Baller swc5150 Posted May 23, 2016 Baller Share Posted May 23, 2016 Looking for thoughts on a weird steering problem I'm having with our '06 196. When at speed, if I turn the wheel to the left, at a certain point I can feel a resistant spot, then it "pops" allowing me to continue turning the wheel left. The steering was sloppy too, so I replaced the steering cable Saturday, thinking that would solve both issues. It's not sloppy anymore, but still doing that weird thing to the left. As far as parts, I'm guessing the helm is all that left? Before ordering a new one, is there something more I should be looking at? I did dig into the helm last season, and that little allen screw is tight, so that's not it. Any thoughts? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller keithh2oskier Posted May 23, 2016 Baller Share Posted May 23, 2016 Which way is the adjustable rudder trim tab facing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Skoot1123 Posted May 23, 2016 Baller Share Posted May 23, 2016 Could the rudder be sticking in the bushing that supports it? If the bushing is getting corroded that could cause something to stick until external forces force it to move again. Does it pop in the sense that it feels like turning something with a gear that has a missing tooth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted May 23, 2016 Baller Share Posted May 23, 2016 Peel the rubber off of your helm so you can get a good look. There is a screw in there that can get loose and the steering will first start with a catch in it...but if you wait it's going to get stuck and I'm telling ya unsafe. If it's like mine was the exposed screw is catching and then you are popping past it. I can't remember if it was an allen wrench set up, but it was tiny. You will have to be looking in there and may need to do a complete revolution of the shaft to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Waternut Posted May 23, 2016 Baller Share Posted May 23, 2016 Might be a good time to just replace that rudder packing. When you do that, you may find the source of the problem. Could be a loose packing nut, loose bolt, or some metal piece binding. The other thing to check would be the teeth in the helm. Could've broken a tooth and it's got some nasty burr which binds heavier when steering in one direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted May 23, 2016 Author Baller Share Posted May 23, 2016 I'll have to look at where the tab is angled. It's set to pull left at the wheel. I also tore the helm down, and the set screw is nice and tight. Rudder also very easy to rotate with or without the steering cable connected (very easy when the cable disconnected). It really seems like it's at the helm, as I think I can hear it pop in there. I'll pull the rack again and look at all the teeth on the helm, which I should've done to begin with. A burr seems like a real possibility. Thanks ballers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller JC McCavit Posted May 23, 2016 Baller Share Posted May 23, 2016 Be sure to check the steering at the wheel when the rudder is disconnected, that might help to narrow it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted May 23, 2016 Author Baller Share Posted May 23, 2016 It only happens when the boat is underway and above idle. The wheel spins effortlessly otherwise, as does the rudder. With the rack disconnected from the helm, the wheel also spins freely. I'm going to drop the rack and look at the teeth in the helm when I get home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Drago Posted May 23, 2016 Baller Share Posted May 23, 2016 Is it difficult to turn under load (like a power turn to go back for a skier)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted May 24, 2016 Author Baller Share Posted May 24, 2016 No, not at all. Handles like butter, other than the breaking point "pop" thing. It's so weird. I can be driving fine in a straight line and turning to the right. but whenever I go left, I the steering wheel hits a "stop point", for lack of a better term, the wheel feels like it skips a few teeth then hooks up again, allowing me to complete the turn no problem. I think there's still too much slop when cruising at idle too, as my other boats didn't require as much, or any, wheel input to keep moving straight. I just took off the rack, and all blades look good on the helm. The only thing that may seem strange is when I grab the spindle end (the round point that pokes out the very back of the helm opposite the steering wheel and rack, it has movement. Not much movement, but maybe enough to effect something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted May 24, 2016 Author Baller Share Posted May 24, 2016 could the rudder tab be set in a weird spot, causing the rudder to "lock" at a certain point in a left turn? Maybe I should adjust it slightly and take a drive before tearing the helm apart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Mateo_Vargas Posted May 24, 2016 Baller Share Posted May 24, 2016 We are having a similar problem. In a right hand turn you can feel the rudder load shift to the other side when turning the wheel back to the left to straighten out. When we had the rack off I could feel the slop in the helm by putting my finger on the pinion gear and turning the wheel. The boat has over 2000 ski lake hours and has turned a lot so ordered a new helm yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skiboat38 Posted May 24, 2016 Baller Share Posted May 24, 2016 It is the packing in the rudder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted May 24, 2016 Author Baller Share Posted May 24, 2016 @skiboat38 My issue or Mateo's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted May 25, 2016 Author Baller Share Posted May 25, 2016 Just look at my rudder tab, and it was just barely tweaked towards the driver side of the boat (trailing end). I moved it out more, which result in more pull to the left, and hopefully help/solve my problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skiinxs Posted May 25, 2016 Baller Share Posted May 25, 2016 Moving the tab to the right will result in more pull to the right, which is what you want in an Nautique due to the right hand prop rotation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skiinxs Posted May 25, 2016 Baller Share Posted May 25, 2016 You might want to try some synthetic grease in the rudder port grease fitting (if it has one, some years didn't). When the grease is dry and sticky, you may not notice the extra friction until the boat is moving and the rudder is under load. Even if that is not your root cause, when you do fix the issue your steering will be smoother and easier. If there is no grease fitting, you will need to drop the rudder to grease. I am sure it wouldn't be a bad idea to replace the packing and clean it all up as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skiboat38 Posted May 25, 2016 Baller Share Posted May 25, 2016 @SWC5150 his and your's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted May 25, 2016 Author Baller Share Posted May 25, 2016 I do have a grease fitting on mine, which makes it a little easier. I'll swap the rudder packing and see how it goes as well. It looks like a pretty easy job, especially compared to swapping the steering cable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller keithh2oskier Posted May 25, 2016 Baller Share Posted May 25, 2016 @swc5150 I just did both on my 196. Swapping the cable is a PITA and takes an hour or two and you really need two people. Dropping the rudder is a 15 min job. The "grease" on mine was really old and dry. I lubed it up with marine grease after and it made a noticeable difference at idle when maneuvering at the dock, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted May 25, 2016 Author Baller Share Posted May 25, 2016 @keithh2oskier I did my cable alone, and it was a bear. I have a heater, so those hoses and heater itself really get in the way. Not a job I want to repeat anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skiinxs Posted May 25, 2016 Baller Share Posted May 25, 2016 Make sure you use the GoreTex packing, they have it at skidim.com. It lasts a lot longer and seems to have less friction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted May 25, 2016 Author Baller Share Posted May 25, 2016 Thanks @skiinxs I saw that on skidim and it looked to be the way to go. I'm running to our local MC dealer at noon to see if they have the materials as well. Would like to get this done and get back on the water. Any tips to making the packing process go smoothly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skiinxs Posted May 25, 2016 Baller Share Posted May 25, 2016 Make sure you get the correct size. Cut three pieces to the exact length so each piece can wrap all the way around the rudder shaft and butt together. Place each piece with the butt 180 degrees apart. You might as well drop the rudder and clean up the rudder shaft and port bore with solvent, dry and install with synthetic grease. (I know it isn't marine but is much slippier than the marine grease and reduces friction a bunch. This is one of the reasons that I constantly hear "That is the best driving boat I have ever been in" about my boats). Make sure you get some good stainless safety wire and replace the safety wire when you reinstall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted May 25, 2016 Author Baller Share Posted May 25, 2016 Thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Jody_Seal Posted May 25, 2016 Baller_ Share Posted May 25, 2016 When the rudder is out of the boat check the packing nut bore and make sure it is round and not elongated. Also make sure the the nut was not loose and rotating in sequence with the tiller arm, the jam nut could be loose causing the one way stiff steering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted May 26, 2016 Author Baller Share Posted May 26, 2016 Re-packed the rudder tonight...very easy job for a change! The rings were definitely due, when comparing them to the new ones, and the existing grease was old. dropped the rudder, cleaned it all out and replaced with Mobile 1 synthetic. Next is the water test, and I'll be surprised if the problem isn't solved. Thanks for help everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller eleeski Posted May 26, 2016 Baller Share Posted May 26, 2016 All this rudder packing advice?! When my rudder failed, the housing itself wore out (like what @Jody_Seal describes). Turned it 90 degrees and got a couple more years out of it. Ended up machining an oversize cutout to match the delrin ring I slipped over the end of the rudder shaft to make a replaceable bearing. Worked great and it outlasted the boat. Eric FWIW, cotton rope saturated with bearing grease worked acceptably well for packing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Mateo_Vargas Posted May 26, 2016 Baller Share Posted May 26, 2016 I greased the rudder port last night and the steering is much better now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted May 27, 2016 Author Baller Share Posted May 27, 2016 So here's an idiot move that I should've paid closer attention to. My rudder now rotates much further left than it does right. I'm glad the bracket where I need to adjust the cable connection is conveniently located under the gas tank. Getting tired of this project:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller pkreusch Posted May 27, 2016 Baller Share Posted May 27, 2016 @swc5150 Sounds like everyone has great advice in the column so far. I'd only add this... If what you do so far doesn't solve the issue, isolate the parts and move (push, pull, turn. etc.) each by hand. Remove the rack from the helm and check the helm only. Then remove the cable from the rudder and check the rudder only. As for idiot moves, I wish I had a nickel for each I one I should have paid closer attention to... "That which doesn't kill us only makes us stronger" :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted May 27, 2016 Author Baller Share Posted May 27, 2016 @pkreusch Totally agree. I checked each piece as I went, and I haven't noticed anything odd. Other than my cable being attached too far towards the stern, the wheel turns extremely smooth now, and hopefully that translates on the water. The rudder grease appeared old, and wasn't all that slick. The Mobil 1 grease I put in really loosened things up. I definitely learned a lot during this process. I just wish the cable mounting bracket was a little more accessible:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jackski Posted May 27, 2016 Baller Share Posted May 27, 2016 My friends 98 Nautique has done this since new, never found a cure. It's terrible to ski behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted May 27, 2016 Author Baller Share Posted May 27, 2016 Wow "terrible to ski behind" are words you don't usually hear about a TSC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRST Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 I fought this exact same issue in my 2007. Replaced the cable, helm, repacked and finally had success by replacing the clevis where the cable attaches to the tiller arm. Updated version available from nautique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRST Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted May 31, 2016 Author Baller Share Posted May 31, 2016 Finally took the boat out today, and the problem is solved. I drives fantastic now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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