OB4 / MOB

[Nautique93]

Hi, new poster here. Sorry if this topic has been beaten to death- I've read everything I can find on it but have a few questions.

 

Difference between the 2016 OB4 and MOB. Is it just colour and shape of plate? Do they now weigh the same/ boot height the same?

 

Using stretchy laces with a soft boot. Is the concern due to partial release from boot before release is triggered causing injury, or just the worry of a boot sinking in case of release from foot and ski? If the latter I'm thinking I could live with that in my shallow lake and rare release from ski if it gives extra insurance.

 

It seems a lot of the reviews/ comments are a year or 2 old. Any recent converts with comments on the 2016 models?

 

 

I've been on rubber front boot and rear toe plate for 25 years with no significant injury, till a few weeks ago when I suffered a rotational fall where I did release from my rubber binding, but broke my ankle on the way out. Now looking at going with one of these systems and a soft boot like the Radar Vapor, and keeping an RTP.

[wtrskior]

The systems are the same but they are made by different people. Mob is the former creator of ob4 and a member here. I believe he recommends if you run a soft boot you use a buckle or solid laces for the top cuff. You want the pin to release the boot not your foot from the boot.

 

 

[mmosley899]

@Nautique93 @wtrskior is correct, I designed both systems and no longer work with ob4. The new MOB system incorporates updated design and performance features. Email me directly and I will answer any questions you have. mike@mobsystemrelease.com

[Nautique93]

Thanks All. Does anyone have a side by side of the 2 products or know the thickness of the 2 systems? On the websites the thickness of the base plate and the bit that attaches to the ski look identical thickness.

OB1 have you seen the 2016 OB4? Sounds like they may have reduced the height as well from the blurb on their website that says it's lightened this year. Also are you suggesting I try my rubber boot on the MOB system? Although I typically only release from the boot once or twice a season which for me is approx 75 sets, I don't think I'd feel comfortable with it since in a hard fall I can come out relatively easily. Even the fall that broke my ankle, my foot popped right out.

 

Mike, I will be in touch. I like the look of the OB4 better, but can't argue form over function if there are benefits of the MOB.

 

 

Thanks

[mmosley899]

@Nautique93 looks don't translate into performance. Unfortunately my ex-partners don't have a clue how to properly evaluate changes to the design of the system and don't know how to build to proper tolerances for the system to perform consistently. I have been using this system for over twenty years and consistently skied into -39off. If you want consistent product support and knowledgable information, MOB is the choice.

[Nautique93]

Thanks for the pictures OB1, and thanks for clearing this up Mike, that's a scary piece of information for OB4 users! Looks like I will be ordering a MOB. I'll update this with how I get on once I'm healed and skiing again!

 

[Omland]

Probably a dumb question but how do you release out of the r-style? does the liner slide out in a bad fall? It's not clearly answered on the product description page on the reflex site.

[PatM]

@Omland You release just like a kicker. The liner slides right out in a fall.

[Gloersen]

I acquired the OB4 release & plate prior to awareness of the split but am using the MOB boot plate with OB4 release.

 

The ability to use different hardshells has been a plus (the fit/comfort/compliance of the GPS being the best imo), but the main reason for the switch was the added safety (conceptually) of the multi-directional release. Been on the system since August (~75 sets) released smoothly maybe 3x with offside tip stuffs, 1x with a buoy impact; all good.

 

About 6 weeks ago, while experimenting with the OB4 plate (alloy/pie slice shaped) when loading from 3 to 4 (LFF) I pre-released and the plate trashed the sidewall of my ski. I since increased the load on the spring to ~68 ft-lbs (it was ~50 ft-lbs{170lbs/6’0”}). The MOB plate (shape/height) seems to perform better so I have stuck with it since.

 

However, today I pre-released again (this time with the MOB boot plate), while max loading about 10’ inside the buoy line out of the onside turn. I was trying a different fin setting and was needing to jump on (pressure) the front to get the tip to engage out of the onside, in any event it was manageable and certainly not a “release force” scenario. Nonetheless, what resulted was a high acceleration, pre-release faceplant OTF/scorpion (@Wish nomenclature); I don’t have too many of those left in my c-spine.

 

I noticed after collecting all the parts on-board that the “friction pad” normally adhered to the bottom of the MOB boot plate was missing; thus done skiing for the day. I describe it as a friction pad because it seems without this frictional coefficient (interface between the boot plate and aluminum (mounted release plate – blue in pic) that forward slide may be too easy allowing the plunger to be compressed with less force. Could be with the MOB aluminum plate (less holes cut out compared to OB4 aluminum pictured) that the frictional component is greater. Either way the pad below the MOB composite boot plate would preferably be more assuredly affixed. Maybe that desired texture can be incorporated into the plate itself.

 

As much as I would like to stay with this system, it’s not giving me the confidence that it’s not going to do this again. So back to my prior hardshell and more conventional release mechanism.

 

Finally, I’m riding a T3 (best ski ever!), each pre-release was at high load inside the line coming out of the turn. If indeed the torque slot does allow the ski to twist more than the conventional ski, whether this causes a loss of integrity between the boot plate and aluminum plate enhancing a pre-release scenario; who knows?

Lots of variables.

 

It’s a system with great promise, but like all high-end slalom equipment; the user needs to be aware of many different aspects of that equipment, assess the risk/benefit ratio, and choose accordingly.

 

...just my opinion.

 

 

 

 

[mmosley899]

@Gloersen sorry you took an unexpected big fall! You are correct though, there is a reason I eliminated the cutouts in the mounting plate. Unfortunately as I indicated before ob4 cannot change design features if they don't understand everything about the function of the system! Also the skier can input unexpected forces in the turn and cause a release, just ask @MattP . If you are having problems with the system, email me or call me, I will always help with diagnosing the situation.

 

As for the boot plate pad, it has to be in place for the release to work properly. Send the boot plate back to me and I will repair or replace the product at no charge. I have a new boot plate pad for 2017 that will not come off! Btw, It is not a friction pad as such, but more of a cushion between the two parts, and keeps the bottom from being slick or damaged when off the ski.

 

I can say that through twenty three years on this system in all versions that I designed, I have never had a pre-release. But I am a very controlled skier and erratic input from the skier can cause an issue with any release system. Like you said, a lot of variables, but we got Matt's issues figured out...

 

 

[Gloersen]

@mmosley899 - will do, thanks.

[OB4]

OB4Systems, Inc. was hoping not to have to disclose inner company issues on this site. However, the ongoing berating from our former partner forces us to clarify the situation.

 

OB4Systems, Inc. is currently in litigation with Mike Mosley for patent infringement and patent fraud attempt and has opened a criminal investigation for theft and embezzlement. After being set down from the board of OB4Systems, Inc. Mike Mosley choose to mob the majority owners of the company he co-founded.

All improvements made to the OB4 system in 2016 have been designed, evaluated and incorporated by our in-house engineering team and tested by skiers all around the world. Production of all binding parts is done in-house with a stringent quality control. For 2017 our boot plate will be produced differently thus eliminating the need for a rubber pad

 

[mmosley899]

OB4 systems was founded using MY updated design of the binding system I have used for over twenty years. The original patent for the system had expired, allowing for similar systems to be produced and marketed. Over the course of two years I developed and marketed the OB4 product based on my 30 years of involvement in competitive water skiing. I did all the work and all the promotion without compensation or even reimbursement for business expenses. When I refused to continue providing my services free of charge to OB4, I was booted out of the company operations by the current majority owners. If anyone was robbed, it was me.

 

I then proceeded to improve the release system and embark on my own to provide a better product to the water skiing community as MOB.

 

I am not aware of any on going legal litigation, nor am I aware of any criminal investigation. If presented with any such situations, I will certainly take the appropriate actions to deal with these false allegations.

 

As I stated before, OB4 does not have near the knowledge or expertise that I have in the design and engineering of the release system that I developed. And any changes they introduce to the system are done so without proper consideration of all the variables.

 

I apologize to all my friends on Ball of Spray for this inappropriate discussion on this forum.

 

Mike

[Deanoski]

I started the binding system 1989. ARC. Boots. Mike was a sponsored skier for us. We had a patent so I don't know what their is to patent I have a proto of the system with a roller blade boot basically the mob that mike has. Partners are tuff. That's what torn ARC. Apart Many trickers still use arc products

[mmosley899]

As noted on my website "Mike's Overall Binding grew out of the original releasable water ski binding developed by A.R.C. in the early 1990's. Mike has continued to use and refine the system over the years. It is the only releasable style system used by both Mike and his Children for years of competition skiing."

 

And the MOB boot plate fits the ARC system!

[jedgell]

I'd trust the guy that puts his name on his company.

[WaterSkier12]

Mike's the best!

Plus he's nice to my kid!

[nzguy]

@mmosley899 I thought i'd post this over here. After reading @OB1 comments about the thinner G10 plate (its the boot plate right?) I'm interested in trying one. Sounds like it will go straight on the OB4 system which I have. how much thinner is it over the original? And do you think a 15off guy would notice a difference?

[nzguy]

@mmosley899 Just read your site again. Says only fits MOB mounting plate. So no go i guess.

[mmosley899]

@nzguy the standard MOB plate fits all three systems, the XLong plate only fits MOB. Have an XShort plate in the works also for smaller feet.

[mmosley899]

@nzguy the G10 plate is .180" tinner but the big difference is that to flexes and rebounds better than the aluminum plate.

[mwetskier]

i do not own either system but i think in the interest of fairness no one should make nay decisions about who is right or wrong in this former partnership dispute until the latest wiki leaks release comes out.