Help my terrible offside turn! (And anything else) (video included)

[david_quail]

Help! I'm a newbie skier running out of season to run the course (30MPH, 15off), as was my beginning of the season goal.

 

Feedback on any and all aspects of skiing would be incredibly welcomed.

 

But in particular I feel like my offside turn is killing me (but am aware that it might be something independent of the turn itself).

 

As seen in the video, best case scenario is that it's a slow and methodical. Worst case scenario, I end up upside down in the air. Either way, 1, 3, ball are ok. But 2, or 4 will sink me.

 

Would love your thoughts and feedback!

 

30MPH, 15off, getting 4 or 5 balls but no more. 186lbs, 67' vapor (yes, unnecessarily good for my level).

 

Free skiing video below (apologies I didn't edit out the start etc).

 

 

[Vette_Boy]

David, as a fellow southpaw I believe I can help you out. First, watch your own videos here carefully. What you will see is the this. On your offside turn you're afraid of the turn, breaking at the waist and not completing the turn. By that I mean the ski is still facing down course when the boat hooks you up. If you look at your onside turn 1,3,5, you'll notice you're getting your hips around and forward BEFORE the hookup. On your offside 2, 4, 6 you're afraid of the turn. Coming into it tentatively, breaking at the waist in the mid turn, and hooking back up before the ski finishes. All I can say is....STOP THAT! LOL. On the first one when you fell, you got on the rear of the ski mid turn and lost it. The easiest solution is to make sure you let the ski FINISH the turn. When I say finish, I mean it should be facing across course, NOT down course. Once you hook up, you can't take it back from the boat. You must be settled in (shoulders square, hips forward, arms locked, head up, etc.) by the time the hookup occurs. On your onside 1,3,5 your inside (left) shoulder is leaning into the wake. That's a painful OTF (out the front) waiting to happen. Square your shoulders to the back of the boat, and DON'T EVER LET THAT GO. Your ski should never be flat on the water once you enter the course. Change edges as soon as you cross the second wake. You MUST loose the habit of pulling out to, or beyond the turn bouy. Once you get your speed up and shorter rope you can't do that, break the habit now. Change your edge upon crossing the second wake, keep your hands close to your body and only release as you transition outside the bouy. You don't have to "slam" the rear of the ski (stop the turn) until you get beyond 28 off. Once you come around the ball, get your hips forward, and bring the rope ACROSS your body to your left hand. DO NOT REACH ACROSS YOUR BODY or you'll give it all back to the boat, break at the waist and kiss your ski tip on the way in. Your "free" (outside) arm should be locked to your vest at the elbow, bring the rope back to it. Your weight needs to be more centered on the ski on your 2,4,6 (off side) turns so you don't wheelie the ski. Go to youtube and watch this 3 part video "Robert Marking / Dry Land Training for Slalom Skiing". He also has some vids of him skiing. It should help you get the right body position. Skiing the course is NOT so much about strength as it is about body position. It's ALL about body position. If your biceps are sore when you get done, you're doing it wrong! You should feel it in your shoulders and lats, if at all. The guy I skied with for years was a horse in the weight room, but struggled to run a 28 off pass. Why? because I couldn't get him to break the habit of leaning in with his inside shoulder and he just couldn't generate enough angle. The passes he made he muscled his way through, but they were few and far between. On your gate entry...when you pull out for the gate, you need to get far enough up on the boat for the rope to release (no down course pull). At that point, bring your arms across to the left side of your body, and turn your hips ONLY when you "drop in". Shoulders square, hips turned, head up, and lean away. Once you enter the course, it's very hard to generate more angle, but easy to give it back. Get more angle by getting farther up on the boat on your pull out for the gates, and drop in with your hips, not your shoulders. That will get you out to the turn early, where you'll be on your inside edge burning off speed waiting for the turn to come to you. At that point the ski will pretty much finish the turn on its own and you're just hanging on for the ride. The sight picture, you should be on your inside edge on the way OUT TO the turn, 40 feet or so UP COURSE of the ball. If you get flat on the ski, it will head directly for the turn and now you're rushing to slam out a turn, or get later and later....and by 4 ball you're done. Yes, you're gonna fall a few....dozen times before it becomes habit, but it will be worth it. The first couple times you get that proper hookup, it will terrify you as the speed will be far greater than you're used to....just hang on and don't worry about making the next turn. Get used to that speed first so you learn how to control it. Wow, this got long.....just remember..... "your worst day on the water is far better than your best day at work"! Live life 6 bouys at a time! Hope this helps.

[ScottScott]

I have just accomplished completing the course this summer, so by no means an expert, but fairly close to remembering where you are and what got me past that point......also LFF.... I think in line to what vette_boy said, but the main concept that helped my offside turn was realizing that I needed to put a little more effort (or at least thinking) into getting my hips turned across course during that offside turn, more so than on my onside. That made a big difference in making more fluid turns. The only thing I'm not sure about is the shoulders being square to the boat on your crosses, although I do see that suggested occasionally, I don't really see it in most videos I look at, especially on offside. As the arms move to the boat side, and with the pull of the boat, it will pull the shoulders around, but in concept I have tried to keep hips and shoulders more square to the ski (on both sides) and hold that through the edge change to maintain width. And I am constantly thinking about keeping handle low, and close to hips.

[Zoro957]

The best advice that I got was to make sure you are "Counter rotating" on the offside turn. My buddy helped me to understand what that meant. Swing your left arm (LLF) back on the offside turn like you are pulling a bow and arrow.

[MillerTime38]

@david_quail a lot of good advice listed. I will just keep mine simple....Get your hips up behind the boat. Work on getting into that good leverage position behind the boat and holding that position all the way through the second wake. Then you can start working on your turns.

[Vette_Boy]

Ok, I'll try to examine both Scott and Zoro here. Scott first...one thing that will help your turns, on either side....when coming into the turn, 2 things to keep in mind. 1) DO NOT "reach for the ball". If your arm is out front of you and reaching toward the ball it will be very difficult to get your hips around. 2) Rotate your hand PALM UP and pull back far enough to push your chest out, pinching your shoulder blades together. You can do this right now to get the feel of it. That's your turn position, when completing your turn ensure your bringing the rope ACROSS your body to your free hand that should already be on your outside hip. If you reach across body to grab the rope, you will be unable to achieve enough angle, ski will be flat, and you'll be forced into a bad body position. Rotating palm up and pinching your shoulder blades forces your chest out and hips forward. Stand up and do it on land like you're on your ski, legs slightly bent....NOW your weight is centered on your ski, hips up, chest out, head up.....keep your head up....if you lean your head toward the center of your rotation.....say hello to the water. Zoro...the "counter rotating" you are speaking of was just addressed for Scott...there should be no need to "swing" your arms back. Get into that position, palm up shoulder blades pinched. Your hand, forearm, and elbow should be in line with your chest. Hold your shoulders square to the boat at all times and the "counter rotating" will take care of itself. When you get the rope in both hands and the boat is going to hook you back up, you should be standing shoulders square, head up, arms locked, shoulder blades squeezed together, butt clenched, and hang on.... So you guys know, I'm no pro either however I know where you're at, just got my oldest son through it. Just getting him thru 15 off at 34 mph. My personal best is 2.5 @ 35 off, 34 mph. I'm gonna get that 35 off pass if it's the last thing I do....LOL. Been saying that for way to long now.....We ski year round on a private lake in Tx, some of the guys that live here get into 38 off and beyond. I've lived what you're going thru, and with their tips I've gotten into 35 off on a fairly regular basis. I used to struggle to get thru a 28 pass, maybe once a season when I "muscled" one out. Now it's every single time I drop into the water. Not trying to brag here, these other guys walk thru 35 off like a hot knife thru butter. Drives me NUTS they make it look so freakin easy...lol. What I'm saying is, the things I'm telling you got me from shaky 22's and very infrequent 28's to 28's every single time, 32's most of the time....and then that dadgum 35.....I'm gonna get it! I want the look from 38! Anyway, I'm not trying to belittle anyone. All those little buzz words you hear from Mapple (amazing, absolutely freaking amazing skier) and the rest are really hard for the most part to understand and put into practice. I'm trying to break it down for you in amateur terms so you can understand what it takes to make those "buzz words" work for all of us. The little motion of rolling your palms up and pinching your shoulder blades.....go try it....the lady next door went from shadowing the course without releasing the handle to releasing the handle and completing the course in 4 passes! Freakin rock star in my book! She listened, she implemented, and she won HUGE! Her husband just did it too, what did he change? Rotating palm up at the ball.....that's it! I'm telling you, it might sound weird but it works....very well. It makes a ton of those other things happen automatically, like counter rotating....you've already done it...THAT is what you've done when you rolled your palm up and pinched your shoulder blades, your body will react properly and the ski will turn itself so long as your on your inside edge on the way out to the ball. It will make your life so much easier, the ski will turn naturally at the ball. You won't be trying to "throw" it around. Anyway, this got way long yet again....sorry.....I enjoy watching people improve, love teaching kids to learn the sport.... "Live life on the edge, of a ski!"

[BrennanKMN]

Direct copy from a previous post of mine last month:

 

As someone who just coached a friend from not ever skiing to running the course at 15 off at 30MPH in 9 months you need to forget the course for a bit.

I made my friend run drills for weeks at a time. Pull out, coast and cross the wake. He wasn't allowed to attempt the course until his wake crossing was solid. Trying the course too soon will only make bad habits worse.

 

My advice. Get out of the course, slow the boat to 26-28 MPH and work solely on crossing the wake. Focus on starting your cut in with proper body position. Hips up, handle down, stacked and connected across the wake. Forget about your turns. Once you can nail the wake crossing turns will come.

 

I know it is not what you want to hear, but it will pay off ten fold in the long run. I know I hate when I am told to get out of the course and run some drills. I promise some good drills and muscle memory will make the course much easier in the long run.

 

Extra:

 

You are close to getting a stack down, you had a few good cuts. I would like to see you bring rock solid across that wake every time. Doing some drills and practice without the buoys will make that much easier to learn.

I see your shoulders coming forward at the center line almost every crossing. A solid stack will stop and that keep you feeling way more stable into the ball.

[Deep11]

Loads of advice already - I actually like a lot of what you are doing - at 30mph in rough water maintaining a strong position through the wake is tough and you do a good job in both directions (which is quite rare). Keeping working on it and handle / hips etc will get closer as the conditions get better and the speed goes up.

Re: your actual post - the offside turn is killing you - I agree. Right now it is because you are trying to turn before the ski is ready - effectively a matter of timing being out (pulling too long) and then working with what you have to keep going (falling to the back etc).

Before you can fix it for linked turns you need to experience what it should feel like. Try this:

When you are coming off the wake to your "bad side" (2,4) DONT try and turn (currently you throw yourself to the inside which is wrong - looks like what the pros do but it's not) Instead let the boat pull you up tall on to the front foot. You will glide way past where you want to turn (which demonstrates the problem). When free of the boat and gliding on the front foot, bring both hands up in front and drop the outside hand. Staying on the front foot when the ski is ready to turn then go with it.

Then it's just a matter of only putting enough power into your onside lean to get to you the point you want to turn.

So - stand tall on front foot, arms forward, drop outside arm, when the ski goes you go.

Slack line and you went to early or fell on you back foot.

Note: I would also suggest this for your onside too as it promotes good timing and body position.

 

[ScottScott]

Last 2 posts reminded me..... i agree on lots of free skiing to work on position, then on the course occasionally to measure your progress. I found that as my onside was so much better than my offside cross I had a tendency to hold the onside cross too long, I think similar to what deep11 was saying.

[Billbert]

I have no helpful advise but I am going to try a few of the tips above to try and clean up my skiing a bit. Looks like you are a close neighbour. We are on Isle Lake, just across the highway from Seba. I'm impressed you got out Saturday, it was ugly out, we didn't even pull the cover off the boat.

[gt2003]

Having the same problems mentioned above. Similar to what I've been told, just in a little different way. Time to hit the water

[ToddL]

FWIW, when I coach skiers at the level seen in the videos above, I emphasize stack stance, then "flow." This means no buoys for a while. The key is to stay within the skier's level and make that level look like a pro. Visualize the flow of what I describe below. Then, work on specific elements which you are lacking most, one at a time.

 

Consider that the skier's stack may not yet be strong and solid enough to really lean super hard against the boat's pull. So, when starting a a wake crossing, simply get stacked and in a ready-to-lean position, but don't bear down. Let the boat do the work.

Ride the boat's energy to the other side. By this I mean, don't wage war on the boat, rather exploit its power. By leaning a little less such that you can maintain stack while the boat's pull ramps as you approach the first wake, you will be stronger and more stable through the wakes. The goal is to never let anything break your stack. If it does, then you over skied or over did something action.

 

Next, recognize that your level of stack and subsequent wake crossing may not yet be generating the cross course width to be wide for buoys. So, let that go for now. Rather, concentrate on the flow and proper timing relative to the wakes. As you pass the center line of the boat's path, simply maintain (not add) your lean through the second wake. As you approach the second wake start to dial the effort down smoothly such that you flow and ski through the edge change just after the 2nd wake. When your ski first starts to glide on the turning edge, just keep the handle in, elbows touching vest, both hands on for a half second. At this instant you can rise up a little and move your hips forward over your front foot to regain your stack. Now, flow into a reach and turn with the objective of staying balanced and stacked on top of the ski. At this point the ski is going to seek a turning radius. That radius is based upon your speed, lean, width, etc. Focus on riding the ski's turn while being balanced - this will be the correct radius for your current level. You will be able to retain your stack. This means that when the ski's turn starts to bring it around and point back across the boat's path, you will be in a stacked position and able to easily add your outside hand and ready to exploit the boat for another wake crossing. This means you will turn smoothly and more fully across the boat's path before going. Now remember to just get ready to lean and just exploit the boat's energy again...

 

All of this is foundation for everything to come. As your stack strengthens and your confidence increases, so too will your intensity. The width comes from the intensity. When your intensity is giving you sufficient width, then you can round buoys. Your flow from turn to lean to edge change to turn should be smooth. The timing of when to do these things is relative to the wake and not the buoys. Thus, your efforts now will establish good habits for buoys later.

 

As a stepping stone, you can ski the "mini" course. If your site doesn't have the narrow turn buoys you can simulate it by having the driver move the boat path to between the 1-3-5 buoys and the boat guides on the 2-4-6 side of the boat path. You will not have entrance/exit gates, but start at 1 ball. The pair of boat guides for 2 ball becomes your 2 ball turn, go around both of them. Then, head to 3-ball, and then the guides for 4-ball. You are basically skiing a course that is just a tad wider than 50% of the normal slalom course. This mini course is very narrow and will mainly challenge the skier to keep the pace of wake crossings fast enough to stay in time with the course. As the skier's stack level increases and intensity increases, the skier will ski much wider than the mini course but should stay in time with the apex of the turns at or before the buoys. This is a good time to strive to "back side" the mini course.

 

Anyway, stay stacked and in a strong stance at all times. The intensity will come and then buoys will follow.

[gt2003]

Ski partner told me last night that he thought I was close to running the course if I'd actually turn going around 1 (1,3,5). He said I'm basically skiing around it now and ending up WAY down course. Well, something else to work on

[JAG]

I practiced one of these tips last night free skiing and the guys in the boat noticed an immediate improvement on my often times, weak offside. I will continue to work on rotating and letting the handle come to me, rather than reaching for it. Seems to make sense and definitely put me in a stacked position and was very easy to keep the ski in edge across the 2nd wake.

 

Thanks everyone! I might make that 32 off pass yet!

[Kellen417]

I was right where you are 4 yrs ago. All the advice here is excellent. However, I'd like to address something completely unrelated to technique, but rather physics. You even mentioned this at the end of your post.

 

I learned the hard way when I knew no better and tried for 3 weeks to run the course on an F1 at -15 and 30mph after free skiing it at 34mph + and -22 & -28.

 

I did make the course a few times on the f1 but the simple fact is there just isn't enough support underneath high performance skis designed specifically for short lines @ 34-36 mph to make skiing at 30mph any easy task.

 

I feel as much as you can try to make positive changes and ride balanced etc etc you are fighting a losing battle until you get on a ski better suited to support you at 28-32 mph.

 

A larger ski will allow for glide and balance , giving you confidence to get up over the front foot on your 2,4,6 with out dumping you over the front or skiddishly going like hell when you give it too much input. Essentially You are trying to walk a tight rope while trying to learn an already incredibly hard sport.

 

You can learn to move properly on a larger ski and carve a turn much easier. The ease of width will blow your mind. On this vapor You want to stay back because this is a comfortable place on a high performance ski at those speeds.

 

Yes, good skiers get it done when they are messing around but it's no easy task. I was accidentally pulled thru the course at 28 mph on my 66 in GT @ -22 last week. I ran it for the hell of it and damn, it was LOTS of work. I had to watch how much and when I moved to the front of the ski or it would just stop. I was always plowing water. Not an ideal situation.

 

Back when I first learned I ditched the F1 & changed to a carbon V. I immediately ran most all of my attempts at 30 -15 and got thru 34mph quickly. Best decision I ever made.

 

The coefficient x's are also awesome.

 

spending $ on a new ski sucks but it won't when your are progressing within a few rides.

 

Just my 2 cents but if I were you I'd go demo a ski designed for learning at long line and slow speeds. I think you'll be impressed

 

 

 

 

[JAG]

@Kellen417

Great post. I too switched from a F1 to a Carbon V and couldn't be happier. I'm going to put it through the course this weekend and just keep slowing down until I run some buoys. :)

[mopowpow]

@Kellen417, good point. I also ditched my higher performance ski and went with a wider ski to learn the course. It really made a difference! Wish I had listened to a friend a couple years earlier...

[Kellen417]

Thanks guys! I feel very compelled to make this point to new skiers because it can alleviate a great deal of frustration And bad habits right off the bat. Go get 'em @JAG!

 

[david_quail]

All fantastic feedback! Thank you.

 

Since posting I've had a few chances to get out spring skiing and just now back into the course. Linked is 6 passes from today as well as warm up.

 

 

I can't emphasize how much drills (dry land and on the lake seem to help). The problem with the course is you're dealing with so many variables and things to think about. All you veterans forget how many things you do naturally or through muscle memory. Doing drills helps me break these down a lot and just focus on a few key aspects. I'm a big fan of the lucky drills. Basically practicing all of the elements except the actual turn ... which I find can throw my whole entire pass off. I say this as if I'm under some impression that I don't have miles and miles and miles to go before being content with my skiing. All aspects of my skiing need a lot of work ... not the least of which is my body position ... but I've found the biggest improvements from doing these drills.

 

The biggest cue for me is hips up. "Elbows to vest", "soft ankles" ... any of those other cues ... may work for others ... but for me, I need to think all about my hips. And even then I have a bad habit of breaking a bit at the wakes, and especially the offside turn. That was the other thing that I realized. A good stacked position isn't just relevant for when passing through the wake. But for the pre turn and the turn itself. Basically the entire time you're skiing :) Again ... I have miles to go .... but before, I used to really drag the back half of the ski through the turn while the front half was sticking out at a 45 degree angle. Far from efficient. Hips up seems to make my ski flatten out.

 

As I alluded to, I agree that drills and avoiding chasing balls as long as possible is likely the key to improvement. But I'm guessing I'm not the only one who predominantly skis at a ski club where you're given a certain amount of passes per visit. 6-8 in our case. My free skiing time at the lake is limited to weekends when I can get the kids out there ... and the weather cooperates ... so few and far between. So as good as drills are, it's just tough doing them when you basically have 30 seconds to get down the course before dropping for another pass. That said, my new strategy is to do 2 passes doing lucky's drills, and then ski the course for 4-6 passes. And as much free skiing at the lake as humanly possible on weekends. It would probably be better if the ratio was more 1-1 while at the ski club ... but it's just too tempting to play in the course when you're out there.

 

Anyways. As per always, I'd love any additional feedback of the video. The first round of feedback helped a lot.

 

[david_quail]

Oh. I also switched to a radar alloy senate. MAybe it's helping ... but I'm not sure I can honestly tell the difference between that and my lithium vapor. It seems if I have good body position in either ... good things happen. If my position breaks down in either ... things look ugly.

[david_quail]

Oh one other big thing that helps me.

I think from junior and then collegiate hockey, I'm conditioned to treat turns like I would on hockey skates. That is to really try to crank them out with a lot of leg drive to force it arounde. It doesn't help when you see the pro skiers "appear" to slam on the brakes and turn on a dime. I find the more i treat my turn as simply a lean, and let physics take over, the better off I am. Again, easier said than done. Especially offside.

[JAG]

@david_quail

you're looking much better. I too am working on the land drills. Spent the weekend skiing using Robert Landing's drills (hips up, elbows locked) and I noticed the increase in speed on my off-side. I over-did it with the run (2 passes around our lake, about 6 miles), but it gave me something to focus on.

 

keep it up!

[gt2003]

Glad to see I'm in the same boat. I'm doing a little better completing the turn buy I keep falling into the trap of starting my lean, not trusting it and standing up and losing angle. I guess it's just a matter of continuing to work on it. Hopefully back on the water tonight.

 

[ToddL]

@gt2003 try to think of the finish of the turn as: "getting ready to exploit the boat"

 

So, your primary goal and job is to conclude the turn in a stacked position with the ski pointed at an acceptable direction across the boat's path. Then, wait there for the boat to "pick you up and take you to the other side."

 

"Finishing the turn" is really what this goal is all about.

 

After the boat is on you, then you can resist getting pulled out of your leverage from the pick up through the center-line.

 

When you finish the turn as described above, your resulting wake crossing will be stronger and earlier with less effort. This will give you more space and appropriate speed before the next turn. That makes the next turn easier to perform well, which makes it easier to finish ready to exploit the boat, and so on.

[ToddL]

Also, if there is any active thing that can force the finish or force more cross course direction of the ski for the off-side turn finish, it is simply thinking about pointing/pivoting the front knee where you want the ski tip to point. After the apex of the turn has passed, I can force the finish a little bit by pointing my knee across the boat's path. Hopefully, your turn will become so awesome that this tip is rarely needed.

[gt2003]

Thanks @ToddL . I will do that. The most difficult thing right now is developing the "comfortable feeling" while waiting on the boat to pick me up on my offside. It doesn't phase me on my onside but my nerves aren't quite there yet on the offside. This is going to be my prevailing thought next time on the water. I really feel once I get the feel of waiting on the boat and experience it a few times that I'll be on my way. Any other pointers are appreciated. I end up many times maybe a foot inside of 2 so I'm not SUPER far away. It's just developing the confidence right now...I think!

[david_quail]

@ToddL and to everyone else: What are you looking at as you ski the course. I *think* I'm always pretty much looking at the back of the boat except for when I look for a moment at the ball I'm going to round. Ha, well, I also have a bad habit of staring at my ski during the turn, since I want to check to see if I'm managing to ride it flat. But other than that, I actually havent thought about what to look at.

In particular, what do you look at during the pre-turn and then through to connect?

 

A friend suggested during the pre-turn to start looking where you want to go, and you'll turn and go there. So towards the opposite shore well before the next ball. This makes sense and I tried it with some success, but it doesn't seem consistent with what it looks like the pros are doing.

[ToddL]

I am generally looking "up" (level, at the horizon). Looking down at anything is bad.

 

Leaning - looking roughly across to the other side, somewhere around 5 ft before the next turn buoy.

Edge change - looking ahead to determine my speed, direction, space, width; this helps me decide when to release and allow the ski to cast out and apex.

Pre-turn - looking down course (if at 2 ball, looking at 4, etc.), but using peripheral vision to confirm that I will round the buoy as expected. Also, this is a good time to keep head upright and eyes level with the horizon for improved balance.

Finish of the turn - my head and eyes move with my shoulders which follow my hips which are rotating and moving from down course to cross course. Still, ideal to keep head up and eyes level.

 

Different skiers look at diff things depending upon what they want/need to accomplish. Typically, your head moves with your eyes and your shoulders move with your head. If you want to keep your shoulders open while leaning, then look at the boat. If you want to rotate your shoulders across course, then look to the opposite side or shore. There are some skiers who have practices and developed a skill of looking/moving their head while keeping the shoulders pointed elsewhere. Just know that is a practiced skill. Normal peoples' shoulders are influenced by where the head is.

 

Watch video of Seth Stisher or Terry Winter or Will Asher. Then, watch Nate Smith. Then, watch Chris Parrish. Different methods of where to look, where head is pointed. Probably different reasons for each skier.

 

I like to watch Will Asher ski. When he is in his zone, he looks calm, controlled, strong and smooth. If I am visualizing practicing a pass, that's my vision.

 

Just watch him -32 through -38. Yep.

[ToddL]

These slow-mo videos make it easier to see where the skier is looking.

 

[david_quail]

3 of my favorite skiers to watch. Amazing.

Thanks again so much for all the tips! Very very helpful.

[ToddL]

@david_quail - take a look at your own video posted June 12. Specifically, look at the turn at time stamp 2:19. It was different from the others. You had your hips a little more forward coming into it, you let the ski cast out and roll on edge but stayed balanced with front foot pressure, you rode that front foot through the finish of the turn, and the ski turned. This is part of the secret to off side turns. They are not a push the rear of the ski around and or lean back type of turn. They are a carve the edge with ski in the water type of turn. Look for that at 3:13 and 5:11. Now look at all of the off-side turns. Do you see the difference? Carve that front foot, use the skis edge, finish with the front knee pointing where you want to go.

[nzguy]

@david_quail @gt2003 i'm skiing 15off 32-34mph. So take this for what its worth. As far as what to look at goes, I had a lesson at Ozski resort last year that was a bit of a revelation. she told me once I knew I was going to round the ball (so before I got to the ball) to look across the course at the next ball, 5-10ft up course of it. I didn't ask what she saw in my skiing that made her give me that advice, but I think I was drawing out my turns too much especially off side. Probably like @gt2003.

The result was that that my turns were much quicker and the hookups much better. I didn't get that feeling of slack rope half way around my off side that makes me wait until the slack goes before I can lean again and finish the turn. It worked so well that I hit the ball a few times because I finished the turn way further up course than I was used to, and once ended up completing the turn fully up course of the ball!

It feels weird to do and I still forget to do it, especially when I'm working on other things. Its still not natural, but I definitely recommend giving it a go, especially if your turns are drawn out and you end up a long way down course during a turn.

The other thing that works for me getting around my offside turn is to counter rotate. Again it feels very unnatural to the point i dont do it often but when I do and get it right I turn in a smooth arc, stay more centered on the ski, hips have more of a tendency to stay up, and the hookups seem smooth and more predictable.

That's what works for me anyway. Now if only I could do it consistently!

 

[m_pags]

I skied @theboardingschool in April with coaching from @FWinter & Manon, and was having the same issues. Fred's observation was that I was bringing may hand back to the handle way to soon. This was causing my turn to basically stop and point my ski directly at the next ball. They preached patience and to allow my ski to come back under the rope before grabbing the handle. It felt like my hand was off the handle for ever but when I did it my turns on both sides became much smoother with better position and a lot more cross course angle.

of my last pass with them. I still have a lot to work on.

[gt2003]

Just watched a video of Seth coaching and talking about coming into the turn stacked and then leading with the hip and how that should shoot the ski out there. It all makes sense on dry land. I'm heading out tonight so putting together in my brain now what I plan to take to the water. Right now I think it is "Trust the lean on the offside".