Best servo speed control for LXI?

[Rivvy]

I have a 2003 malibu LXI that I have decided to run another year. 335hp indmar. My biggest gripe with the boat is the perfect pass. It is the stock 6.5 system single line large display. There are a number of posts out there on zbox vs stargazer. Most sound like stargazer is best value. I would appreciate opinions from those that have done similar upgrades. Things I don't like about my current setup is: time to settle in (short setup) & sensitivity to throttle end position. Other boats on lake have a softer pull with good times whereas mine is a harsher pull.

 

If someone has a stargazer or zbox setup for a servo system that they want to part with, send me a pm.

 

Thanks. And yes I have spent a ton of time with the pp guys trying to improve it.

[MISkier]

If you or anybody you ski with also competes in tournaments, get the zbox.

 

Whichever system you get (StarGazer or zbox), spent the time to dial it in and make the settings adjustments necessary for your short setup.

[kstateskier]

well unless you repower your boat with an upgraded engine using throttle by wire and new ECM I don't think ZO is an option for your 03 LXI. @Jody_Seal can probably comment further. SG with the ZBox should be your best option - however I'll caution you to get the SG setup properly timed in and performing well before plugging in the zbox.

[Chef23]

Whatever you are going to put in the boat is going to be sensitive to overshooting the speed on a short setup. I have Stargazer in a 02 Malibu LX and it is more sensitive than my buddies 01 LX with old PP classic.

[Steven_Haines]

I just recently put Stargazer with ZBOX in a 95 Response. It was really easy plug and play. I did have a few issues with it running away from me going to 3 ball, but I think I have this problem solved! We have a long setup at Canyon Lake so I don't have a problem getting it to settle in. I've been messing with settings a bit more now, trying to evaluate which is best for me. Watching video, I can definitely hear the difference between a C3 pass compared to C1. So far in all conditions my times have been 16.94 to 16.97 no matter the conditions! Good enough for me! I'm looking forward to pulling Scott Larson behind it to hear his feedback about my pull compared to the new boats as I have very limited time behind a ZO boat and lack the the feel/skills that Larson has!

All in all, I'm very pleased with my purchase!

[bassfooter]

@Rivvy - Zbox is an upgrade to Stargazer; you have to have SG to use a Zbox. Stargazer adds GPS functions not available on PP Classic, such as mapping your course(s) so you don't need magnets. Zbox adds ZO-type features, most importantly, an accelerometer system. As @kstateskier said, you'll want to get the Start gazer unit dialed in before adding Zbox, because Zbox provides a few settings on top of what the Stargazer system comes with. Spend some time familiarizing yourself, and you'll have no problem, and the Perfect Pass support crew is awesome. We have SG on our '98 Nautique, and added Zbox last year. It works great.

 

[mrpreuss]

Run PP classic on + or ++ and use a switch set at PX 20-40

closest pull to ZO and all RPM based, no weird stuff with PP GPS

 

 

[Rivvy]

Thanks. Sounds like I should start with a stargazer upgrade and see if think I need to do the zbox later. We don't tournament ski. We just want a better pull. Any recommendations on where to get the best price on a stargazer with display?

[MISkier]

Note: some may say they don't like the SG pull. I'm guessing that may be due to skiing with one that wasn't fully dialed in. But, unless PerfectPass has changed it, you should still be able to run it in Classic mode with an RPM-based pull. You will get the benefit of GPS course mapping and timing without magnets with a new purchase of SG. It could be the best of both worlds for you. Of course, Zbox will get you close to a Zero Off pull and could turn your system upgrade into a win-win-win.

[Steven_Haines]

I went directly to Perfect Pass. We did a group purchase, 3 Stargazer with ZBOX and 1 ZBOX, and got a screaming deal!

[lff]

I have a 2003 RLXi and also have a short setup. I struggled with getting Stargazer set up to work with the short approach but after adding the Z-box(and no further adjustments) it settles right in. We take off and then pull back on the throttle a bit and it's perfect every time. Highly recommend spending the extra dough on the Z-box.

[Shakeski]

Just got a Stargazer upgrade with new gauge from Miami Ski Nautique website for $689.99 delivered. They ship directly from Perfect Pass. No need for a group buy. It was the way to go! (upgraded a 2000 MC PS190 from the perfect pass 5.0 system). We also have a short set up for the course, but haven't tested the new system on it yet.

[lff]

One more thing: don't forget to select inverted tach. Made a huge difference on my boat in terms of settling in and maintining speed. Cured the runaway at 3 ball syndrome.

[MISkier]

+1 for what @lff said. Check/invert the tach.

[pgmoore]

@MISkier , @lff , @"Steven Haines" , or anyone else with experience.... does this business of inverting the tach apply only to certain engines/boats? It seems to come up a lot.

 

My tug has a GT-40... should I be inverting the tach, too?

[MISkier]

Typically, the inverted tach applies to Malibu. I don't think.the other boats are affected.

[Jody_Seal]

When we install Perfect pass we run our ground directly to the battery. Also We wire the power directly to the key switch when applicable or the closes switched power to the switched power source. This eliminates any power or ground degradation inherent in the electrical system in the dash.

If memory serves me the GT-40 should be run inverted as should HVS and GM electronic. Keep in mind the inverted feature is a newer feature in the systems as we used to just run the tach conditioning wire black to signal and grey to ground, Inverted.

[Rivvy]

I don't remember my current system having an inverted tach option. I believe it is a 6.5n version. Or are you suggesting for the stargazer system use the inverted tach setting?

[lff]

Mine has the inverted tach setting and I'm running 8.something.

[MISkier]

Consider the inverted tach setting when you install StarGazer and/or Zbox. I believe it was introduced with StarGazer or 6.5ng. It may not have been on 6.5n.

[Rivvy]

So I have the 2003 lxi w/ the indmar 335 hp motor. I just installed my stargazer system last night and the manual says to run it at 3000 rpm and see if it fluctuates. If it fluctuates by 30 to 40 rpms or more then switch to the inverted tach setting. Does the group recommend following the manual or do you have the confidence that with my model and motor combo I should just start with the inverted tach setting? I'm not sure if there would be adverse effects to having the inverted tach setting if not needed. Boat hits the water this weekend. Thanks.

[davemac]

@Rivvy my 03Rlxi SG ran better after inverting tach last year.

[Ilivetoski]

I would be careful about getting stargazer for a better pull. I ski behind my friends boat which has StarGazer and every time we go out we have issues with the speed. It gives you a perfect time, but one of the segments is hot and one is slow. Every. Single. Time. We are putting Zbox on our 04 LXi this year, but if I didnt do tournaments I would pick PP over StarGazer any day.

[MISkier]

If someone doesn't like the StarGazer pull, you should be able to run it in Classic RPM mode. I did that on my old MasterCraft. Either that, or add on the zBox.

 

My old MC ran great in RPM mode. I didn't really care for the StarGazer mode (a.k.a GPS Slalom). I've skied some zBox that I liked. I love Zero Off on my current boat.

[Rivvy]

I figure the zbox will be my end state if the switch to stargazer doesn't meet my needs. At least now I should be able to get segment times to see where I'm at. I'm not sure there wasn't something wrong with my old module.

[Rivvy]

 

[Rivvy]

Install complete. Note water temp.

[MISkier]

Keep us posted on the dial-in results and your short setup. Did you invert the tach?

[Rivvy]

Yes I did thx. Course won't come up until water temp gets close to 60.

[rockdog]

No inverted tach necessary for the GT-40 in mine.

 

I'm also interested in your segment times with your short setup @Rivvy when you're up and going.

[Ed_Obermeier]

@Ilivetoski If you're having issues with dialing in SG both myself and @GregHind have posted numerous times on how to fix that. Do a search or PM me, I'll be happy to send you my version of how to fix it. I'm sure Greg will be happy to help as well, he is very knowledgeable on the subject.

[Rivvy]

Thanks again!!

[Ilivetoski]

@Ed_Obermeier We are putting Zbox in our boat this season, it is not in yet but hopefully we have no issues.

[Steven_Haines]

I put SG and ZBOX in my Malibu a few months ago. At first it would run between 1 and 3. I followed the suggestions and now it feels great!

[Rivvy]

I'm not sure if anyone was following this upgrade. If so, I'm very happy with the results of stargazer versus pp classic. Less finicky. I did not end up getting zbox. Not zo but plenty good for me. With the right touch to not overshoot set point it works with a short setup. Thanks for those that gave input!

[GregHind]

@Rivvy thanks for the update. There is a lot of information on here about Perfect Pass which is bad because it relates to ancient versions and things have changed. Many better skiers have now moved to Zero Off boats but talk about their experiences with PP as if they would still relate to current versions. It just doesn't.

 

Perfect Pass software upgrades have made Stargazer & Zbox very different. People who had/have problems are almost universally running old versions software and the problems have been fixed in more recent versions.

 

Also, there is no reason to get Stargazer first, dial it in then get Z box later. Get it all at once.

 

By all means, for a test run, set the Z factor at 0. This will disable the z box altogether. Make sure the pull is smooth & correct. Then turn Z box back on (default is 7) and enjoy it!

 

@Jody_Seal advice about running the ground direct to battery is good. He is also right about getting the positive from a good location. I take it a step further and install an ignition switched relay so that the PP also gets its positive direct from the battery. There is a relay in line so that the ignition switch controls the power to PP but the power is direct from the battery. I use 6mm "auto cable" for this.

[skiboyny]

I have the most current version of stargazer that I'm very pleased with, however it didn't start out that way. We bought 2 systems for two different boats. End times were always bang on, but ball to ball times not so much. When the ball to ball times vary too much it makes for a terrible skiing experience. The good news is with some time and advice found on some past threads, you can change the background settings to run ball times within one to two thousandths.The operating manual will not help you with the description of how to adjust background settings. Only information on past threads will guide you in the right direction.