Stack.....

[DmaxJC_ski]

If there was one piece of advice or one hint that could be given that helped you lock into solid stack all the time what would it be?

 

Some days it's there for me, but most days not, And I sure find when I get it, im not working nearly as hard.

[UWSkier]

I'm really inconsistent too, but find when I'm keying on:

Bring your hips

Standing tall

Elbows on vest

Counter to the point it feels weird

Don't rush back to the handle...

...I don't work nearly as hard and I don't hear the ZO hammering me.

 

If any one of those things is missing though, I ski like garbage.

 

[The_MS]

Ski back to the handle and dont reach for it

[rockdog]

Butt clenched=hips up.

[Horton]

@UWSkier lots of counter might not be best.

[aupatking]

More wing. ;)

 

[Horton]

@aupatking i would award you a Panda but i am pretty sure you are "trying" to making a funny

[aupatking]

Yeah @Horton , I half expected a Panda, just saw this thing on Craigslist and had to share. It was too good, or bad.

[DmaxJC_ski]

@UWSkier @Horton I tend to not counter much at all.... I keep thinking there is one thing that will be a lightbulb moment saying " that's it you idiot...."

[Horton]

@DmaxJC_ski i tend to discourage counter because is is generally misunderstood and over emphasized.

[SkiJay]

@DmaxJC_ski Rather than thrashing to set up a stack as the load hits at the finish of the turn, many find it easier to arrive at the handle already stacked. A proper pre-turn gives you time to set up a nice tall stack over your front foot that can be ridden around the ball and back to the handle—with a minimum of moving parts.

[skibug]

DETERMINATION!!!! It just doesn't happen. All these bits of advice and technique suggestions are trumped by DETERMINATION. You have to be comfortable with being uncomfortable, until it becomes ingrained in your muscle memory. I am sure you have felt what it feels like to have the pull come from the center when you catch the handle just right and the stack comes naturally; but, when you don't is when it really matters. My contention is no matter what it takes, if you don't catch it right, you have to force the hips up and throw the shoulders back and hang on!! This can result in an less than desirable unbalanced position (i.e. uncomfortable); but, that is OK. Even if it means getting back on the tail a little bit, even if it means you wind up swimming once in while. If you are on the tail more but the pull is coming from the center, you will be in much better shape than being separated and pulling from above the waist. Obviously this isn't optimum; but, the more you force the position when it doesn't come automatically.....the more it will start to come automatically.....just my $.02

[BrianC]

Arch your back

[UWSkier]

@Horton I hear you. For me countering is what I tell myself to get my shoulders level, not trying to imitate (and failing to imitate) JMac.

[Horton]

@DmaxJC_ski

 

A broken stack generally your hips back and your chest forward. Your brain (very skier's brain) thinks you want to ski with a semi straight front leg and very bent back leg plus chest forward to even things out. Every every every skier has to unlearn this.

 

@jayski makes a good suggestion about working on this in your preturn. You sure has heck are not going to learn to correct a bad position after apex. For lower level skiers I go a step farther back and try to get skiers to only work on it at the gate. There is a lot more time to think at the gate and then you can take that and repeat it at as you approach every ball.

 

By now you have heard my solution.... straight legs. If your back leg (knees and ankles) is bent the same amount as your front leg then you are going to find yourself aligned. I am semi joking when I tell skiers this because it is so backwards from what many of us were told in the 70s, 80s and 90s. Bottom line is if you are tall on the ski you are stacked. It may not seem easy but - Just stand the heck up!

 

If you are aligned some of the time the big question is what happens that makes you lose it. Some skiers push their shoulders forward in the preturn others crush their back leg after apex and others.... So again where do you think it goes bad?

 

I am going to have to respectfully say that the above advise is well–intentioned but misguided. All the back arching, countering and butt crack squeezing in the world will not help you if your back leg is significantly more bent than your front.

 

[The_MS]

@SkiJay hits it right. Ski back to the handle in position. If you have to stack after that point you are loosing angle, ground (water) and time.

[mwetskier]

speaking of @skijay the pic @aupatking posted looks almost identical to one in the fin whispering book. also looks like some chet raley fins i've seen in the past.

[xrated]

So I've been breaking terrible at the waist this year.

 

After reading Hortons "ski at my lake" deal the last two times I have just concentrated on keeping my back leg straighter...I don't know if I am passing the visual test, but I feel like I am not breaking near as bad and in turn I am feeling much more in control. I think maybe I am not turning as hard but it definitely feels better.

[lcgordon]

How straight are we talking. I cant find one video of a skier that skis with straight legs. Are we talking locked knees? If thats the case im missing something. Alot of skiers come pretty straight legged into the ball but through the turn and out of the turn there is pretty significant bend at the knees especially the back one. Am i missing where the stright legs are supposed to happen?

[MrJones]

If the tip is not rotated across course, you cannot stack well. If you are closed, it's harder. If you have tension in your arms, it's almost impossible. Your knees can be bent (like Willy) or straight (like JMac).

 

I do agree with Horton about straight legs generally being better. Everyone trying to emulate Wade Cox back in the day screwed some of us up. I'd have been way better off trying to be Lucky Lowe.

[sunvalleylaw]

I always liked Bob LaPoint as a visual. He always seemed pretty athletically erect, tall and stacked. But sometimes I do let my hips get back, and now will think more about how my rear leg and letting that bend contributes to that.

 

here is some vid from 1990 of both Bob and Lucky. too bad no audio.

 

[lcgordon]

I see that "straight Legs" Is something you strive for but does not actually happen. So It should be called straighter legs. Glad to know this because I dont think when I pull I could ever completely straighten my legs.

[SkiJay]

Andy Mapple told me he thought you can still have good alignment (stack) when skiing compressed (bent legs). But if you're not finished your turn when the load hits, skiing tall gives you the option of compressing to finish the turn. If you're already compressed, you won't have that option.

[lcgordon]

Thanks for the info. I was so confused about the "straight legs" Because not one video of any pros actually shows them doing it.

[DmaxJC_ski]

I see now looking back at some of my videos I am compressed or broke at the waist going into the turn and trying to pull up straight after, not much but it's definitely worse on my off side.

[MrJones]

lcgordon

Go to the Master's Webcast archive from this year and do some stop action of Jason McClintock behind the boat.

[lcgordon]

Just did at 32off bent a pretty good bit. Your right straighter than lots of ppl. But as a beginning skier I just did not understand. I see the difference your talking about but its not straight in the literal meaning of the word. But for most ppl who ski too bent of knees like myself striving for dead straight is probably a good thing it will probably put us somewhere in the middle which is perfect.

[wtrskior]

@lcgordon try it, but be sure to stay dynamic! don't lock up your knees; I see this all the time. You need to be flexible and use your knees/legs as shock absorbers.

 

Look at Terry's legs as he comes into the buoy.... just about all top skiers do the same thing to a certain extent..

 

Terry Winter Body Alignment video

[lcgordon]

I did some video coaching with Chet Raley. He told me and he used the word lock to lock my knees hips and elbows. Probably because I had them all bent alot but that is the exact words he used.

[Horton]

Bottom line - if you hips are back your back leg is bent more than your front. Why is another question. Most skiers who do not run 35 ski with their front leg a lot straighter than their back leg. The hard solution is to bend your front knee and ankle forward. The easier solution is to ski with your knees straighter. Not locked but more equal.

[lcgordon]

That is a better explanation thank you. That makes more sense. Striving for that is going to be the goal now.

[UWSkier]

I think it confuses folks when we see the likes of the Winters, both Freddie and Terry, who tend to ski much more squatted. There's some serious front ankle flexion going on there to keep both legs bent about the same amount and still stay "stacked" with hips and shoulders over the middle of the boots. Most mortals can't pull that off.

[DmaxJC_ski]

some awesome info!! I will for sure be trying a few things once the weather decides to cooperate up here

[Horton]

@UWSkier

 

Most mortals can't pull that off.

 

exactly correct

[Gloersen]

@lcgordon

 

more visuals

 

[lcgordon]

Jeff Rogers is awesome. Wonder what ski he is on haha

[DmaxJC_ski]

Jeff Rodgers is a beast. I seriously have to meet him some day. I could watch his videos all day, and have them play in the background to put me to sleep at night.