Denali Summit 2016 video

[Wish]

 

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Another Denali Summit Success. Despite the unseasonably cooler weather for Charleston, the Adams managed to take skiers to the next level including myself. Part of me thought since I had been through it once before that I may not pick up much. Nope, I picked up a great deal more. Having them in the boat every set coaching plus the classroom studies along with a fun atmosphere start to finish was key. It didn't hurt having an Oyster festival going on at the same time on site. Actually it was the largest non skiing crowd I've seen standing on the shore watching skiers and asking questions. I think the big take away for most skiers ended up being just how much less physically demanding course skiing is at any rope length, physical make up or boat speed when you've learned the "how to" of GUT. Looking forward to the next one and have a lot to work on between now and then. Thank you Adams.

 

Also had a chance to ride the 2017 ski. Wasn't sure if they could improve much but just like all the other manufactures, they did... and in spades. With no fin or boot adjustments, first set ran several 32s with a clean and early 35. Basically was told I had to go to 38. Had a great 1 ball twice but the cold had sapped any strength I had left as it was my 3rd set. For this Florida boy that is damn good considering water and air temps that I never see and certainly never ski. Want a few more rides before commenting to much but more stable and seamless are the 2 words that pop to the front of my mind. Any ski I test or settings, I am tentative with first rides. That all vanished coming out of ball 2 first pass. Well done Adams.

[Razorskier1]

Nice @wish! Thanks for recording and sharing the video! Makes me wish I was skiing, but alas, I'm stranded in Minnesota.

[Than_Bogan]

I believe Wish and I are the only two-time Denali Summit attendees [it was a smaller event the first year], and I strongly echo his comments as far as the educational value: I learned so much -- again. It's almost like what I grasped last year was enough to make me a little smarter so that I could grasp a lot more this year!

 

If you are a physics-minded athlete, these events alone would be reason enough to ski a Denali. The fact that the 2017 is crazy awesome is just a bonus...

[AdamCord]

Thanks @Wish and @Than_Bogan for coming! Everyone who came survived the record low temps so I consider that to be a plus.

 

By the 3rd day everyone was looking and skiing noticeably better. Hopefully by coaching in our own strange and nerdy way it allows people to keep improving long after they've left the Summit!

 

In case anyone is wondering, we did 3 days of coaching with Denali skiers. Each morning we spent about 2 hours in a classroom going over GUT physics and geometry. Then everyone got to ski 2-3 sets each day, working on what they had learned in the morning.

[Glock]

Is the Denali summit open to any Denali owner? I don't own one yet, but may consider as a tool to really learn ski theory and technique.

[AdamCord]

@Glock

 

Anyone sporting one of these bad boys:

 

[Adam Caldwell]

Yes. Invitations go out to all customers new and old on a first come first serve basis.

 

For the next summit event we are considering accepting enrollments for those who would like to participate and be part of the discussion/activities but not necessarily ski 2-3 sets a day.

[CsSkis]

@adamcaldwell and @adamcord, thanks for letting me be someone that was able to participate and yet not ski 2 - 3 sets a day. For me, the presentations and visualizations that were included as part of the classroom work were even more powerful a learning tool than being coached out on the water. Great job!

[Wish]

And there's where @Than_Bogan and I part ways...I am NOT physics minded and berrely an athlete. But still easily understood what they were saying and then some. For me, it has been the fountain of youth. No more big hits out of the ball, way less loads and most lines feel the same physically other then reaction time changing as the line gets shorter. It is an amazing concept and explains a lot as to why some pros are just better then others and not nessisarally stronger. Once you dig into what the Adams teach, you will never look at a pro or any other skier the same way. Many many ah ha moments.

 

Oh, and what is also a bit mind bending to me is this was all filmed, edited and the final copy rendered by my phone. These phones are amazing and the camera quality is to the level of real photo gear I have that's not even 5 yrs old.

[Steven_Haines]

I can't view the video d-/

[Wish]

@"Steven Haines" not sure why. It works on my phone rather well. Maybe try a different device from the one you are using.

[Steven_Haines]

Thanks @Wish! Still no luck.

[Razorskier1]

Sounds like Summit 2.0 was a great success! Between knee surgery, my work schedule, and other issues I suspect I won't be skiing again until the ice goes out in MN. Sad face.

[AdamCord]

Jim here's a synopsis of what you missed this year:

 

Day 1: 2 hours in the lakefront conference room covering the concepts of COM, how to move on the ski, and efficiency. We started by going over the "Moving with Efficiency" GUT article, and then built from there discussing how to use your knees and ankles to balance on the ski, how to move along the fall line, loading the rope and not the ski, and treating the pull as a controlled fall to build acceleration. After that everyone got to ski 2-3 sets while we rode in the boat and coached these concepts

 

Day 2: 2 hours in the same conference room covering course geometry and how to ski with the boat, using its power to our advantage. This was spent mostly working on gate timing, because when you can do this right on the gate, it happens quite naturally throughout the rest of the course. Again everyone got to ski 2-3 sets. It became clear to everyone (I hope) that when you're gate timing is right, you can stop worrying so much about your turns. Once you are swinging in unison with the boat, the wide/early skier path happens on its own, and turns are an afterthought.

 

Day 3: 2 hours again. We spent some time discussing how boot setups can effect your ability to move efficiently on the ski, and what to do to modify or correct it. Then we went through and answered everyone's questions about what we had been working on the previous 2 days. Again everyone skied, and EVERYONE looked noticeably better than they did on day 1! It was really cool to see the progression.

 

I think my favorite thing about all this is that once someone learns the GUT ideas, they don't need to rely on a coach. We're not telling people to put their left arm here, point their knees there, etc. We're (trying) to teach the basic physics of skiing, and once you know that, you know where to put your arm or to point your knees. In fact it was great to see when someone did something wrong while skiing, because they knew exactly what they did wrong right away, and they knew how to correct it for the next pass!

 

Thanks again to everyone who came out. We are looking at ramping up and doing more of these events next year if there is enough interest.

[Razorskier1]

@AdamCord -- I've been working on a number of those concepts since the last Summit. No question that doing the gate right (from the time the boat pulls me up until I turn in) is critical to the rest of the course -- as you said, if you do that right, the buoys are just in the right place and you don't even think about the turns because it all becomes natural. By the end of this season I was there, and it oddly made every pass from 28 off through 38 off feel the same. No change in technique, no change in intensity. Just go out there and start right and then let it all happen all the way down the course. Really appreciate that you guys share this information so willingly!

[Wish]

35 off 2017 Denali... It's a goooood ride.

 

[gregy]

@wish even with a few little bobbles that looked easy.

[AdamCord]

@Wish nice skiing! Not bad for your only crack at 35 on the new ski. I believe you jumped right onto that ski after several of us 36mph guys rode it and made no fin changes, right?

[Wish]

Correct and if you really want to know the truth, I was frign cold, tired, could not see 2 and 4 ball in that direction (glare) and had already run some 32s and had a looong set earlier that day. That pass was way more the ski then me. I had nothing left to give to a pass. When you all said cut to 38...I was like..hmmmmm..waist of gas? Did not expect to even round 1 ball let alone backside it. But when your legs basically given up there is no ball 2. Guessing festival foods like beer, corn dogs and funnel cake probably played a part. I have no will power. I think we all agreed after the first couple passes that the only adjustment would be wing from 9 to 8 and nothing else. To me that says a lot. You all killed it at 36 (see shortliners in video) and it worked extremely well for me at 34 considering. This after you all had to guess where exactly to put my like no other one off boot system. I know, engineers never guess. Again...well done Adams.

 

[jimbrake]

@AdamCord - "how to move along the fall line". I was going to tongue-in-cheek poke fun at you for this because you'll lose your non-snow skiers with that kind of crazy talk. But then since I'm a snow ski fanatic.....tell me more! Please.

[AdamCord]

@jimbrake we use that term a little differently than how it's used in snow skiing. We define the fall line as a line between the balls of your feet perpendicular to the ski (pointing to the left and right, not up). Then we make sure all our movement on the ski are along that line. In essence it's ignoring the boat, and basing where you move your COM/body off of the ski alone.

 

Here's me (attempting) to do this on the gate shot. First set in 6 weeks so it's not perfect but you get the idea:

 

 

 

 

[Adam Caldwell]

@Jimbrake. Would you lean 'uphill' on a snow ski? Leaning against the boat is really the same as leaning uphill on snow rather then moving/leaning relative to the skis. Its very counter productive and just forces you to skid your way down the lake just as it would on a hill covered in snow.

[Wish]

For me, behind fall line looks like a struggle against the boat with high loads while ahead of fall line looks like I'm using the boat and handle swing to propel myself forward faster with little loads. Certainly makes things a lot easier on me physically...a lot.

 

 

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It may look subtle but the difference in feel is significant for me.

 

[Wish]

@jimbrake in down hill racing, snow skiers want skis to track around the gates and not skid (skidding = slowing). If you look at the spray coming off my ski, which pic looks like skidding and which looks like tracking based on the spray?

[Than_Bogan]

@Wish It's funny: That doesn't seem subtle to me at all, but I bet it would have a couple of years ago. As I am beginning to grasp The Way of the GUT, the two photos above look like night and day difference. (And btw, nice job!)

 

What's most interesting to me is that it's easier to get there than you might think AND it has almost nothing to do with moving forward*. I'm not going to be able to explain in one sentence what we worked on for hours at the summit, but the short short version is that if you always move in that plane described above, you end up in the right place.

 

*Well, I guess there is a pretty dramatic move forward that happens even before the first still of Cord above.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@wish I dont see much difference in the spray, but the change in body position, ski angle and ski attitude is huge. I bet it feels like like you are on the hairy edge of going OTF?

 

The thing that stands out in Cord's last pic is how flat the attitude of the ski is. Lots of angle and very efficient use of the ski. He has 100% of his weight on the front foot. It probably doesn't hurt that the front binding is mounted 40" from the tail either B)

[Than_Bogan]

Actually, no. Or at least to whatever extent I've ever manage to do it, it doesn't feel unsafe in any way. In fact, the whole thing feels slower and more stable, without the slightest "oh shit" trigger. Because of deeply ingrained (and wrong) instincts, it's a little scary to watch someone do it, but not at all scary to do it.

 

If you try to emulate this technique by simply pushing yourself forward, I predict crazy OTFs will result, because that's not actually what's going on. The forward look is an illusion of perspective; the actual skier is dead centered over the ski. (Hold a T square out in front of you to see where the illusion comes from.) If you do the whole fall line thing, you'll end up looking like Wish (or Cord or Nate), and with a totally relaxed mind.

[Wish]

Like Cord, like Nate..haha well that's generous but thanks @Than_Bogan. So Than is correct in the way I feel. I do not feel like an OTF is even possible. Quite the opposite when I'm all loady, working against the boat and behind the fall line. Getting pitched forward or trying to get forward at that point is what cause the OTF for me. He is also correct in trying to emulate and not really understand. That could be a train wreck. And to be perfectly honest I'm not sure how much of what the Adams have to say as far as the "how to" would have been understood without them sharing the knowledge in person with some skiing directly following. It's a lot to digest and in person significantly lessons misinterpretations. Their current model of the Danali Summit just makes all the puzzle pieces fit together. For me, when all the pieses did come together (conceptually, still working through implementation) it fundamentally altered my skiing both intellectually and physically. Sort of that 2 steps back for one HUGE step forward kind of thing. So while my scored may not reflect an increase (2 steps back period) my skiing has changed significantly (pics above) opening the door for that to happen (the big step forward). Plus it just makes it a lot frign easier to physically ski to up to my average and at my age that matters greatly.

[disland]

Thats not subtle

[jimbrake]

@AdamCord - thanks for your explanation of how you guys are using the term "fall line". I get it.

@adamhcaldwell and @Wish - Yes, understood. @Wish the difference between your two pictures is not subtle at all. The first is driving with the brakes on, the second is all gas pedal. Nice.

 

I'm pretty much the last guy on this board you need to explain what fall line in ski racing means or carving vs. skidding. Also, just for the record, I'm fully on board with the tenets of GUT. I've been working on the same things since long before I ever heard of GUT. I'm not sehr gut (see what I did there?) at it, but I understand it and am working on it.

[Wish]

@Bruce_Butterfield yes to all the other differences. Was trying to draw a different parallel to snow skiing that actually has a visual. A ski tracking rather then skidding, snow or water shows up in snow and water spray that I've noticed. On snow, the spray is what is often pointed out by the announcers in a downhill race when things are going bad and they usually state how speed is lost when that happens. In the last pic of Cord (he is like a machine) his ski is tracking more and skidding less. Forward speed with weight ahead of fall line. Here's another pic where you can see all the differences you describe as well as the spray being different. Now for me much of the difference in spray or skidding is noticed at 32 off. I'm either doing things right or wrong. I can run it either way. But one is waaaay easier then the other. At 38, things get closer to the way I used to ski and the differences are very subtle....working in that. Now, in reality I could be off base but the spray is something that has caught my eye in watching differences in pros and finding old stills vs new stills of myself.

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[2tracmind]

This is great information,,, I am thinking of this as the "New Stack". For the last 4-5 years i have been stubbornly focused on my stacked position with good progress in my body position but not equivalent progress in slalom scores.

A big "light bulb " moment occurred early this spring when snow skiing. I was skiing our favorite run on the mountain, scary steep " double black diamond", one where if you fall your sliding to the bottom of the run. My feeling when i am snow skiing steep terrain is that my head and shoulders are leading me down the hill, as if i am pitching myself down the mountain,, otherwise your in the back seat and on the tails. Two days later I read GUT skiing with efficiency and " Wholly S---" I realized I had developed a solid stack BUT it was a "STACK vs BOAT" and not a "STACK vs SKI". The Fall Line comparison speaks to me,, Thank you ADAMS.

[Razorskier1]

@Wish -- not subtle at all to me. Cord is "ahead of his ski", you are hiding behind it. This is an on side turn thing I talked with him about last fall. I think our bad habit on the onside is to fall back and away from the line, when what we need to be doing is trying to move forward. Back and away is load without speed. Forward is speed without load. BTW - I can see the difference in the relaxed look on Cord's face and the grimace on yours :-)

[Razorskier1]

@Than_Bogan -- correct! OTF happens because you were too far back, not too far forward. When you fall back and away, you create an unsustainable load. Best case, the boat wins by pulling you up early and you go hot and narrow to one ball. Worst case, the boat wins by pulling you from the back of the ski to the front, and you can't stop the momentum -- therefore, OTF!

[Wish]

And if things go well with less skidding and more tracking forward, you get to look like Cord in that last pic and oh ya, you get to do the "Nate pose" as well cause you have a mile before the ball. Course Nate's more ahead of fall line. I'm buying what the Adams are preaching.

 

[Razorskier1]

@Wish -- Nate has the advantage of being young without arthritic knees -- or in my case, arthritic knees that have been operated on 4 times!

[Wish]

Double boots in that pic are not helping me. I've since heavally modified them for more of me ahead of fall line. That's the beauty, I to have a shitty knee, and back, and shoulder and the list goes on. That's why this all has helped. Less strain on those things but ya, that's why my pic is 35 off and his is literally 41.

[AdamCord]

@Than_Bogan @Razorskier1 @Bruce_Butterfield I have seen some people come close to going OTF trying this when they leave their ass behind. They try to get forward with their head and forget to bring their hips in line. That's why we coach people to lead with their sternum and also to drive their sternum high. This stacks the hips between the sternum and feet. @Wish still needs some work on this... ;)

 

Also for the Lefties... here's the same sequence of @adamhcaldwell on his gate shot. He's got this mastered:

 

 

[Razorskier1]

Caldwell's pictures are almost more pronounced, perhaps because he's really good at it, or perhaps because it's an offside turn, or heck, maybe I just don't know! Nevertheless, the third and fourth pictures show me a lot! He looks like he is ahead of the ski. This correctly (IMO) contradicts the old "put the ski between you and the boat" advice that has been out there for years.

[AdamCord]

@Razorskier1 it looks that way because he's so good at it. What's really telling is you can see in the first 3 pics that he's not really moving all that fast. Then by the 5th pic he's going Mach 9. You do this right and it's like being shot out of a cannon.

[Wish]

The sternum thing this past weekend was very helpful. After trying it a few times I mentioned to Cord that it felt like I was over exaggerating it and that it must look weird. He said nope and told me I could do that even more. Work in progress. And don't let Cord fool you. He has this just as mastered. Like a said..a machine.