Bindings suggestion

[mundo]

This is my first post and I am very excited about slalom, I am 51 years old and returned to skiing a little over 2 years ago after recovering from some serious health issues (Hearth attack) and I have set a personal goal to run the course! I just purchased a CX superlite at almost 50% off and I am trying to decide on which bindings to use, currently I am using a TX with double attack boots but I am considering going either to a rear toe plate or one of the new shorter rear boots since I am having trouble maintaining the proper hip forward stance with the double boots, one of my main concerns is safety as I really do not want to break/strain an ankle so I am considering the reflex, is that overkill? Enhanced control will be a bonus, although I do not think I will need it at my level.

[dhofert]

I cant help but will be watching this closely as well. I am just getting started but think I may like the shorter rear boot. Just kind of poking my head around for now though.

 

[aupatking]

Reflex. It's saved me twice, from odd situation falls that would have broken ankles, or legs in just about anything else. I broke my ankle, severely in a fall that I would have walked away from in my Reflex setup, and have done a lot of testing since.

Like everyone likes to say, nothing is completely safe, but I trust my safety to Reflex.

Radar Vapor boots fit great and seem to have a consistent, safe release.

[ESPNSkier]

Welcome @mundo! Great choice of ski for learning the course and beyond. I bought a CX Superliite this past spring and love it. I also broke an ankle years ago in Animals and was looking for a safer boot. I went with the Radar Vapor boots and feel that they release much easier than rubber. They are also much more comfortable.

[ALPJr]

I'm very happy with the 2016 XMax boots on my VTR. The 2017 XMax look nice too and are 2cm taller. I'd recommend either for the SL CX

[gregy]

Reflex, the new OH hardshell (edge), Mikes overall binding system, OB4. I haven't had sore ankle since I switched to Reflex. The Hardshells take a little getting used to but I think in the long run the extra edge control helped my skiing.

[OldboyII]

@gregy I'm also thinking about hardshel for next season. Could you pls tell what differences could meet one who just started with hardshel? Is it adviseable to go to first (in the next season) ski holiday with hardshel without trying? My home spot will be too cold to try.

[wtrskior]

I have never used a hardshell but see them as a more advanced system. Starting out find something more forgiving IMO. Not only that but you want a boot that will release more easily as a more novice skier. The problem with this in waterskiing is you then run into pre release issue's.

 

In alpine ski racing a common drill we used to do was remove the upper cuff on our boots from the lower shell; you need to really focus on your core and leg muscles and rely less on the boots to keep you in your skiing position. There is crossover here to waterskiing

 

 

[mundo]

I think I might just go ahead and order the reflex new supershell with R rear binding, now, for sizing should I go by the chart? It seems much smaller than the shoe size I normally wear (11), Which source do you recommend to order from?

[gregy]

@mondo yes go with there recommended sizes. I used the intuition aqua liner and like it, I had to molded it several times before i got it. Stuffed tissues between and around my toes was my final solution. I bought my through H2Oproshop. Miami Nautique is a good source too.

 

@OldboyII I was on D3 T-factors for several years, which I had sore ankles nearly all summer so decided to change. I went with black tops first but with 13.5 foot they were too short and my toes were hurting. Luckily the Supershell came out its was longer and had a lot more toe space. Going from Rubber to Blacktops was pretty seamless. However the Supershells are stiffer and took more getting used to, to me it gives more edging feel in the turn. Once I got used to the Supershell it was money.

 

There is a problem in my opinion with the Reflex release in that the screws between the mounting brackets and release arms grind out holes they go through. The problem is screws are fully treaded and the treads act like saw teeth to cut out the hole in the arm. I used screws with longer smooth shanks and cut them to proper length on my ski. On my partners ski I had to drill the holes in the mounts and go to a larger 10-32 screw with smooth shank. Also you need to inspect the release and keep it lubricated.

 

I tried the OB4 system and I think MOB has addressed the shortcomings that I saw.

 

 

[Garn]

Since you have an HO, why not go with HO's new Syndicate Hardshell which is their version of a Reflex?hosports.com/product-detail.php?id=waterski-boots-syndicate-hardshell

 

Garn

[Waternut]

I also recommend Reflex. Some guys say they're more for advanced skiers but I disagree. Some of the worst and most damaging falls I took were while learning the course at slow speeds and long line lengths. If I had had a Reflex boot at the time, I don't think I would've gotten as hurt as all in the majority of those crashes.

[gregy]

@Waternut I agree. Wish I had done it sooner.

[Deanoski]

Reflex for all ability's you canset the release tight or loose you choose

 

it has saved me many times

[gmut]

Wileys

[OldboyII]

Hmm... pre weekend mind game...

What if we will take (just for example) new Radar Carbitex boot w/o plate, will change upper laces to static ones, will attach heel block and will use it on Reflex Plate? Instead of reflex hardshell.

Funny?

Why?

:D

 

[wtrskior]

So i entirely disagree that reflex should be used for "any" ability as the release setting is only 1 component of safety. The OP is just looking to run the course, not 34mph or 22off or 38off...

 

From reflex:

THE REFLEX BINDING IS A HIGH PERFORMANCE BINDING AND IS DESIGNED FOR EXPERIENCED SKIERS ONLY.

 

@Waternut no chance your most damaging falls are at long line and slow speed, unless you are still there and have yet to experience max speed and shortline! The water is harder and the pull stronger as the boat speed up and the rope shortens. The difference is that newer skiers do fall more but at 26 to 30mph where you are to learn there is nowhere near the force on your body.

 

The fact the reflex system requires much more attention and maintenance also is a reason a newer skier should look elsewhere. I've seen so many guys on reflex of many abilities with loose tow bars and positioning screws and on setting's that either pre release or don't release even after much testing. You need to focus on skiing not high end equipment maintenance or setup at the early stages.

 

Ho now sells the syndicate boot; which is the same basic system as reflex; why didn't they call it the "freeride" boot? Or the "cx boot"?. It's targeted at the syndicate skier; the high end course skier and for a reason.

 

Many newer soft boot systems share the release characteristics of a slip on shoe but are also more comfortable, easiet to get on/off and you don't need soap compared to rubber and almost no maintenance.

 

@Deanoski you used them from 28 & 30mph long line up to 38off? Reread the OP, his goal is to run the sLalom course not 38off or even 34mph...

 

@gmut I also disagree that a wiley is what a newer skier wants, unless they are custom build single overlay low wrap and easy to get on/off. A radar prime or ho freemax open toe soft shell will offer support comfort and safety at this level.

 

You guys need to read between the lines of what the posters are requesting and tear ability. I can't believe the recommendation's here.

 

 

[Waternut]

@wtrskior I'll respectfully disagree on many levels. First off, every single piece of water sports equipment has the same stupid warning of "we're not liable, for experiences skiers only, blah blah blah." So to say Reflex's statement is more sincere than every other company out there is purely a matter of opinion.

 

As for harder falls at faster speeds and shorter line lengths... I agree that the potential for harder falls is there. However, experience reigns in once you're getting into 32, 35 off and beyond and better decisions are made, better posture has been developed, and I will say that you start to learn when you can push and when you should give up. You aren't going to pull like there's no tomorrow for 3 ball like you did at 30 mph and 15off because you now know that there is a tomorrow and you might not participate tomorrow if you go for it. So yes...3 broken ribs and a torn IT band all happened at 30 mph and below. I may have gotten a slightly sore ankle after getting the Reflex but that's about the worst I've had at 36mph, 34mph and up to 35off.

[OldboyII]

Any boot does not prevent from injury if used in not proper way.

If boot will not release one may get very serious damage at the very moderate speed and very long rope. At my first skiing season I torn hamstring in OTF in soft open toe O'Brien Sector boot because nobody instructed me not to overtighten upper laces.

[TWB]

A front Attack and a rear toe should be just fine for you. I skied well with that set-up for two years. I transitioned to a reflex for two years and now use a Radar Vapor. If you want something with more lateral stability than the Attack without going to a hard shell, the Vapor is a great choice.

[gmut]

In 1985 when I started the sport I used Wileys and 31 years later after some experimentation with other binding systems I still use Wileys....... and yes @wtrskior you can get them customized,fairly inexpensively, to suit your skiing ability.IMO, I think stock Wileys would be just fine.

[mundo]

Very helpful suggestions, although quite different opinions and experiences I went to the course this past Friday and talked to some of the skiers there, most seemed to prefer the Reflex black shell (some of them modified), a few the Goode and the rest traditional rubber wraps. I think I will give the Reflex a try, just trying to decide which one to order, the original, white cuff or supershell 2.0. Opinions?

[Chef23]

The Radar boots are very good and have been safe for me. Like every binding there is some risk. The Radar Strada (now Vapor) was a very easy transition for me from rubber. I tried a Reflex for a few months and it took 6-8 sets before I could run to my practice average. For most skiers the transition from rubber to hardshell takes some time.

[Waternut]

The black shell offers a little more resistance moving forward which is the major benefit as seen by many people. However, most people who modify the black shell remove the plastic creating that resistance making it more like a white cuff without the flexion brake. I messed up my ankle pretty bad by continuously over flexing the black shell after modifying mine. The white cuff is free to move forward and back without much friction and there is an adjustable limiting strap to help prevent ankle injuries. Haven't tried the new Supershell but my understanding is it's basically a slightly stiffer white cuff shell with a few bells and whistles that some people feel promote stability. I feel as though they don't do anything but that's my opinion.

[aupatking]

I run a modified black at -22 and -28 34mph. I removed the inner rear plastic and added a flexion brake, in essence, making a stiffer white top setup. I also heated and got rid of a lot of the arch, but that was really just for a better fit for my foot. I like the fit of the black over the super shell. It fits much more snugly on my forefoot and the upper is a different feel as well.

I tested the hell out of it before skiing it, with a plate I made screwed to a PT balance board. Even tried a couple different liners.

I don't tell anyone to make the mods I did. Actually, don't make any if you aren't going to be willing to throw the boot away if it feels you've done something bad.

If you want to pull something out of the box and run it, I'd go with a Vapor setup.

[mundo]

@Waternut Thank you, that was very clear, what do you personally use? I received the ski today so hopefully I will get the bindings in a week.

[Waternut]

@Mundo I run the white cuff boot and have the flexion brake on the most restrictive setting since that's about all the flex my ankle has anyway. I used to use the thick liner but it started falling apart so I switched to an intuition heat molded liner which is a bit stiffer.

[ScottScott]

I think a soft open toe with RTP would be a good/cost effective approach at this point. As @OldboyII alluded to, don't tighten too tight....you want to make sure you will come out. I'm actually on a cheap obrian X9 currently. It only has one lace, but I took out of the upper loops, Many have separate upper laces that you can just snug up, while tightening the lower. I always keep it so I can lift my heel passed the ankle and can kick it off in the water without loosening the strings and it comes off when needed with no problem. I am hoping to go to the MOB with hardshell maybe next spring though for more control/edging.