Baller ozski Posted May 25, 2015 Baller Share Posted May 25, 2015 Ok so I can take an educated guess at this but its a bit odd that in slalom we have plenty of healthy debate around binding choice for various reasons. Safety, performance, comfort. Jumpers almost always use Wiley boots so they must offer the best performance and safety for jumping which is fine but i could imagine snow skiers looking at water ski jumpers and wondering about our setups.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Chef23 Posted May 26, 2015 Baller Share Posted May 26, 2015 I guess there are D3 bindings you could jump in but it is a very small market and I am not aware of any other vendors that market jump bindings today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ozski Posted May 26, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted May 26, 2015 Yeah sure but my question is why still rubber? As far as slalom goes there seems to be a consensus that you can get better performance from other types of boot systems so why not jumping? I just look at the way ski's have advanced and boats, ropes, speed control... And then we have the Wiley design hanging in from the 70's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Nando Posted May 26, 2015 Baller Share Posted May 26, 2015 OB4s? I agree- Wileys are a very well-crafted 1970s design. WIleys are super high quality and their wrap options allow pretty good customization, but it's still an old design. What percentage of jumpers use anything else, though- 10%? Less? In my jumping days, I used Connelly HPs, then HO Animals, but I wasn't any good and I was an oddball using those. D3s seem like they'd be a pretty good option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller eleeski Posted May 26, 2015 Baller Share Posted May 26, 2015 Jumpers cannot accept any pre release. Rubber never pre releases. Wiley makes great rubber bindings and has engineered excellent support into the bindings. Wileys just work. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Chef23 Posted May 26, 2015 Baller Share Posted May 26, 2015 I seem to recall Jon Travers jumped pretty far on some Fluid Motions back when he was a jumper but I agree with @eleeski on the issue around pre-release. There is less risk for a mechanical failure with rubber than with the newer bindings and there is much greater stress on jump bindings than slalom or trick. For jumpers that go far Wiley's has bindings with extra support built in to them and I am not aware of any other manufacturer that offers that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Jordan Posted May 26, 2015 Baller Share Posted May 26, 2015 Jumpers also need a lot forward flex from their binding in order to get into the foil flying position forward over their giant planks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted May 26, 2015 Baller Share Posted May 26, 2015 D3 would never recommend their slalom bindings for jump. They actually sell Wiley's for that application. Wiley's has a dual wrap system that completely locks the jumpers foot in place. Of course, it also squeezes every Ml of blood out of your foot and into your forehead. But you're foot is NOT moving. And it's more than just about pre-release. A jumper can't have any movement once they roll in for the ramp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E_T Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 A few jump records have been set on OB4 if properly set and maintained should perform as well as other bindings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Jody_Seal Posted May 26, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted May 26, 2015 Cause that is what works the best! Sometimes old tech is better.. Way Back when at one of the last superstars on lake David I watched one of the McCormick boys that utilized the ARC binding loose the left in front of the jump................................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted May 26, 2015 Baller Share Posted May 26, 2015 Ouch, I bet that left a mark! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mmosley899 Posted May 27, 2015 Baller Share Posted May 27, 2015 @Jody_Seal the McCormick boys were not known for taking care of their equipment, maintenance is required. Equipment failure is most often operator error. I have jumped for the past twenty years with the ARC, now OB4 system and never had a pre release. Both my kids grew up jumping with the system. I have jumped 140' on 5 foot and 165' on 5.5 foot ramp with this system. Rubber never pre releases and causes all kinds of injuries because it does not release in a safe manner during crashes. My jump bindings flex forward better than rubber. Those giant planks can create quite a bit of leverage around your knees and ankles. My binding system has saved both my knees and ankles numerous times. While I am not jumping world record distances, neither are most of the jumpers out there. But knee and ankle injuries happen more to that amateur group of skiers while learning to jump and trying to progress. @ozski No binding system is perfect, injuries happen. Each skier has to determine what works best for himself. Any jumpers that are interested in trying the OB4 system can do so safely. Mis-information is rampant when people are not actually using the product. Do snow ski slopes allow non releasable bindings on snow skis? Mike's Overall Binding USA Water Ski Senior Judge Senior Driver Senior Tech Controller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mmosley899 Posted May 27, 2015 Baller Share Posted May 27, 2015 Me jumping a few years back, my son from last summer... Mike's Overall Binding USA Water Ski Senior Judge Senior Driver Senior Tech Controller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MrJones Posted May 27, 2015 Baller Share Posted May 27, 2015 Way back in the day when Freddie first started he was sponsored by Obrien. They had those crappy, soft, plastic based "Advantage" bindings. I remember him trying to keep those things pieced together with screws all over and extra wraps. Besides the pre release issue, I would have to say that the reason is that Wiley's have a super solid base and attachment method that securely holds everything together. As vertical wall attachment of the rubber became the norm after HO came out with their boot, the attachment in most all bindings became plastic to plastic instead of to metal. Not very solid or safe. Other boots worked back in the day. My wife was sponsored by Connelly and we used HP plates. Nothing worse than being a slalom guy who has to cram double high wraps onto rubber bindings that you don't even use... Not a fun way to spend the evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member Than_Bogan Posted May 27, 2015 Supporting Member Share Posted May 27, 2015 I wonder if I were 18 again and OB4s had already been invented if I might consider jumping? Nah, probably not. But anyhow, I think this is a really interesting topic, because a properly maintained and set up OB4 system seems to me would have huge advantages over rubber. Look at those huge lever-arms (aka skis) and oh-btw you start out with only one foot in! So I would desperately want to be able to eject in rotation. BUT with pre-releases having such potential danger, there is more responsibility on the user to be sure he/she never jumps with it set up incorrectly. Interesting tradeoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegile Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I used to work at Wileys - way longer ago than I would like to admit - building bindings. The jump bindings are great for a number of reasons. 1) They are customizable - thickness and number of wraps, and thickness of rubber allows for a boot as stiff or flexible as desired. 2) The foot bed is padded. We played around with all kinds of options from just a piece of foam to multiple levels of rubber, especially in the heel, to custom foot beds on top of rubber for cushion. You can specify your level of padding. 3) Easy on and off. These bindings release extremely predictably. 4) Easy to rebuild. If a wrap or finger hole tear it is a cheap five minute job rather than needing another binding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MattP Posted May 27, 2015 Baller Share Posted May 27, 2015 @Mike Gile 4) Easy to rebuild. If a wrap or finger hole tear it is a cheap five minute job rather than needing another binding. Easy for someone who worked there... Give me some vice grips and an half an hour and I can get them as good as new. Might have to stop for a beer half way through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Edbrazil Posted May 27, 2015 Baller Share Posted May 27, 2015 At the 1969 Eastern Regionals, I got 3rd in Mens Jump with Lange Standard skiboots and Look Nevada bindings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jimbrake Posted May 27, 2015 Baller Share Posted May 27, 2015 @Edbrazil - that sounds heavy and painful. Langes pre-about 1973 were like getting hit with a pipe across the lower shins. But good job anyway. Impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegile Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 @MattP, I recommend the beer beforehand. It helps minimize the anger management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Cumby85 Posted May 27, 2015 Baller Share Posted May 27, 2015 It's been a long time since I jumped, but I couldn't imaging using anything but rubber. It seems to me that sit back landings would also be really rough on your legs if in a rigid binding that didn't give backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ozski Posted May 28, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted May 28, 2015 Putting everything else to one side and just focusing on performance is it fair to assume that there is an advantage to be gained by going to a type of hard boot setup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mmosley899 Posted May 28, 2015 Baller Share Posted May 28, 2015 @Cumby85 properly setup hard shell boots must flex forward and backwards for jumping, not be too rigid. Mine do. @ozski comfort is one huge advantage. Increased lateral control is another. Safe releases in a rough landing also lead to better performances... Mike's Overall Binding USA Water Ski Senior Judge Senior Driver Senior Tech Controller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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