I have to be on top of things to make my onside great. Absolutely a tuning technique that is noticeable and makes a difference in buoy count.

 

But there are many other ways to tune a ski. Some don't make your onside worse to improve your offside. When skiers stress over a couple thousandths of fin movement, can radical tradeoffs really be predictable enough to be a mainstream tuning protocol? Of course, the very top skiers (and experimenters) will certainly optimize their skis using whatever technique works - regardless of the difficulty or uncertainty.

 

@Jordan is on to something. Make us a table that quantifies the reaction to various lateral movements and we will have a starting point to make this a useful tool.

 

5mm is too much. My offside rocked but I fell or missed too often on my onside.

 

Eric

[adkh2oskier]

I am LFF and had a strange experience at my last tournament. Best results in 5 yrs, ran 35 all 3 rounds. I am on rubber bindings, Connelly Visions(old). The day after the tournament I pulled my ski out and noticed that the rear toe plate had shifted far to the left, so much so that the plate was literally hanging about a quarter of an inch over the edge of the ski. Since it resulted in a good tournament I'm wondering if it actually helped my skiing, I don't know when happened, might have been first pass or last pass. Maybe I should just leave it there and see what happens?

 

[Horton]

I take a lot of angle with my back foot. Heel to the right toes to the left. It is a comfort thing. Now I wonder what else it impacts or if front foot placement (right to left) has more impact. I can tell you I am NOT going to start experimenting with this idea. If someone nails it down let me know.

[9400]

I've got mine displaced to the left (I'm RFF) it was more to tone down my on side than to help my offside. I probably moved it an 1/8". It was not extremely noticeable.

[eleeski]

@adkh2oskier‌ LFF shifted to the left on the rear foot? I'm RFF and shifted my back foot to the right. I loved the feel and the buoy count but I believe it adds lots of stress to the hip. When I did it younger, my hip was just a bit sore. When I did it a couple seasons ago, it hurt enough to go to a doctor. I still struggle to do RTB on my trick ski so it is a significant concern. Maybe it was coincidental aging but I'm blaming the binding placement. Just pay attention to your body if you do mess with back boot placement...

Eric

[SkiJay]

@Jordan‌

It works and your ski won't do anything radical like this so trying it won't hurt you. If you are curious, try it. If nothing else it will be a mildly enlightening experience.

 

On the other hand, it falls into the category of setup crutches that may mess with your progress. As a skier, I want my skiing skills to be symmetrical. I like being able to jump onto any new ski anytime and to be able to test it with the factory setup on it. An offside setup like this shouldn't be necessary, so if you support whatever bad habit is requiring a setup crutch like this, you may be further engraining this less than ideal habit--not ideal in the long run.

[drewski32]

Maybe I just misunderstand the mechanics that go into it all. I understand that it will put more of the turning in the water on one side and less on the other, but I would think it would make riding the ski awkward. However, @9400 seems to have made it work so I guess I'm wrong