Help me understand differences in skis

[paco]

First off, I apologize for my lack of terminology, that is if i get it wrong... I am somewhat new to the course as haven't got to try many different skis. My journey started this time two years ago, fall of 2014. I was riding an old 66" kd 7000 that I really struggled with and come to find out it was too short for me. I'm 6' 200lb. A ski partner at the time loaned me a radar senate, older style, and I could run it at 30mph. Got a chance to get a good deal in an ho a2 and bought it in the off season.

 

Spring of 2015, start off on the ho and maybe skied twice, both bad ski sessions, then a back injury unrelated to skiing ended my season!

 

Spring of 2016, April and may really struggling to get three or four bouys. I am convinced it's the ski although this one is long enough for me. 67.5". Heck, it's meant to run 36mph, not 30! I sell it and buy a used ho coefficient x super light. It's my current ski and was hesitant to buy after realizing it's a 69". It's supposedly the predecessor of the s2. In this window I was skiless for about a week, a buddy says he has an old one I can try. 67" d3 nomad. Literally three passes at 30mph, just enough to get used to the ski, and I'm effortlessly running 30mph. Up to 32mph and I'm struggling a bit and the new to me ski comes in. I try it for a while and back to the d3, all the while really focusing on correcting my form.

 

Fast forward to now, I am getting close to bumping up to 34mph. Making more runs at 32 than not. I keep trying to go back to my ho as it's my ski and not a loaner. Lol. And it keeps whipping me. I can turn it better, but have a very hard time getting a good pull across the wake, which seems opposite considering its the longer ski.

 

After rambling, what would be a good upgrade for the d3 nomad? This ski is literally wore out! Huge handle dings on both sides of the ski repaired with jb weld the guy I got it from just can't believe it's still going. Countless sets on this ski. I keep leaning towards a radar senate, either graphite or lithium as I know if I can get my form right, I know I'll progress quickly! This part of the equation is very frustrating by the way, I have the physical capability to get very shortline, but just have years and years of bad habits to correct!

 

Let me know what you guys think, I'm just now starting to realize the differences in skis and would be nice to find one that will turn, for me, like the ho but will "go" like the d3...

[Shakeski]

Demo, Demo, Demo. I know it sucks to hear when you are looking for direct input - but that truly the best way to know what you like - cannot stress that enough.

[paco]

@Shakeski forgot to mention that part. No one within 1 1/2-2hr drive to get a demo. Then I gotta find somewhere to ski it....

 

Guess I'm just hoping someone remembers a nomad and would know a recommendation as to where to start. The two ho's I've had are good skis, but I don't seem to ride them as well as the d3 and what I vaguely remember about the Senate.

[DW]

@paco: It can be easy to recommend a ski that works for me or the particular user, very challenging to recommend for someone else as each individual likes certain or different characteristics. So, as you notice lots of ballers recommend demoing a ski (various threads on this site), which is truly the best way to determine what you like or what works. I also suggest reading each of @Horton's ski reviews for insight, find various comments from other ballers to see what each likes or indicates as strengths of a certain ski.

 

If you happen to like a certain ski and how it feels / performs, looking at that brands newer offerings is probably a great place to start, calling them and asking how a certain ski compares to the one you happen to like could be an option. Also, many companies offer a ski demo program that allows a return if you don't like it. Other than that, you can take a flyer and hope for the best.

[Orlando76]

Demo demo demo or keep buying skis. Not to be ugly. That 1.5 hour drive is better and cheaper than buying over and over. I was the same stats as you. Loved the TX SL. Settled for 69" SenAte. Once I started getting the course realized the senate was like riding a wet noodle. Tried the CX SL, too much speed, couldn't control the turn. Ran a 68" D3 Quest 45, handled great all the way around but felt like I needed to go up in size. Found ~68" Mapples to fit me perfect. My point being skis aren't interchange for one person to the next nor could one predict how another person will ski on a particular ski. Gotta demo.

[Chef23]

D3 has a demo program where they will send you skis to try for a small fee. H2OProshop also has a program where you commit to buying a ski and they work with you for a recommendation for your first ski. If you don't like it you ship it back to them and they send you something else.

 

If you really like the Nomad maybe try another D3 from the demo program like a Quest 45 or an Arc in a 67 if you like the 67" Nomad.

[Orlando76]

Also try to find a coach if there's one within a reasonable distance to you. Around here they seem to have many skis in their circulation that you could try plus you'll get coaching which will get you that much farther.

[paco]

Thanks guys. Guess I really knew the answer to my question before I asked, but after buying three and selling two with no luck, I figured it would be worth a shot! My biggest fear is dropping 1500 bucks on a ski I hate and having to sell for 7-800 just to get rid of it. Guess I'll keep up the used game if something catches my eye.

[BraceMaker]

The d3 demo is a good deal. They send you a lightly used ski. You can buy it at a discount - think they are <900 instead of 1500. The demo fee is applied 100% to cost of either the used ski or if you want a brand new one you send the demo back for it.

 

Out 60 bucks if you hate it.

[wtrskior]

I'd go for the D3 demo program, they have 3 or 4 comp skis in their quiver and all do something a bit different. Traditionally D3s work well for a variety of skier types. Can't go wrong

[Cent]

Reading all this I have to agree use a Demo program. If I were you I would try D3. They make a quality product.

[paco]

@BraceMaker now that you mention it, seems I remember reading somewhere you can buy a demo ski from them at a discounted price.... That is an awesome deal!

 

While somewhat on subject a 68" ski is supposedly the correct length for my weight. I've skied 66"-69" skis and feel a 67" is the sweet spot. Is this abnormal to feel better on a shorter ski? Or should I be looking for a 68" since it's recommended for my size? Or am i over thinking this part of ski selection?

[Orlando76]

I myself am surprised to hear you prefer a 67" at 200lbs at 32-34. I was up to almost 210 and when I rode the 68 quest I kept saying I wished they made it in a 69.

[BraceMaker]

Here's the link to the website for the demo; http://www.d3skis.com/category-s/65.htm

 

Some of the pricing looks to have changed since the last demo I did. Either way great way to try D3.

 

 

 

[paco]

@Orlando76 yes, 67" feels better at 32. It actually did almost as well at 30, but the longer ski had a little less drag so it was better. Once again, think it's just a difference in the ski shapes. Nomad just seems to set on top of the water better for some reason, also way easier to keep my weight forward. Seems on HO skis no matter how far forward I move my bindings forward I still end up with my weight back.

 

@BraceMaker thank you for the link! I'll check it out. I actually best sealed the deal on a 2015 graphite senate. As i mentioned earlier, I've skied an older senate. Strada shape I think, and really liked it although I only tried it for two sets. I'm giving used one more try, then d3 here I come!

[paco]

@skibrain thank you for that list of oldest to newest! At least I'll know what's what. Is the nomad-arc line a 34mph version where the quest is a 36 mph line? Or just two separate lines for different preferences.

As for fin measurement, I've only checked the skis to make sure they're either what's recommended here by Horton or factory specs. I do try different binding locations and with/without wing.

[Glydon]

@paco , a 67 inch ski @ 200 lbs and 6 ft seems way short at 32 IMO. For reference I am 5'9 , 165 ish and just purchased a 65.5 HO A2 and I called them before I purchased as reference chart suggested my weight should call for 66.5, they said for 36mph 65.5 is correct . I would be more inclined to believe based on what you are saying , the A2 just needs to be setup properly with the fin/binding. Call HO they will point you in the right direction. SUPER customer support!

[ToddL]

Sorry to throw a variable into the mix, but things like binding placement and fin settings can make a great, perfectly-selected ski ride poorly while another poorly-chosen, tired ski with optimal fin/binding settings might ride better.

 

So, the question is this: Do you know how to measure your fin and binding locations? If not, I suggest @SkiJay's Fin Whispering book. Even if the advanced concepts are not sinking in now, the first several chapters provide an excellent foundation of knowledge about ski parts, tools, how to measure, why, etc.

 

It may help you to understand the differences if you had insights into the current fin/binding settings and compared each to the recommended "stock" settings for that year/make/model of ski.

 

If you don't know the year, you can google the make and model and use the image search until you find matching pictures. Then, go to those pages to look for clues about the year of those skis. Once you have the year/make/model, then google again for fin settings for your year make model. Possibly a site or discussion will come up. If not, then call the factory for the make and ask them to look it up in their records.

 

Once you have the stock settings, make note any differences with the current settings vs stock. Again, the Fin Whispering book can be used to determine how those differences should impact the ski's performance. See if that matches up with what you are feeling.

[Than_Bogan]

I don't think anyone has yet mentioned that the binding is usually more important to the feel than the ski. Many new slalomers don't realize that you need to transfer your favorite bindings onto each ski or the comparison will be mostly meaningless: unless you want to compare the bindings!

[paco]

@ToddL yes I already mentioned I use correct fin measurements and know how to measure. Most of my issue is lack of skis to try.

 

@Than_Bogan yes, I have a new Wiley's and rtp.

[customski]

I went from a Connelly Concept (94) to a 67"D3 Nomad and went from being stuck at 2-3@28 off to running it back to back on the first set on the Nomad. I am about 200lb as well, my next ski was a 68 Nomad rcx and then a used 67" X7. I felt the same as you on other brands, could turn them but not accelerate through the wakes.

I have skied on Quests, Fusion, both Helixs and the Arc. I think you should try a newer D3 as well as they just seem so user friendly straight up. I think my favourite was probably the X7 but the new Arc certainly felt very good. There are a lot of D3's around here and they have a reputation for skiing well straight up, other brands obviously ski well too but seem to take longer to adapt too and more setting up.

That's my two bobs worth. Good luck

You asked whether the Quest was more a 36 ski than say an X7.

I don't think any were designed to be a slower speed ski than another. I think @skibrain would confirm that.

[LeonL]

Look @paco you obviously ski well and like D3. If money is an object, shop ski-it-again. I'm sure you'll find several options and save some bucks. RCX is a very good ski, but all of them would be old. Look for a quest or quest 45. If money is not an object, go with the D3 demo program. They'll send you two skis. They put a $1270 hold on your card, $600 for,each ski plus $70 for shipping. They send you a prepaid return shipping label. If you like one send the other back. You get charged for the ski you keep. The $70 goes toward ski purchase. If you don't like either box 'em up, send them back and it costs you $70 Hard to beat that deal. Stop chasing your tail and buy the brand that you're having the most success with. Ditto @Than_Bogan. ALWAYS use the same bindings to demo all skis! Oh, by the way, always check fin setting on the demos before use.

[paco]

@customski exactly the info I was looking for. Thank you for your insight!

 

@LeonL thank you for the pricing info! This is my next move if the radar works out. I found a used 67" quest for $800 but doesn't that sound high? Regular quest is 4-5 years old now isn't it?

 

[LeonL]

Quest first came out in 2013. Yeah, that's kinda high for quest if it's not a quest 45.

[paco]

Update: took one more chance at a used ski. I mentioned earlier that the only other ski that performed well for me was a radar senate. It was fall of 2014 when I tried it and it was a couple years old. I'm just assuming the strada shape. I received a lightly used 2015 radar senate graphite yesterday. Back to back 32mph runs and 3@34mph on my first set!!! I love this ski! Keep in mind beginning of the year i struggled to get 3@30mph. After working on my form and keeping my weight forward I could run 32mph somewhat consistently on the d3, but still a lot of ugly passes. Can't wait to get on it again! Somehow, for me, this ski does everything that I liked about the old nomad and then some.... And then some more!!!!! I've always loved to ski, and now I love it more!