Do we really want the sport of water-skiing to grow?

[escmanaze]

That's right folks, get your pitch forks ready, it's time to lynch me for even throwing the blasphemous idea out there.

 

There has been a lot of talk on here recently about what AWSA needs to do to increase membership and what we all need to do to grow the sport etc. etc. In the middle of all this, everybody just takes the statement as assumed and automatically true that the goal for all of us is to build a world where a larger percentage of its population get pulled behind a boat around a lake on a board.

 

I'm just going to throw the idea out there for everybody to think about, not because I necessarily espouse the idea, but I just want to make sure everybody has thought through it: Is growth the goal? Why? What big positives come from us doubling the number of skiers in the US or world in the next 10 years? What negatives might come from this population doubling?

 

I think there are good arguments for growth. But I think there are probably good arguments against growth as well. I would love to hear your thoughts.

[ozski]

More skiers = better skiers = larger market = more R&D = better ski's & better boats = higher scores and so it goes. Skiers benefit. Take the equation the other way and we might still be skiing on woodies behind outboards.

[ozski]

More skiers = better skiers = larger market = more R&D = better ski's & better boats = higher scores and so it goes. Skiers benefit. Take the equation the other way and we might still be skiing on woodies behind outboards.

[Rpc29]

My hope is always that more skiers = more places that get turned into ski sites.

 

 

[Rpc29]

My hope is always that more skiers = more places that get turned into ski sites.

 

 

[oldjeep]

More skiers = less surfers. Although I'm not sure what awsa membership has to do with the number of skiers. I know a lot of skiers, don't know more than a couple awsa members.

[oldjeep]

More skiers = less surfers. Although I'm not sure what awsa membership has to do with the number of skiers. I know a lot of skiers, don't know more than a couple awsa members.

[aupatking]

I just need a waterskiing girlfriend. Don't care about the sport. More women, more likely I can get a woman who understands/supports my addiction.

On a serious note, it would be nice to have ski shops again and an industry big enough to support a few more skiing related jobs. We get smaller, the big boat manufacturers see less reason to compete. Eventually, at our rate of decline, their goodwill toward the sport just doesn't make business sense. It's hard to say that it does now.

That said, I sure like my private lake having only 6 skiers. I've never waited any longer than what it took to tow my partners. If I want to throw down an 8 to 10 pass set doesn't hurt anybody's feelings when there's only 3 of us out there that day.

[aupatking]

I just need a waterskiing girlfriend. Don't care about the sport. More women, more likely I can get a woman who understands/supports my addiction.

On a serious note, it would be nice to have ski shops again and an industry big enough to support a few more skiing related jobs. We get smaller, the big boat manufacturers see less reason to compete. Eventually, at our rate of decline, their goodwill toward the sport just doesn't make business sense. It's hard to say that it does now.

That said, I sure like my private lake having only 6 skiers. I've never waited any longer than what it took to tow my partners. If I want to throw down an 8 to 10 pass set doesn't hurt anybody's feelings when there's only 3 of us out there that day.

[sunvalleylaw]

I would love to see more recreational skiing, as it is a fun family sport, IMO. And it disturbs everyone else on the lake less than a big surf wake or even big wakeboard wake. And the rhythms in the bay are better when more people are skiing. And also, because more skiers, recreational and otherwise, would support the competitive scene better. We need more, and younger, people entering the scene to support and challenge Nate, Regina, and the other great skiers already there. Also, more skiers mean more R&D, etc. as others have said. So yes, I support growth in waterskiing.

[sunvalleylaw]

I would love to see more recreational skiing, as it is a fun family sport, IMO. And it disturbs everyone else on the lake less than a big surf wake or even big wakeboard wake. And the rhythms in the bay are better when more people are skiing. And also, because more skiers, recreational and otherwise, would support the competitive scene better. We need more, and younger, people entering the scene to support and challenge Nate, Regina, and the other great skiers already there. Also, more skiers mean more R&D, etc. as others have said. So yes, I support growth in waterskiing.

[ozski]

Lots of golfers = lots of Golf Courses and they have enough clout to get courses built all over. You get the right people skiing or I should say get the right people's kids skiing and more lakes would be getting built. The 2 need to happen roughly at the same pace, more people on fewer lakes is certainly not the way to grow the sport.

[ozski]

Lots of golfers = lots of Golf Courses and they have enough clout to get courses built all over. You get the right people skiing or I should say get the right people's kids skiing and more lakes would be getting built. The 2 need to happen roughly at the same pace, more people on fewer lakes is certainly not the way to grow the sport.

[ScottScott]

I agree that less people competing for time on the courses is a good thing. But an increase sales on boats and other equipment would be a big plus to prices.

 

Would be nice to see skiing back on ESPN, or other television. How about a water ski channel (I remember when the Golf channel started up and everyone was laughing....)

 

Biggest plus..... How about the top skiers making some decent money. The top skiers in our sport are every bit the athlete that Lebron James is. Certainly Jordan Spieth. They train as hard, and work at their skills just as hard, but because the popularity of the sport isn't there, they don't get paid near as much for it.

[ScottScott]

I agree that less people competing for time on the courses is a good thing. But an increase sales on boats and other equipment would be a big plus to prices.

 

Would be nice to see skiing back on ESPN, or other television. How about a water ski channel (I remember when the Golf channel started up and everyone was laughing....)

 

Biggest plus..... How about the top skiers making some decent money. The top skiers in our sport are every bit the athlete that Lebron James is. Certainly Jordan Spieth. They train as hard, and work at their skills just as hard, but because the popularity of the sport isn't there, they don't get paid near as much for it.

[bigskieridaho]

I honestly get sad that every boat show I go to. Tired of seeing wakeboard boat after wakeboard boat. Nautique is the only company that has ski boats there EVER. Where is the new Malibu, Prostar or maybe see the new CP when it comes out. I want to be able to watch waterskiing on TV again, or have anyone understand why we spend money to have a lake membership and have that passion. I feel people don't ski because it is hard, takes mental focus, and frankly isn't cool by their friends who do any board sports. Skiing is awesome, and maybe one day people will understand.... I ski, but I do wakeskate and surf on occasion, but nothing gives me the satisfaction of being on my ski! I could keep going;) All are created equal behind a boat....

[bigskieridaho]

I honestly get sad that every boat show I go to. Tired of seeing wakeboard boat after wakeboard boat. Nautique is the only company that has ski boats there EVER. Where is the new Malibu, Prostar or maybe see the new CP when it comes out. I want to be able to watch waterskiing on TV again, or have anyone understand why we spend money to have a lake membership and have that passion. I feel people don't ski because it is hard, takes mental focus, and frankly isn't cool by their friends who do any board sports. Skiing is awesome, and maybe one day people will understand.... I ski, but I do wakeskate and surf on occasion, but nothing gives me the satisfaction of being on my ski! I could keep going;) All are created equal behind a boat....

[Wish]

@ozski more golf courses are closing across the US then are opening. More lakes? Will be a loooong time before that happens. Countless empty lots on man made ski lakes all over the US not to mention the several I can think of with 0 homes or the ones that have just been abandon all together. It was said on another thread...to many active entertainment choices these days vs yrs ago and then add in media devices with youth. It's a bad mix and a bleak outcome. But do believe there are ways to grow within the already skiing public.

[Wish]

@ozski more golf courses are closing across the US then are opening. More lakes? Will be a loooong time before that happens. Countless empty lots on man made ski lakes all over the US not to mention the several I can think of with 0 homes or the ones that have just been abandon all together. It was said on another thread...to many active entertainment choices these days vs yrs ago and then add in media devices with youth. It's a bad mix and a bleak outcome. But do believe there are ways to grow within the already skiing public.

[ozski]

@Wish yeah I was just using Golf as an example and so pick another mainstream sport. With volume comes commercial opportunity and we all know what happens when the money starts to flow. There would be some upside and some downside. The thing about skiing that I like is that its pretty much wanker free, most of the (tournament) skiers you meet are decent people, friendly and ready help out other skiers. Significant growth might change that and that would be a shame.

[ozski]

@Wish yeah I was just using Golf as an example and so pick another mainstream sport. With volume comes commercial opportunity and we all know what happens when the money starts to flow. There would be some upside and some downside. The thing about skiing that I like is that its pretty much wanker free, most of the (tournament) skiers you meet are decent people, friendly and ready help out other skiers. Significant growth might change that and that would be a shame.

[ScottScott]

I used the Golf Channel as an example, but you are correct @Wish, golf courses are closing regularly and even more are being neglected due to money loss. A couple years ago you couldn't get a tee time in florida during the winter, and paid more per round. Now you can easily get tee times, much cheaper, and courses in bad condition.

 

Maybe Golf over grew, tho some interest has faded. Coincidentally, I realize as I'm typing.....so has Tiger Woods' game. There needs to be public interest to build a sport. But a player such as Tiger Woods builds the sport also. No coincidence that the game reached a peak when he was at his best, and since his downfall....the popularity of the game has suffered.

[ScottScott]

I used the Golf Channel as an example, but you are correct @Wish, golf courses are closing regularly and even more are being neglected due to money loss. A couple years ago you couldn't get a tee time in florida during the winter, and paid more per round. Now you can easily get tee times, much cheaper, and courses in bad condition.

 

Maybe Golf over grew, tho some interest has faded. Coincidentally, I realize as I'm typing.....so has Tiger Woods' game. There needs to be public interest to build a sport. But a player such as Tiger Woods builds the sport also. No coincidence that the game reached a peak when he was at his best, and since his downfall....the popularity of the game has suffered.

[Stevie Boy]

@escmanaze I understand what you are saying, here in the UK even in the Summer we can have bad Wind and Rain quite a bit, which means good water time is valuable, but we still endeavour to encourage beginners, typically we allow for a visitors slot for every five member slots, but for the Guy,s & Gals in Florida, the conditions are good for most of the time, generally they can ski any day of the week at any time, I have seen a lot of lakes with little or no action mid week, I guess it depends on your location and the facilities available in your area.

How far are people prepared to travel to get on the water ?

How long are they prepared to wait for a slot ?

 

[Stevie Boy]

@escmanaze I understand what you are saying, here in the UK even in the Summer we can have bad Wind and Rain quite a bit, which means good water time is valuable, but we still endeavour to encourage beginners, typically we allow for a visitors slot for every five member slots, but for the Guy,s & Gals in Florida, the conditions are good for most of the time, generally they can ski any day of the week at any time, I have seen a lot of lakes with little or no action mid week, I guess it depends on your location and the facilities available in your area.

How far are people prepared to travel to get on the water ?

How long are they prepared to wait for a slot ?

 

[jcamp]

Do we actually think that any barefooters or kneeboarders are HAPPY that their sports have dropped off even more than 3-event?

 

I doubt it.

 

[jcamp]

Do we actually think that any barefooters or kneeboarders are HAPPY that their sports have dropped off even more than 3-event?

 

I doubt it.

 

[ForrestGump]

If you want to be able to buy boats and skis in the future, yes you do want it to grow. Right now, you are not even replacing what you're losing every year. We didn't complain about waiting for 2-3 people before getting to ski at the local public course back in the 90s.

[ForrestGump]

If you want to be able to buy boats and skis in the future, yes you do want it to grow. Right now, you are not even replacing what you're losing every year. We didn't complain about waiting for 2-3 people before getting to ski at the local public course back in the 90s.

[DanE]

Or wait for the main companys slalom sticks retail for $3000

[DanE]

Or wait for the main companys slalom sticks retail for $3000

[6balls]

What if all of us pledged to do a community education or some such "learn to ski clinic" on a public body of water? Realizing it would have to have a limited number of participants in some of your larger demographic areas but if a whole bunch of us taught 10 people to ski...

We have a course on the public lake I live on as well...I don't use it much I hit "the swamp". Having said that I could do a learn to ski buoys day, too...though not sure in my small demographic there are enough skiers with basic slalom skills to sign up.

[6balls]

What if all of us pledged to do a community education or some such "learn to ski clinic" on a public body of water? Realizing it would have to have a limited number of participants in some of your larger demographic areas but if a whole bunch of us taught 10 people to ski...

We have a course on the public lake I live on as well...I don't use it much I hit "the swamp". Having said that I could do a learn to ski buoys day, too...though not sure in my small demographic there are enough skiers with basic slalom skills to sign up.

[BlueSki]

Fewer skiers equals less political power. First, consider the difficulty of trying to put a course on public water, in Michigan for example, or fight off a new no wake area that encompasses that one good cove. Next, consider the potential for zoning issues for private lakes. With numbers comes power.

[BlueSki]

Fewer skiers equals less political power. First, consider the difficulty of trying to put a course on public water, in Michigan for example, or fight off a new no wake area that encompasses that one good cove. Next, consider the potential for zoning issues for private lakes. With numbers comes power.

[gt2003]

As I mentioned in the Ambassador thread, there seems to almost be a double standard. Yes, grow the sport but not on my lake and not on my time.

[gt2003]

As I mentioned in the Ambassador thread, there seems to almost be a double standard. Yes, grow the sport but not on my lake and not on my time.

[ToddL]

@OB1 and @gt2003 - spot on. That's the issue. Growth, but not at my lake.

Many have said it: The privatization of slalom courses killed growth.

 

Public Access = growth

 

If we compare to golf course model, then...

Every "private" lake needs to allow for non-resident memberships. Golf courses typically allow access to more than just those who's backyards touch the fairways.

We need "private" lakes built with without houses under a membership business model of pay to play. This can be membership and fee per pull. The site provides the water, course, boat, rope, rental gear, pro shop, and lessons.

 

 

[ToddL]

@OB1 and @gt2003 - spot on. That's the issue. Growth, but not at my lake.

Many have said it: The privatization of slalom courses killed growth.

 

Public Access = growth

 

If we compare to golf course model, then...

Every "private" lake needs to allow for non-resident memberships. Golf courses typically allow access to more than just those who's backyards touch the fairways.

We need "private" lakes built with without houses under a membership business model of pay to play. This can be membership and fee per pull. The site provides the water, course, boat, rope, rental gear, pro shop, and lessons.

 

 

[DonT]

@bigskieridaho - I'm not sure on the dynamic of boat shows, but I'm thinking that's up to the individual dealers. But I have to believe it's reflecting the dynamic of the boat purchasing public. Last weekend here in Salt Lake I only saw the new Response TXI - quite often I've seen the Nautique 200 and ProStar there. Hard to generate interest in a boat if people can't "kick the tires" so to speak.

[DonT]

@bigskieridaho - I'm not sure on the dynamic of boat shows, but I'm thinking that's up to the individual dealers. But I have to believe it's reflecting the dynamic of the boat purchasing public. Last weekend here in Salt Lake I only saw the new Response TXI - quite often I've seen the Nautique 200 and ProStar there. Hard to generate interest in a boat if people can't "kick the tires" so to speak.

[ScottScott]

I think the popularity of the sport is reflected at the boat show. Orlando's boat show a couple weeks ago only had ONE ski boat, and it wasn't Nautique.....it was Master Craft. Malibu and Nautique had several wake board boats, but not the ski boat.

 

Another factor effecting water sports in general is opportunity and cost. If the rest of the country geographically was like central florida, with lakes everywhere, more people would be doing it. We see lakes, and people out on boats just about anywhere we drive (work, shopping, etc.) YEAR ROUND. It motivates us to be out on the water. When you have to drive farther/make much more of an effort, and don't see it every day, its hard to get motivated to put in the effort and the money. Its not a cheap sport.....

[ScottScott]

I think the popularity of the sport is reflected at the boat show. Orlando's boat show a couple weeks ago only had ONE ski boat, and it wasn't Nautique.....it was Master Craft. Malibu and Nautique had several wake board boats, but not the ski boat.

 

Another factor effecting water sports in general is opportunity and cost. If the rest of the country geographically was like central florida, with lakes everywhere, more people would be doing it. We see lakes, and people out on boats just about anywhere we drive (work, shopping, etc.) YEAR ROUND. It motivates us to be out on the water. When you have to drive farther/make much more of an effort, and don't see it every day, its hard to get motivated to put in the effort and the money. Its not a cheap sport.....

[Horton]

@gt2003 there is no double standard. What ever bad experience you have had do not paint all the Ballers with your broad brush.

 

You make it sound like if we want more skiers in the sport we need to give free lessons, free skiing and buy you beers afterwards.

 

The sport has access problems & the sport is expensive. There are problems but people who really want to be involved in the sport will find access if they can afford it. Most of us that are deeply embedded in the sport have made that choice.

[Horton]

@gt2003 there is no double standard. What ever bad experience you have had do not paint all the Ballers with your broad brush.

 

You make it sound like if we want more skiers in the sport we need to give free lessons, free skiing and buy you beers afterwards.

 

The sport has access problems & the sport is expensive. There are problems but people who really want to be involved in the sport will find access if they can afford it. Most of us that are deeply embedded in the sport have made that choice.

[gt2003]

@Horton , I'm not painting all ballers with a broad brush, I guess I wasn't clear. I personally haven't had any bad experiences but I have seen some generous ballers who are trying their best to expand the sport run into issues with others living on their lakes who definitely aren't on the same page. I get that to an extent. If I paid tens or hundreds of thousands for a lot, then I'd definitely want my time. I'm saying maybe the conversation needs to be had, at a board meeting or wherever, that if the sport is to grow and prosper and if you want someone to buy your home when (if) you move, maybe there needs to be a little more outpouring of love to those who might be interested. I'm not saying free, free, free and definitely not 24/7 access. If you can't pay for a few sets then this sport isn't for you. I'm just saying provide the periodic opportunity and charge whatever you see fit. Heck, use it for gas, lake/community improvement etc.

As you are aware, I'm still very new to this sport so just providing my thoughts on what might help. Yes, overall access is an issue so we must make the most of the access we already have IF we are truly wanting to grow the sport.

 

Wait, did u say free lessons, skiing and beer, I'm in!

 

 

[gt2003]

@Horton , I'm not painting all ballers with a broad brush, I guess I wasn't clear. I personally haven't had any bad experiences but I have seen some generous ballers who are trying their best to expand the sport run into issues with others living on their lakes who definitely aren't on the same page. I get that to an extent. If I paid tens or hundreds of thousands for a lot, then I'd definitely want my time. I'm saying maybe the conversation needs to be had, at a board meeting or wherever, that if the sport is to grow and prosper and if you want someone to buy your home when (if) you move, maybe there needs to be a little more outpouring of love to those who might be interested. I'm not saying free, free, free and definitely not 24/7 access. If you can't pay for a few sets then this sport isn't for you. I'm just saying provide the periodic opportunity and charge whatever you see fit. Heck, use it for gas, lake/community improvement etc.

As you are aware, I'm still very new to this sport so just providing my thoughts on what might help. Yes, overall access is an issue so we must make the most of the access we already have IF we are truly wanting to grow the sport.

 

Wait, did u say free lessons, skiing and beer, I'm in!

 

 

[skihard]

@horton wth no panda for gt2003? :)

[skihard]

@horton wth no panda for gt2003? :)

[gt2003]

@skihard , don't encourage him!

 

@Horton , Look at his status, "Crazy Baller". Obviously he is a little off kilter!