Perfect Pass

[S1Pitts]

For all those having surging, over speed or other throttle type issues with StarGazer - after tuning a great number of systems in various hulls I have learned that the servo / throttle return spring position/pressure is key to getting a boat that runs up and locks down speed in short order.

I begin by removing the engine cover and having a driver run the boat to identify the throttle position at 30 mph to 36 mph in order to identify the "range of throttle position".

I then move the non throttle arm end mounting point for the add on return spring supplied to have it positioned 90 degrees in relationship to the throttle shaft/spring mounting point on the throttle arm and the final mounting point on the opposite end of the spring. Run up from a hole shot to ski speed and the throttle motion should settle about the same time as the beep emits that target speed was hit. If it continues to hunt looking for set speed then there is not enough spring pull so try shorten the spring a bit and retry. If it improves continue to shorten until you are happy with the results. If it worsens after shortening go the other way by either lengthening the spring or moving the attachment point.

Personally I use a long zip tied looped on the spring attachment point to be able to slowly close the loop effectively tightening the spring. In some cases cutting the spring was required. In most cases spring pull was needed to be increased.

I hope this helps some of you guys out.

KR

[jpattigr]

Hemlock, I updated from 8.06 to 9.0 this spring, boat locks on speed much quicker. Also, starts with skier class (feather to xl option) and then goes to speed. Seems like less clicking through needed and main options that change are presented. Also calibration is super easy with 9.0. Upgrade seems worthwhile, since 8.06 it has worked well for times and holding speed.

[DW]

+1 to @S1Pitts from my experience -and- remember that a spring loses tension over time or more accurately # of cycles.

[Dacon62]

@S1Pitts...pictures??

Having issues as well with over/under speeding and it settling in. Have installed a pretty heavy duty additional spring which helps but is still not locking in.

Usually run in RPM mode because too frustrating in Slalom mode.

Have 8.06 version of Wakeboard Pro Stargazer.

[S1Pitts]

 

@Dacon62 Boat is an hr away sorry. I attached a quick sketch of my grade school drawing skills so hope you can get what I mean. The best way to visualize this is to be looking at the end of the throttle shaft - represented by the intersecting lines. The attachment point of the spring keeps it square to the average of your chosen speed range. I use 30-36 as a rule. This keeps the spring rate closer to being linear. Depending on the engine / throttle lever combination this can get challenging. I have in some cases tossed the supplied spring in favor of a shorter but stronger spring and had to make spring mounts to anchor to. I also keep the spring out board of the throttle lever as much as possible.

KR

[Dacon62]

@S1Pitts...get it, thanks. Will check it out next time I am out. It sucks that this is so sensitive to position. Last boat I owned had Zero Off. Argh...this is like listening to an 8 track when you're use to a CD.

[TallSkinnyGuy]

FYI, I just ordered my upgrade stick for v9 and upgrading from v8.06 was only $50 plus shipping. I don't know if the pricing is different if you are starting from another version because I only asked for the price to upgrade from my version. But, even a small improvement in finding the set speed faster is worth $50 to me.

[hemlock]

Thanks @TallSkinnyGuy.

Good to know. I was hesitant to pay $150 US for the upgrade, (i'm at 8.005) but that price seams way more reasonable.

Notice any differences so far?

 

[mtlskier]

A couple of weeks ago I installed stargazer wake edition in my 2004 response lx, and like others I found the pull through the course inconsistent using simple slalom mode. After reading these forums I contacted perfect pass, and for 65$ (canadian) they sent me an upgrade stick for 3-event v9. After calibrating the speeds and mapping the course I found the pull much more consistent. My driver also noticed a big difference compared to simple slalom mode.

 

In GPS slalom monde, is it normal that the boat runs faster than the set speed getting into the course? My driver told me we were holding steady at around 32.6 mph before I started pulling, but my times through the course were pretty accurate each time (within a few milliseconds). I read somewhere that perfect pass usually comes in quick before slowing down from the skier's pull but I wasn't sure if that was only for the older versions. Thanks!

[TallSkinnyGuy]

@hemlock I literally just ordered it -- I don't expect it to arrive until next week, just before I head out for a 2-week family road trip. So, I won't get to install it and test it until early August.

[Bill22]

@mtlskier I believe you are correct that PP will come into 1 ball a little hot. You can adjust back ground settings to reduce speed from gates to 1 ball (also settings for 1-3 ball & 3-6 ball). There are instructions in the back of the manual on how to do this. You probably should email PP tech support before making any big changes.

[mtlskier]

Thanks @Bill22 I'll look at my times this weekend and see if any changes need to be made

[GAJ0004]

I had the first version of Perfect Pass Stargazer(2008) in my boat. I had to replace the whole master module since it quit. After I got version 9 set up it ran fine most of the time. I had a few issues of it surging at ball 2 and 3 pulling a bigger skier. I only have 240HP in my boat so I recalibrated the base lines with the crew weight set on zero with me alone in the boat. I think I have solved the problem. I set the crew weight 150 pounds above the actual crew weight and so far it has solved the problem, and I am getting good course times with no surging.

 

[sgregg]

Just upgraded from Version 8.06 to Version 9.01 - could not be more satisfied. Our boat was already pretty dialed in with Version 8.06 but 9.01 locks speed in more quickly/smoothly and helps on our short setup - no RPM surging/hunting issues - simply rock solid speed control ('98 SN, Stargazer/ZBox)

 

Absolutely outstanding customer service from Perfect Pass...Mark tailored my upgrade so the software would include support for Smart Timer/Magnet timing - very nice backup feature to have available in case a GPS puck dies and your course has magnets

 

Highly recommend the upgrade!

[rockdog]

If I order a Z-box, presuming it will come with V9 for the Stargazer as well? It's not a separate purchase?

[Jmoski]

@rockdog - I believe to upgrade the software they charge $150 to bring you up to V9 via a thumb drive, this is separate from the Zbox cost.

[rockdog]

Carol at PP just confirmed v9 is inclusive in a ZBox purchase - which make sense to me.

 

[escmanaze]

Dangit all you guys saying nice things about version 9 is going to end up costing me $150. I hope you feel good about yourselves. ;)

 

[TallSkinnyGuy]

@escmanaze I paid a lower price to upgrade from v8.06, so you may not have to pay the full $150 upgrade price depending on your current version. However, after using v9 for most of this season now I think I would have been willing to pay the $150. My biggest complaint of v8.06 (with my mechanical throttle and EFI engine) was that it would overshoot the speed and take too long to get back down to the set speed. This year's v9 is substantially better at settling in at the set speed, which makes driving a lot easier.

[powbmps]

I have been using v8.06 in an 03 Response and just upgraded to v9. Same experience as TallSkinnyGuy. Locks on to the set speed much quicker. Don't have to worry about over-throttling. Just hammer down. Can't comment on feel in the course, as we only free-ski.

 

Also, PP service is top notch. I have had plenty of dumb questions, and they are always very helpful.

[escmanaze]

@TallSkinnyGuy @powbmps Well that is actually exactly my complaint right now too. On the one course where we have a ton of room to setup, all the guys in the club look at me funny as I start out about 3 times as far away from the course as they do. On the courses where we don't have a long setup, I just pretty much plan on that boat speed still being quite variable the whole way through the course, and that kinda sucks. Getting that thing to settle down quicker would be a wonderful thing indeed. Now I guess I'll just have to talk to them to see if they feel like budging on that price at all. Fingers crossed.

[Dacon62]

My unit works OK in RPM mode but not usable in Slalom Mode. It is a Wakeboard Pro Stargazer 8.06 edition. And yes I have done all the recommended servo, etc. tests. Slalom mode over and undershoots way too much even without a skier. Even in RPM mode I get what @escmanaze is saying. At the short set up end of the lake boat comes in hot and not settled yet then is slowing down as you round one ball giving you massive slack and ruining your pass. Not a problem at other end were we can run out further and give Boat more time to settle into the speed.

Talked to Mark at PP. Very helpful. Sent the box and puck in for a check and to reflash with ver. 9.0 today.

He asked if the any of unit or wiring ran near my depth finder. Guessing that may disrupt the signal? May have to reroute the wire from puck to box.

Also has anyone had the unit just cut out and the boat come to a stop?

Thinking the 3 times that happened this year the boat had been sitting in the heat of the day. Maybe something overheated and signal was lost?

Should know more soon once the tests are run by PP factory.

 

[escmanaze]

@Dacon62 Just this last saturday I had the boat just come to a stop. From all I can tell, it was because it suddenly lost GPS data. I have had 2 or 3 other times this year where I have lost GPS data - this was the only one that happened while I was driving. All have been since July, early season everything was fine.

 

[colo_skier]

We had a boat here at the lake that if you took off before GPS lock then the speed was all messed up. Never had the boat stop because of no GPS data. I thought the GPS data was used by PP to help control the speed not actually turn off the engine or the boat come to a stop.

[VONMAN]

I installed Wakeboard Pro Stargazer 8.06 edition in my 92 Ski Centurion Warrior. 200hp Merc Pro S/X outboard. (I know its not made for a outboard) Mapped the course and it works perfect. Good speed set, no surging, end course times +/- .02 Max. Boat holds speed and load and that great Perfect Pass pull we all remember. No problems at all

[Dacon62]

Is mapping the course critical to get PP to work well?

[TallSkinnyGuy]

I set up and take down a portable course each day I use it, so the course is never in exactly the same spot. I initially would map the course and was getting good times. I then got tired of mapping the course each time and stopped doing it. I have actually never mapped the course since getting the v9 upgrade, but I can confirm that v9 does a significantly better job of not overshooting the speed (and settling in at the correct speed) much quicker than v8 without mapping the course.

[colo_skier]

@Dacon62 I believe that if you have magnets and don't use GPS mode then mapping is not needed The mapping is there to tell PP in GPS mode were the start of the course is for each direction. If you go through the gates at a angle such that you don't go through the course PP GPS will infer a course along the straight line you are travelling. Try it if your lake is wide enough you will get 6 beeps and then OK for the perfect time without going through the course. If you use PP classic I don't believe GPS comes into play. It is hard for me to verify as we have magnets in the course for the other boats that don't have GPS type systems and classic uses these.

[Monkstr6100]

If anyone is upgrading from pro 6.5ng to stargazer with the new update please let me know. I may be interested in your gauge/display. Mine is starting to fade more and more often, and perfect pass, who admit that display was junk, say they stopped making the upgraded replacement and for the low cost of about $750 I could get a new display and stargazer. ONLY option I was told. Not cool.

[m_pags]

Just updated an 03' Malibu from SG Wake Edition to 3 Event v9. It's so much better. No more over shooting like @TallSkinnyGuy said and not at all sensitive to how you throttle up.

[Killer]

Thought this would be a good thread to resurrect. I have an 01 Nautique W/ GT40 and new PP9 w/zbox. Was super easy to get setup and I am seeing times at all buoys no more than .02 from perfect and +/- .02 at end course, skier, no skier and different speeds.

 

My issue is the boat feels excessively strong and I'm having difficulty running my easier passes. I'm used to skiing new ZO boats in the course so not sure what's going on.

 

I've tried using lighter skier weight and that has minimal effect.

 

Anyone able to share some changes they may have made in the background settings? I'm at all factory values right now.

[BraceMaker]

Try lower skier weight cat. L VS n. Or in background go KX -

[alex38]

Just upgraded mine today from v7.0.62 to v9.12. 2002 nautique cb 5.0 275 hp (rare smaller engine)

Skiis like a different boat now. Set it up out of the box and tried it-first pass felt light years better driver noted huge difference too.

Completely better feel all the way around those with any issues I know PP will support, I think this is a solidly improved product. Better than I thought it would be.

[gt2003]

@alex38 , I did the same thing about a week ago (same versions but without Z-box). HUGE difference! No surging up and down hunting like it used to. I forgot to do the course run set to "no skier" but will do that next time out. I felt some small speed variance in the course so may have to adjust the background settings. GREAT UPGRADE if you are looking for more consistency for PP!

[keithh2oskier]

@alex38 I have the exact same boat/engine combo and have v7.0.64 with no z-box. I have been having some issues with the boat settling in. I dropped the Cal RPMs by about 200 in the middle of a set last weekend and that seemed to help. I havent been skiing much and its been pretty windy so my skiing is awful right now. What exactly did the new software do?

 

Do you have Zbox or just the software upgrade?

[BraceMaker]

Fyi PP will likely get you the upgrade for the cost of shipping.

[alex38]

@keithh2oskier

No Zbox, upgraded to v9.12 with download stick.

 

Upgrade simplifies (which is important) by eliminating magnets and in course calibration with autocal and course mapping

 

Seems the software has just been improved to have boat settle in with no yo yoing around rpms which means to me it felt softer at the gate, waaaay more consistent pass to pass.

 

Was so great to set it up out of the box, FOLLOW the instructions step by step and have the very first pass be lights out better than the boat has ever run

 

Just get it. I could get v7.0.62 dialed ...until a new driver would come along then it was back to square one.

 

Driver was just as pleasantly surprised told me he was purposely overthrottling to see what it would do-I couldn’t tell

 

Went 22, 22, 28, 28, 32 easy right out of the box and I’m tired and not skiing my best yet

 

Just order it

 

 

 

[alex38]

Put it this way: was looking at a boat with ZO for 25k, now I’m not, I saved 24,850 dollars.

[keithh2oskier]

Awesome thanks. I have been on the fence on ordering Zbox but haven't been skiing much so may just get the upgrade stick. I just installed the SG from a buddy who sold his Nautique so were still getting used to it.

[Bill22]

PP Rev. 9 is worth every penny. With 8 I would feel the boat slow down to set speed right when I was ready to turn in.

[alex38]

@Dacon62

You may need to change your rpm setting to inverted, and with v9 you have to map the course. Mine was all over the place the first time I drove it then I remembered about changing rpms to inverted-this solves the problem.

[Bill22]

@Dacon62 is your boat a Malibu. It seems like more Malibu guys talk about the invert RPM setting. I need to check to see if my RPMs are steady.

[Dacon62]

Yes it is a 2001 Malibu Response with the 325 EFI Monsoon.

Have version 9 now and installed a new cable. Big difference!

Have not mapped the course or inverted the RPM’s.

Will talk to PP next week when on the water. Changes so far have improved things but still not happy in Slalom mode. Am still running in RPM mode.

If I over throttle a bit it takes too long to settle in so have to be very fussy about throttle position. Also engine rpms jumping around causing excessive pull and slack at varying points through the course.

[Bill22]

Ok...re-post... I meant to ask,

@alex38 is your boat a Malibu? You said the invert worked better for you.

 

@Dacon62 we have the same engine, you have the CB and mine is Lx.

[alex38]

2002 nautique with 5.0 pro sport. Setting rpm to inverted is night and day difference, does not run right at all set to standard.

[skiboyny]

@Dacon62 There is a easy test to see if you need to invert. It's in the manual, If memory serves you just hold a steady 2100 rpm or something like that. You need to map the course if you want to find out what's going on really. The ball times are there when you hit the down arrow after the pass. They need to be within a couple of thousandths or it wont feel right. Learn to feather the throttle at pull up. I bring my boat up to 3200 rpm and hold it around there until I'm running straight in front of the 55s. (for a 34mph pass)Than I push it down until the system engages. That give the best results for me. It sounds like a pain but once your used to doing it, it's pretty second nature.

[Keith_Menard]

Is there any reason to call about 9.0 to 9.12 or whatever it is now?

[BraceMaker]

9.12 in my opinion is world's better. New slalom modes, GPS slalom, practice, rpm, basic slalom. Easier time calibrations in Autocal. Locks in faster - with 8 you had to sneak in I now can essentially hammer in with no pogo. I still try to engage smoothly to make sure it's at speed early for the skier but it won't overshoot the set speed hardly at all and it hasn't dropped off on anyone yet. I'd instantly switch if the basic troubleshooting like invert and return springs didn't fix it. And would still update if you have trouble with engagement.

[Joeprunc]

I've got V9 coming my way, I hope this makes driving our course easier for the "newer" boat drivers.

[Steven_Haines]

V9 is worth every penny. You will probably need to mess with it, but it’s worth the time spent.