Centurion Carbon Pro canned?

[Horton]

@RAWSki long link Panda

http://media.tumblr.com/fe497dd337d9af8479bb6398b9565d16/tumblr_inline_mg6n5ltl6X1rxe4lt.gif

 

[RAWSki]

OUH! got to use the preview option next time

[Horton]

Back to the original subject of this thread. I believe the answer can be found here

 

[lpskier]

Hers news for you: CC might be happy if a "Supreme 196" ate into 200 sales. The bean counters at Nautique and CC would love to have additional room in Nautique's production schedule to build higher dollar/large profit margin G boats. If they could do that while promoting another CC brand, they just might be tickled pink. Hopefully, though, they feel a responsibility to the product that kept CC relevant and profitable for several decades.

[RAWSki]

Just like the auto industry the boat companies need to build what the majority of consumers want, and make a nice profit at it. I think (Hope!) CC-Holdings with Nautique, Centurion and Supreme are being positioned to focus on specific market niches and will be able to provide crafts that fit the consumers wants, needs and budgets.

[Roger]

Took my first ride behind the 17 tonight. Like the previous years, no wake to speak of and a very smooth pull. Just ran 6 28s (34.2), but a comfortable feel like last year's boat. Drove for Paul for his first ride (4 32s and 2 35s). The rudder needs some torque, but one thing I noticed is it was pretty solid on the 1,3,5 side which is where I thought the previous boat was weak. I'll know more after some rudder work and a few more driving sessions, but my initial feeling is that an improvement has been made. One other thing, this 6.0 liter engine is raw water cooled which is a change from last year. Summary: I liked it!

[RAWSki]

That sounds great @Roger, 6L Raw water cooled? Is it still a semi closed system with heat exchanger receiving lake water to cool the antifreeze, I love that set up and would be surprised that PCM changed it....maybe it's an option now?

[Roger]

No exchanger, straight raw water like the 5.7 was. This is also the case for the new 5.3 and 6.2 engines (I skied a set behind Nate Smith's new 2017 6.2 and it is raw water cooled). I really don't see why a ski boat needs a closed system anyway. I'd rather not pay for something I don't need (would not consider taking my boat into salt water for example).

[oldjeep]

Thought that they used the semi closed cooling on the 6.0L due to the aluminum heads and the increased dissimilar metal corrosion you get there when running swamp water through them. Not an awesome change.

[Roger]

Not sure why the quality of he coolant would make any difference. Anywhere dissimilar metals are touching would be the bolts (head bolts and exhaust and intake manifold bolts) which should never see coolant. Everything else rides on gaskets.

[RAWSki]

I liked the semi closed because it made winterization really easy and there was no fear of freeze damage to the heater core.

[Roger]

@RAWSki - agreed, for those of you where it can freeze, this is a loss.

[oldjeep]

@Roger because coolant contains corrosion inhibitors. The metals don't need to be touching physically just connected via the conductive liquid (dirty water) so the gaskets don't solve the issue. This is an example of the sort of thing that can happen with cast block/aluminum heads and raw water

http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu290/npcatena/DSCN1607.jpg

 

[Roger]

@oldjeep - Yes, coolant contains corrosion inhibitors, but that has nothing to do with dissimilar metals. The coolant should never touch any place where dissimilar metals come together (head and manifold bolts). I will agree that raw water may allow corrosion to occur faster of course.

[oldjeep]

Galvanic corrosion (dissimiliar metal) does not occur from the pieces touching it occurs when they are connected by an electrolyte - dirty water. has nothing to do with the head bolts. The aluminum heads act as an anode in the process and get eaten away.

[Horton]

@Jody_Seal would you please get in here and referee

[Roger]

Interesting, never seen anything like that and we built and ran L88 big blocks with plain water when I was in high school. How "dirty" does the water have to be?

[oldjeep]

Has to do with the conductivity of the impurities, hard to give an answer to "how dirty". The question is really "how conductive"

[Roger]

My current lake is pretty clean (looking), but the lake I learned on was pretty awful and I could see that water containing enough crap to allow the sort of electrolytic conductivity you're speaking of. Don't know why they dropped it except possibly cost. Aren't the 5.3 and 6.2 liter engines from PCM equipped with aluminum heads as well? They are also raw water cooled now.

[DanE]

@Roger How many years did you spend in highschool?

A corrosion problem like @oldjeep describes obviously gets worse over time. A promo owner never get to see it but the subsequent owners will.

[oldjeep]

@Roger 5.3 and 6.2 have aluminum blocks and heads

[Roger]

@DanE - Good point :wink: Some of those L-88s we had for 5 or 6 years (no, I was not in high school that long, just 10th through 12th) before opening them up. That also may not be long enough and I can't really remember when we started using coolant (we were too poor in high school). It would be interesting to get PCM's take on why they feel it's no longer needed since most of the engine options now have aluminum heads.

[Mateo_Vargas]

I don't see many of the older MasterCrafts with the LT-1 aluminum heads making it past 1000 hrs. I notice a lot of them for sale with rebuilt motors.

[MISkier]

Corrosion aside, I'm more worried about silt and other particulates circulating through the block and hardening into concrete that leads to a melted piston, etc.

[DW]

Just as a data point for the discussion. Hour meter on my slalom tug turned over 1000 this year. I installed aluminum heads, intake manifold & aluminum exhaust manifolds prior to hitting 100 hours so they have accumulated over 900 hours. Two zinc anodes in exhaust manifolds, engine block is cast iron. Cooling system is raw water, lake is typical Michigan 'swamp' lake that requires weed control via chemical applications and has a mucky bottom. Visibility is only a few feet. So far, all parts look great, no galvanic corrosion and coolant passages are all clear. Water does no favors for the heater core, they don't last very long so certainly the water is somewhat corrosive as an additional reference. Hope that helps.

 

I go for minimum weight, so a raw water system is desirable to me from that aspect.

[bishop8950]

In NorCal our lake water gets very hard and is tough on engines. There are some promo guys that refuse to get a raw water cooled boat to run on their hardwater lakes

[Roger]

@oldjeep - "5.3 and 6.2 have aluminum blocks and heads"

And the exhaust manifolds?

[oldjeep]

@Roger

pcmengines.com/engines/hyperformance-five/

 

•All Aluminum Construction of the block, heads and exhaust system allow the utilization of an open loop cooling system, the most effective, reliable and maintenance-free system in the marine industry.

[Roger]

@oldjeep - Thanks! Guess I could have looked it up myself :o

[Zman]

@oldjeep Just to clear up the galvanic corrosion discussion. There does have to be a complete electrical loop - through the electrolytic solution (the raw water) and also a physical connection between the two dissimilar metals. The bolts can be that connection when there is a gasket between the metals. But, there does need to be some connection.

In closed systems, the anti-freeze inhibitors are to help prevent "normal" corrosion. But, if the inhibitor increases conductivity, it can help increase galvanic corrosion.

That said, some raw water can still be very corrosive to some metals, even without the presence of galvanic action.

[Jordan]

***I don't see many of the older MasterCrafts with the LT-1 aluminum heads making it past 1000 hrs. I notice a lot of them for sale with rebuilt motors.***

 

@"Mateo Vargas"

LT-1s are excellent motors, but are somewhat prone to overheating (the early versions anyway) , causing the heads to warp. This is why there are many rebuilt ones for sale. If they haven't suffered that fate, or, if they had the fix for the cooling system done they go a long time. I have one in a 1993 Mastercraft with 1700 hours that pulls as strong as ever.

[unksskis]

@Jordan what is the cooling system fix? I have a 97 Lt-1

[sixball]

For me living on a lake my ski tug is just that! I don't use it to cruise so if I was buying today I would downsize in a hart beat. I did not get much in extra with my Rlxi for that reason its a ski tug. We have a pontoon for guests and cruising. I would go to closed bow also. If I looked at a new boat the C.P. might be the ticket. If used the CC196. I am an old fart and think pickles should come in a jar not from a boat dealer. Hat the look!

[RAWSki]

Can't agree with @sixball more, I'm in the same situation and now that the kids are grown no need for an open bow at all. The CP and a "toon" works perfect for me.

[DW]

Another minimal ski tug advocate, but market pressure appears to dictate lots of extra bling and versatility as the preferred direction at least up to this last swath of design (easy step over transom / limited locker space) offerings. Side note - it is interesting to see the explosion of pontoon boats on smaller inland lakes.

[Cent]

as with the last two posters the design and wakes of the Carbon Pro made it my first choice.

[Horton]

FYI the Carbon Pro is an official 2017 USAWS boat - Click here

[swc5150]

I'm not earning another panda by attempting to link an article, but Centurion had a press release on the 2018 CP today. This quote peeked my interest...

 

"Centurion is practicing the art of continuous improvement by making way for a more versatile 3-event towboat with broader appeal and a more accessible price point."

[bigskieridaho]

@swc5150 I can't find such a link about the 2018 CP

[bishop8950]

Go to centurion website and look under media. As far as I know they have great concepts on what to do to with this boat but need to test and agree all the options on branding and pricing. It's a work in progress.

[swc5150]

@bigskieridaho

It's on planetnautique's homepage under "Official Correct Craft News".

[Horton]

@bigskieridaho the new press release is basically the same as what I published a few weeks ago. Here is the link to the new one

 

@Ob1 yes it is.

[rodecon]

Just another viewpoint from my perspective and the place I am at in life: with 3 kids and only having the luxury of 1 boat currently an open bow ski boat is the ticket for this family, can completely understand the closed bow preference as well, I am just not there yet, I feel that there are big markets for both.

[Horton]

I actually do not understand not wanting an open bow. Why not? I would hardly ever use one but the resale is always better.

[rodecon]

I think some purists do not view open bow ski boats as "real" ski boats, my personal take is on open water a closed bow is nice protection, I've taken some serious rollers over the open bow in my boat over the years

[Horton]

The press release is here

 

 

http://www.ballofspray.com/images/2016/carbon-pro-thomas-gustafson.png

 

[rodltg2]

I like the open bow as it's easier to launch / trailer boat by myself and not get wet. Still do it with my closed bow , but I'm always nervous I'll slip on the hood or nard myself on the windshield !

[ToddL]

My current tournament PB is behind the Carbon Pro.

[bigskieridaho]

I have yet to drive one, but people say driving it is not for the weak. Obviously more flat and narrow so gets pulled around. I just say man up:) but the wakes are butter!

[Horton]

@bigskieridaho the CP is not a hard boat to drive but it is an adjustment from some other boats. You have to move the wheel a bit more.