Random new Prostar questions

[swc5150]

I just have a few questions regarding our new Prostar that I was hoping some current owners may be able to help with:

 

1. Is the powertrain warranty really voided if a dealer doesn't perform the 25 hour service?

2. What did you pay for the 25 hour service? Seems like replacing the serpentine belt that early is a touch overkill?

3. Is the heater really electric, versus the Heatercraft style running off the engine cooling system? My boat is being stored at the dealership, otherwise I'd pop the hood and look for myself.

4. Are fold down platform brackets standard? Mine has them, but just curious if I paid extra, as they're not listed on the build sheet?

5. Is it hard to add seat heaters?

6. Mine is has a 4 blade prop. Since a 3 blade is standard, what package was the 4 blade a part of? Seems like a dumb question, but my dealer doesn't have an answer for me. I'm assuming I'll prefer the 4 blade? 5.7 engine, if that matters.

 

[RichardDoane]

I always did my own service, never had any warranty issues, and of course didn't charge myself. If you self-perform, just keep good records. My boats had heated seats, and I never added the heater, but the Radar boats have always had a heatercraft heater. Also, I stopped adding hot water showers, and just added a whip hose off of one of the manifolds to fill the cooler. Just be careful because it can get pretty hot. Just run the engine, no pump/valve/wiring required. Fold down swwimstep brackets are standard. Seat heaters can be added fairly easily, and not sure if the factory pre-wires the harness, would need to inspect but either way not a big deal to add. Mine always had 4 blades, but there is an option in the ZO to adjust between 3 & 4 blade props, depends on how much hole shot you need, a 3 blade may be just fine

[swc5150]

Thanks, I've always done my own service as well, so the warranty thing got me spooked. I prefer to run Royal Purple in boats, and my MC dealer isn't thrilled with me supplying the oil for the service.

 

I assumed it would have a HeaterCraft as well, but read in the owner's manual that the heater is electric? Weird.

 

My dealer just told me their rep is a baller, which is why they popped the 4 blade on it. It has a 3 blade coming with it too, so I suppose that'll be my spare.

[RichardDoane]

Scholl loves that Royal Purple stuff for the Broho boats and has never had a problem. Just use a name brand oil filter and you're fine. Breaking in oil is usually conventional to help with piston ring seating, then change to synthetic after 100 hours. Follow the engine manual recommendations and your warranty is fine. Electric heater actually sounds like less hassle than old school heater core, no freezing/winterizing required.

[swc5150]

Interesting about switching to RP after 100 hours? I've historically switched after the 10 and 25 hour oil changes. Should I not do that this time? I want to baby this boat, since it'll have to last a while.

[RichardDoane]

good question for @Jody_Seal

[ForrestGump]

That's been an age old question in cars as well other piston engines. I know in drag racing(1500-2000hp turbocharged engines), we'd fire the engine up on regular oil, perform our break in procedure, then drain it and fill with synthetic. Leak downs on the cylinder were performed before every race or track session and logged. What I can tell you is that if you compare the leakdown of those engines which got synthetic on day 1 against those which received dino oil only, the leakdown %'s were similar across the life of the engine. We found the breakin procedure effected leakdown more than oil choice.

[swc5150]

I just ran over to our local MC dealer and spoke with the head mechanic. He said don't change the oil until 25 hours. Then switch to the Pennzoil synth recommended. He said if warranty work is required, they'll try to deny the claim if RP is used. He did say that doing the 25 hour oil/tranny change will not void the warranty.

[BRY]

The Pro who lives on our lake, an MC guy, has said the 3-blade is better for jump and 4-blade better for slalom. Either will work fine either way but for best ride that's his thoughts.

 

Quite sure there would be Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act issues if MC denied a warranty claim based on 3rd party products alone or who did the service. If can be shown you did all the required work by the required time with conforming products you are all good. Example if oil used conforms to the specifications listed by MC then can't deny warranty for using it.

[Broussard]

In tournament skiing the four blade is typically used for slalom and the three blade is used as a jump prop. Folding platform brackets are standard.

[jjackkrash]

What specs does RP lack that would result in a void warranty?

[MAD11]

@bonehead I always went straight to the synthetic for break in on certain race cars. That way the nitro methane dumped in the oil would blow by the rings a better for that little extra boost. :smile: Not sure that was too legal, but clearly was a fun interpretation of the rules.

[Roger]

1. Is the powertrain warranty really voided if a dealer doesn't perform the 25 hour service?

No.

 

2. What did you pay for the 25 hour service? Seems like replacing the serpentine belt that early is a touch overkill?

My boat had 26 hours when I bought it (was used at Regionals) and they did the service before I picked it up.

 

3. Is the heater really electric, versus the Heatercraft style running off the engine cooling system? My boat is being stored at the dealership, otherwise I'd pop the hood and look for myself.

No, it runs off the engine like every other boat I had, though it does not put out nearly enough heat.

 

4. Are fold down platform brackets standard? Mine has them, but just curious if I paid extra, as they're not listed on the build sheet?

Not sure, but I think so.

 

5. Is it hard to add seat heaters?

Yes, I was told it can be done, but expensive.

 

6. Mine is has a 4 blade prop. Since a 3 blade is standard, what package was the 4 blade a part of? Seems like a dumb question, but my dealer doesn't have an answer for me. I'm assuming I'll prefer the 4 blade? 5.7 engine, if that matters.

Every 2014 through 2016 I've seen here in South Florida came with a 4 blade.

 

[DW]

@swc5150 : Did the mechanic give a reason (other than simply a reason to save a warranty pay claim) on why RP would potentially void the warranty assuming it meets and has the same certification level as the Pennzoil? There also may be some good warranty guidelines on the marinizer (Ilmor) website & you could also review the GM powertrain website for more engine information.

[Roger]

@DW - I have no personal experience, but when I owned Mustangs (cars), on the various forums for them, there are many people who will not use RP. I'm sure there are plenty who swear by it as well, but I've never seen people say they will not use any other synthetic oil on those forums.

[swc5150]

I got the RP idea a few years back when Jody Seal spoke of using it in his SN's, giving the boat a little more punch. Using it in my PCM's from that point, they did seem to gain a slight increase in performance (whether real or in my head), so I figured why not use it in the new Ilmor. I guess I don't really care if I need to use Pennzoil, but it is odd that the mechanic said no to RP. FWIW, he also said to use the Ilmor oil filter, as it has an oil catch in it, due to it being mounted upside down. I'm fine with that too, whether true or not.

 

Almost hate to open this subject, but what are your views on the break-in? I've always followed the manual, but others, whom I respect their opinion, have said a slow idle to wide open, then back down to idle is all the engine actually requires. I'll still go by the book, since the water will be 40 degrees when I drop it in, so I'll have time before wanting to ski. Just curious what you guys do?

[DW]

@swc5150 : everybody will have their own idea on break in procedures, there is a procedure on the GM Powertrain website. You would be surprised to watch the engine run process at the GM engine plant, or in other words, the rings do go through a seating process prior to the engine leaving the plant.

[skiinxs]

@swc5150 For break-in I always follow the PCM recommendations, which do include occasional and early runs up to wide open throttle. On a 2,000' lake with a new Direct Injected 6.2, those full throttle bursts are very, very short:). Lots of different low speeds while breaking in are good, not just running at the same speed all the time, and minimize idling as much as possible. As far as Royal Purple synthetic, it meets the highest certification standards and covers the standard that PCM specifies. Since all of the 15w40 oils are really aimed at diesels, you have to make sure they cover the gas engine spec not just diesel specs, which RP does. As far as Pennzoil, I have never been a fan of their conventional oil. That yellow waxy based oil never appealed to me, but I have no experience with their synthetic oil, other than I have never seen it in the PCM required 15w40 weight. I do think it is odd that PCM specifies a different weight than GM does for the same engines in their cars and trucks, but it is PCM that is backing with a five year warranty and those are the guidelines that I abide by.

[skiinxs]

@DW I spent a number of years in a past life at a couple GM assembly plants. I shuddered every time I walked past the area where they were started the first time, as they went to immediate wide open throttle (in neutral). Then shortly thereafter they were at wide open throttle on a chassis dyno in brake test. Seemed like abuse to me.

[MISkier]

@DW and @swc5150, you would also be surprised to see what happens in a "roll test" at the end of the assembly line. When I supported plant automation for GM in the early 90s, the roll test had the car on a dyno type of roller and had a screen give the driver instructions on what to do - accelerate to 70 mph, shift to first gear, redline, etc. I don't know what they do today, but it seemed rigorous then.

[DW]

@MISkier : yup, had a vehicle on the chassis rolls break one of the restraining chain mounts, that was entertaining... and one time has a race vehicle blow a tire in the thermal tunnel causing a 'minor' fire prepping for an off road race in a hot climate.

[LoopSki]

Im hoping to get a new prostar in March. I was just going to launch , map the course and ski. Should I not do that ?

[swc5150]

@LoopSki That brings me to one more point the MC mechanic made. Not breaking it in by the book could also void the warranty. I suppose they could look at the diacom and see how many hours at slalom rpms you ran, if you needed warranty work early in its life? IE, if your at 20 hours, and 15 of them are in the 3,400+ range, maybe they'd raise a stink? Good question to raise.

[Beastmode]

I have a boat repair business and used to work for Waterski America in Dallas. We used to put take the brand new boats to a lake site and run them for 1hr Staggering speeds 1 min 30 mph 2 to 3mins 20's for the first 30 mins then building up to 4k rpm same cycling. Served two purposes-- 1- break in and 2 - find any issues from factory build.

 

 

[RLogan]

Just a note regarding Royal Purple. 11 years ago I "cooked" my 2001 Nautique GT40 motor using Royal Purple. Apparently, the oil did not hold particulates in suspension. Over a period of 2 years with 50hr oil changes, the sludge in the pan built up to the point of clogging the oil pump pickup. The result was burned crank and rod bearings. I own a 2016 ProStar. MasterCraft has approved Rotella 10W-40 as a replacement for Dexron III in the transmission. It seems smoother and quieter.

[swc5150]

Just read the Ilmor manual again. 25 hours at random RPM's before one can run it more than 3 minutes straight at a single RPM? All my other boats had 10 hours as the magic number. We primarily open water ski on our river, so I'm running longer than 3 minutes. Maybe ZO churning will count for some varying RPM's? I miss the old Indmar manuals that flat spelled out rpm ranges by the hour through 10 hours. This Ilmor manual is really vague.

[jjackkrash]

How are you liking the new boat? Been out yet?

[swc5150]

Not yet. Still a foot of ice on the river

[epnault]

The whole break in thing is a bunch of BS. I am an engineer at a Powersports company. Drive it like you would normally do-like skiing. The only thing you shouldn't do is take your boat and run miles at WOT or hold a single position for too long in the first 10hrs. They need to spell it out for the lowest common denominator. Don't worry about it.

 

I would defiantly use the oil they perscribe and the filter. Don't mess with this. Their recommendation is from their experience in validation.

 

BTW. The serviceability on this new Ilmor package is just awesome.

[swc5150]

Thanks, that's pretty much what I assumed. Agreed in the serviceability aspect. The oil filter alone is placed in a great spot. I recall having to practically break my arm to get the filter off the LT1's.

 

@jjackkrash Have you had the new 200 out yet?

[jjackkrash]

@swc5150, no, its still on the dealer's lot. The warranty starts when I drive it off and I wanted to get some stereo work on it before I formally take delivery. I am adding the JL subwoofer and amp and JL bow speakers and probably an extra battery, battery separator, and 20 amp charger. They were going to get to this when things calm down from the boat show.

[robscholl-OF]

Why does Illmore spec Pennzoil? Hmmm...Penske owns a stake of MC as well as owning Illmore Marine and guess who is a huge sponsored of Penske in the NASCAR world.....?Pennzoil (Joey Lagano #22) So knowing the very successful businessman Rodger Penske is, of course you would spec Pennzoil in all your engines your company has a stake in. (I have nothing agains Pennzoil, I just don't buy into you HAVE to use their oil or else.)

 

I run RP in the BroHo boats and never had an oil related issue.

 

As far as break-in, I have watched many a promo boat come to the lake with little or no hours on it. They get broken in skiing and never seen an issue. The only one I have heard of is taking a brand new engine and then just running at a steady high rpm for extended time. Tournament style skiing you never go more than 20 seconds or so, so no issue. OF

[epnault]

The oil discussion is a long one. Speaking from experience in a similar industry, OE spec a certain oil because they are trying to limit all the variables in validation. It is not feasible (time and cost) to test all oils in the market. It is less about profitability in oil sales.

[epnault]

The oil discussion is a long one. Speaking from experience in a similar industry, OE spec a certain oil because they are trying to limit all the variables in validation. It is not feasible (time and cost) to test all oils in the market. It is less about profitability in oil sales.

[swc5150]

Bow lid question...

 

My boat didn't come from the factory with the lid, but they're adding it for me before I take delivery. Does the gasket/weather stripping really need to be installed around the bow? Does it just keep water out, or does also serve as something for the lid to rest on? I noticed the proto boat that Marcus had didn't have the gasket, but still had the lid. Just curious, but the bow area looks cleaner without the gasket.

[DW]

@swc5150 : Only my personal opinion on your question, but one coming from industry experience (automotive/marine). The gasket most likely serves three functions, a water seal, soft material to keep 2 fiberglass parts from rubbing/scratching against each other and noise suppression. As for Marcus's boat, not surprising his may have some missing parts as he was part of the development team and in many industries you get a less than totally finished unit (and you are not that concerned about it since you are part of the internal team), his was waiting on parts to come in to get installed or the seal was a post intro development item.

 

Interesting that the owners manuals differ for break in period, the base engine is the same if using the same engine supplier (GM or Ford) so the critical break in components such as rings, cylinder walls, bearings, valve guides are the same. Seems to show a conservative approach by Ilmor entering the market.

[swc5150]

Finally got it home!

[swc5150]

Beer time!

[swc5150]

Daughter loves the bow lid:)

[jjackkrash]

Awesome!

 

When are you taking her for a spin?

 

(I might head out this weekend for the maiden voyage if the rain stops.)

[swc5150]

It's snowing right now, so it'll be a week or so. You have to be dying to get the 200 out? Haven't you had it home for a few weeks now?

[jjackkrash]

Yes, its been here for almost two weeks, but it hasn't stopped raining, at least not while I have been home. Sunday is supposed to be dry. Fingers crossed.

[epnault]

Scott-proves that even at early age females prefer an open bow. :)

 

Guys I went for my first swim yesterday. Well it was a dive in and get the heck out. We have about 20 ft thawed ok our shore.

[jjackkrash]

@swc5150: I dropped the 200 in for its maiden voyage (did not ski or pull skiers). I am very, very happy with it. It handles great and doesn't rattle your teeth, even in pretty stiff chop. No complaints other than it backs up the wrong way, the bow storage is almost non-existent, and the stock stereo could use a big sub and another 1500 watts.

 

I will say, the 5.3l H5DI engine is very impressive. It is super responsive and very quiet. I am having a hard time picturing that boat with an extra 100HP and 50 lbs. more torque in the 6.2l. I doubt even big jumpers would need more than the 5.3l. The 5.3 is a very, very nice fit for that boat.

[swc5150]

Lol, our Prostar will reverse in wring direction too!

[epnault]

Scott-you are a MasterCraft guy now. It is the "correct" direction. I do like it because if I am in the boat alone I park at docks so easy because everything happens on the driver side on the MC.