Conditions at Worlds

[Horton]

@MillerTime38 do potentially random or unpredictable conditions sway your opinion?

[ntx]

@GaryWilkinson look into what is required of the site (host) to get a tournament like this. Very few are willing to make the financial commitment. My guess is it cost the host several tens of thousand of dollars. Maybe things will change with the new iwwf change in leadership. No more French wine required to host the event.

[MillerTime38]

@Horton probably not. if it was potentially random or unpredictable conditions for everyone than I think that still fits the definition of fair.

 

It is unfortunate that some skiers did not ski as well as others but there is a difference between fair and unfortunate in my mind.

[Than_Bogan]

I have moved off the fence.

 

But HUGE CONGRATS to Freddie (and his legion of new female fans I'm assuming that picture brought him)!!

[freeski41]

I'm really surprised on how many people are saying the conditions are the same for everyone? Based on what has been reported, they don't seem to be the same for everyone. This is Worlds man! This isn't just another tournament.

[ISP6ball]

You can't create the same "random and unpredictable" conditions for everyone. Some will be more severe than others. More importantly, those random and unpredictable conditions can hit skiers at different points in the course. Somebody on edge across the course will get through those conditions better than somebody that is experiencing those through the turns. It's very unfortunate for all the skiers involved.

 

Freddie is a machine though, and very happy for his results.

[Horton]

@MillerTime38

l appreciate your consistency.

[bishop8950]

"Tough" conditions like Moomba are fine especially when it's a pro event with thousands of spectators. But for a world championship these conditions do not meet the minimum threshold for an event (like @Than_Bogan said) for these athletes to compete in the sport they train for. It sounds like the conditions would not be acceptable even if it were a pro event with thousands of people.

 

The random conditions make it more like gambling than skiing. That's my problem with it. And it's not a calculated gamble, just random luck.

 

It so different it would be like making everyone ski with a bunge cord tow line, or use Boston Whalers as tow boats and let people who have never been in a boat drive. Why not? "it would be the same for all"

[MillerTime38]

Funny thing I have not heard any skiers complaining about anything just people on the internet crying about conditions.

[APB]

i dont think youll see any athletes speaking out until after the event. interested to see. bad site, little to no spectators.

 

[MillerTime38]

So Fred winter Asher and j-mac is a dispointing podium?

[eleeski]

A site with variable weather is not an "insult". A site where in a World tournament a skier can get into the world record pass (Regina in France) is not an "insult". A site where the #2 skier in the world wins in his home time zone is not an "insult".

 

OK, maybe it isn't the best site for conditions. How Okeheelee has dodged the hurricanes and tropical storms to be one of the premier host sites is magic. I love Okeheelee but I'm nervous every time I plan a trip there. I also love skiing at Sand Island in Hawaii. Horrible rollers and wind but always fun skiing - and a bit of an extra challenge. Regionals at Imperial were great - and we enjoyed a cool spell with highs only 110f. An advantage for desert skiers? There was frost on the ground at Regionals in Washington. Really? So unfair. It's an outdoor sport with roots on public water. Conditions are part of the game.

 

What is unfair would be to host a major tournament at my site which couldn't accommodate a long jump.

 

Eric

 

[MillerTime38]

@ISP6ball every skier has the same chances of getting bad conditions. Bad luck is not the same thing as unfair

[Glydon]

@MillerTime38 makes total sense to me , two Brits and a Canadian all used to skiing in adverse conditions AND cold temps. I have watched and can totally see some "disastrous" results for some of the top pro's. Like the pro's they are, I doubt you will hear any complaints from them.

[JackQ]

Clarification for those who not have significant tournament experience at Nationals, Regionals, etc. There is significant difference between competition at a site with wind & chop where everyone does have similar conditions and in my mind is fair, but difficult. In contrast, a site that has rollers and random conditions, a skier that gets rollers at a turn is likely out, the skier who hits the roller during their pull or early in the pre-turn is likely to be OK. Big difference between poor conditions and random conditions cause by backwash where it is random.

[MillerTime38]

@JackQ plenty of experience here no need for clarification. Quit crying and ski

[JackQ]

Don't need to be a SmartA...! I am not crying just stating my experience. For the last 18 of 20 years I have been skiing in salt water of the Chesapeake Bay, I have more crappy skiing experience that almost anyone. I always believe I have a competive advantage when the conditions are poor. Easy to say everyone should suck it up, it's another to actually do it.

[ISP6ball]

"Every skier has the same chance of getting bad conditions."

 

You're correct Miller.......it's left up to "chance."

 

That's unfortunate......

[GaryWilkinson]

I believe if you were to ask every one of the competitors a version of this same poll worded to get their preference on if they'd like a site that is less than ideal, probably not going to serve up any PB and may dump some champions early, versus pristine conditions where the water is consistent, no, or at least greatly dimished chances of chop and backwash and that allows each skier to reach their potential,...

I'm confident they'd go for good and consistent conditions.

 

I have a fistful of medals where I beat national champions in sketchy conditions. These dont mean near as much to me as those I won where we all skied close to or beyond personal bests.

 

In my humble opinion, I'm believe the winners of this years worlds would agree.

[MillerTime38]

@GaryWilkinson no one argues that people would rather ski in ideal conditions, but just because conditions were sketchy a bunch of people who didn't attend or ski the event are upset about the conditions and crying about how unfair things were. Get over it and practice in choppy water

[MillerTime38]

@JackQ not being a smart A, old school like you ski where ever when every. See you next week at Victory

[GaryWilkinson]

@MillerTime38 I ski on a large Canadian lake in FAR from ideal conditions. In fact I was in chop today, in a dry suit, with 8° C air temp. And I had my best set of the summer this morning. But I digress.

 

I guess where I'm going is that I heard from a coach privately, and saw Freddy's FB post talking about how bad and inconsistent the conditions were, which included backwash! Backwash is not the same for everyone. Dependant on which way you want to take your "money pass" because of the wind chop, you may have backwash in the course or not. Different parts of the slalom course may have different levels of backwash for different athletes based on where recovery boats, starting docks and where the wind is blowing from at that moment. I've even seen b-wash from advertisers signage buoys at major events that were moved based on the time of day!

 

I guess my major point is that we're better than this.

Sites are better than this

Our sport Deserves better than this!

The athletes that train for 2 frigging years! deserve better than this.

 

And I guess I could lump it all together but our sport has evolved way beyond skiing in frigid temps on large public lakes with no protection and significant chance of chop on the water.

 

Ya gotta think there are many more sites ready to host with great conditions and athletes can hit their mark and shine to their potential.

[scotty_alz]

Not sure what crowds or spectators were like but if you look at scores for finals they put up big scores and everyone Down to 9th place in the finals ran 38. Freddie ran 39 sounds like a pro tournament to me. Anywhere you ski in September you have to imagine conditions may be variable. If you want to grow this sport stop complaining and go out and ski put up the best score you can today and be happy with it. This is how we moved from public lakes with spectators. To a Sport only a few can afford ski schools boats equipment and then you must know somebody or have a private lake with trees and a gate to keep out the public or Wally skiers. Why do you think the boardstock in 06 never happened again the skiers probably didnt ski to there level or it was to rolly not enough prize money for bad conditions. I'm sure the excuses keep going but In 06 that was every big name in slalom hanging out at a wakeboard event getting exposure and showing people that don't ski what a course is. No conditions at worlds weren't ideal maybe a few more pros should have watched conditions in France over the last two years and trained in more wind. From the sounds of it the lake wasnt dug last month. In any other sport they would call that unprepared or underpracticed we call it a lake the event never should have never skied on. We sound like Shaun white after losing the olympics in Russia. When you train in perfect conditions daily it's hard when you have to come down to everyone else's level and ski in crap. Kinda funny how rookies or people with less experience won there events. I.e. Freddie winter neilly Ross. congrats to everyone that's happy with there worlds performance. Everyone else you got two years to learn how to ski In Rollers and wind.

[John Brooks]

I'm thinking about some of the big name golf tournaments, where they adjust conditions to make the courses more difficult, such as the US Open. They seem to adjust the length of the grass in the rough and on the greens, add to that difficult pin placements and then of course the uncontrollable elements of wind, rain, ect..

 

Do any of you think there is any contrast to this and the challenges of tough conditions at a waterski tournament?

 

I certainly enjoy skiers running short line slalom passes, but I more enjoy the unpredictable nature of tough conditions, the uncertain outcomes and looking to athletes to manage the situation. I realize they all train hard for these events, but it seems they need to also consider adjusting their training to account for a variety of conditions. I think it is good to see less than perfect water conditions and see who can adapt.

[LLUSA]

@Eric Francois there were no other bids, the amount of money and requirements IWWF requires eliminates a lot of sites. I know first hand ie. the World Games is very expensive and it weren't for the city of Birmingham paying for everything we wouldn't be doing it

[jcamp]

After seeing the scores from this tournament I'd probably change my vote. I think we are lucky that Worlds still draws an elite field considering there is no cash prize offered. If we want the top skiers to continue to come to Worlds, then we owe it to them to at least offer conditions that won't leave two years worth of training and sacrifice up to random chance (i.e., will I or won't I hit a role at two ball?).

[gsm_peter]

According to my knowledge.

-The site is a rowing stadium.

-There was only one bidder for the competition.

[Drago]

Wait! I change my vote to a write-in: The prize money is ridiculous and it is an insult to the skiers

[ToddF]

 

 

I guess the PGA should move the British open. random gusts of wind

Take Eugene out of the US nationals and Olympic trials. It randomly gets rainy and windy

Cancel December games at Lambeau. It gets randomly gets cold and snowy

And heaven forbid move Wimbledon to an indoor facility. it randomly rains and gets muddy.

 

Did they do a good job of hosting the event? Was it well run? I haven't heard anything regarding that matter, was it spectator friendly? Did people show up to watch?

 

What do we want? spectators and fun events to promote the sport, or ideal conditions?

Sometimes we get both sometimes we don't.

 

Should Worlds first and foremost should be an event to garner and promote interest in the sport?

or

Should Worlds first and foremost be an event for ideal conditions?

I guess figure that one out first before you pick a location.

 

By the way! Great job to all competitors for winning the now infamous 2017 world championships and now being crowned the toughest skiers on the planet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ISP6ball]

It's more like taking a professional bowling tournament, and deciding to put random bumps in the lanes at the last minute...... :)

[Horton]

Would it be fair if the water conditions were perfect and there was no wind but the drivers had four or five beers before they got in the driver seat?

[Boo]

I arrived at the World's Tuesday afternoon. From watching and talking to skiers it appeared conditions generally sucked. Our skiers can handle wind, rain, and cold but backwash from the concrete side made things super tough. Conditions appeared to vary greatly from skier to skier from bad to worse.

The site was not spectator friendly. I learned quickly to bring my own toilet paper. There was one concession stand which was great if u liked your burger rare. The line for food on the weekend was long long. The rain and wind made watching miserable. I can only imagine what it felt like on the starting dock. Miserable I'm sure but again i suspect skiers can adjust to these conditions more so than the backwash. I watched skier after skier miss the 11.25 line. I have to say it was not boring but I feel so sad for skiers who prepared so hard and so long who went down early.

Until the weekend we had minimal spectators. During the week children from local schools were in attendance. I had a fairly long hike to get to the ski area but that was OK. It would have been nice if the site had a tent for the spectators when it rained. Getting soaked was not fun. Regardless I am so happy to have been there and huge congrats to all of the skiers who placed.

[UWSkier]

Inspiration from @Boo

 

 

[keithh2oskier]

Seems everyone is focused on the rollers and how its not fair that some skiers get it and some don't (or worse or different spots). Is it an issue with the drivers giving longer wait times between passed to some skiers as opposed to others?

 

In my opinion the lake will give fixed rollers at a certain point. My site does it at one ball because of shore erosion. You always get them unless you wait. Unless the shore is eroding throughout the day or there is something else causing the rollers it theoretically would be about the same for every skier.

 

I am not saying it wouldn't suck to go down on your opener or -35 for Nate but I still don't see how everyone else didn't ski in essentially the same conditions unless there was favoritism to certain athletes to allow for the conditions to be slightly better.

 

I am sure folks have skied in an event before you were impacted one way or another due to the placement in the running order. Maybe the glare hit you because you skier early in the round. Maybe the wind picks up right after your ski ride. Is that fair?

[MillerTime38]

@Horton that would not be fair, I am a way better driver after 5 beers

[ozski]

So now we are working our way towards some common ground with the beer which should be distributed to the skiers and drivers if conditions are deemed to be sub standard.

[Stathis Ventouris]

Totally agree that skiers deserve better conditions but in the end they need to adapt to the weather and site conditions and do their best to win. Conditions were bad,however Nate (as he stated) missed the handle in the final and Manon's fall, to me, it looked like a pre-release of the binding (I have seen it happening many times - I am using the same binding system for the last 5 years and fortunately had never experienced a pre-release)

[Triplett]

Like everyone has said, we sacrifice conditions for spectators. But if you think back the Pro Tour was at terrible places but the skiers had to deal with it. If I remember right, Jodi Fisher told me of a time they skied in China for a pro event and they had 2 foot waves. The world championships are not about high scores, they are about competition. It is no surprise to me there were Two Brits (Freddy, Will) and JMac on the podium. British skiers grew up in the worst conditions and skied in everything. Jason practices on open water during the summer, probably not the best conditions out there either. Andy Mapple would ski in anything and he was dominate. You train in the terrible stuff to succeed in events like we saw at Worlds.

[BraceMaker]

If only there were a nice portable wave elimination device... So many cities have nice sized rowing sites that would be great sites. Obviously Milwaukee.

 

Chicago has Lincoln Park lagoon

 

Grand River etc.

 

 

[Nando]

For what's supposed to be the most prestigious tournament in the world (maybe after the Masters, and maybe after Moomba, both of which don't have the greatest conditions), a suitable site should be a requirement. So, for a curious guy from South Canada, just how cold was it? Regina looks like it's the middle of winter in her interview...

[dbressel]

I guess it is fair for all competitors; but I would like to see a snow ski downhill event held in 85 to 90 degree weather, perhaps the skiers will put on bathing suits before their event and then put on their snow ski gear.